what patch? TBC outland

We are aware of the release order that happened on retail. It's readily available information. If releases aren't following the same exact model as retail, it isn't from not knowing it. It could very well be an intentional choice to bolster PvP activity, which is fine when taken into consideration that no one is forced or required to have such gear if they want to stick fully to PvE. If anything, the only "imbalance" could be that less PvPers will feel the need to temporarily do PvE content, but there's enough population to complete PvE content without having to rely on PvPers doing it.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

We are aware of the release order that happened on retail. It's readily available information. If releases aren't following the same exact model as retail, it isn't from not knowing it. It could very well be an intentional choice to bolster PvP activity, which is fine when taken into consideration that no one is forced or required to have such gear if they want to stick fully to PvE. If anything, the only "imbalance" could be that less PvPers will feel the need to temporarily do PvE content, but there's enough population to complete PvE content without having to rely on PvPers doing it.

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I do see the point in Spraynerds post.

PvE players would have to do more PvP, since PvP players can come to a raid with 0 experience in raids and out scale the serious raiders.
Therefore the top PvE players will be forced to do PvP content to compete in the top bracket of Raiding.

Or just dont take S3 item to do a fair progress as the items from the shop. Its really simple to do a fair progress w/o using these items. I dont get the point of using free stuff to do a content that was realased 10 years ago...

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Originally Posted by Antiblood

I do see the point in Spraynerds post.

PvE players would have to do more PvP, since PvP players can come to a raid with 0 experience in raids and out scale the serious raiders.
Therefore the top PvE players will be forced to do PvP content to compete in the top bracket of Raiding.

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It's a point that has many gaping holes, though.

1. This imbalance in gear as he himself points out always has happened. The sole difference is the direction it's going in our implementation. Instead of PvPers being forced to go into PvE for some gear upgrades, the opposite is happening;

2. In Blizzard's scenario what you describe happens, since strict PvPers would be actually forced to go do PvE content they don't know or care about as PvP is actually competitive and any gear advantage helps winning. They simply want the gear, not to learn raids and boss rotations. In our implementation the PvPers who end up doing PvE content are much more likely to be those who enjoy both aspects and have interest in completing raids and such, not simply getting gear and not coming back. That potentially increases the PvE quality of those PvPers;

3. On the other hand, PvErs are simply fighting against mechanics. With content not scaling based on the average iLevel of the players in the raid, more gear ranges from a little extra insurance to overkill. The better gear available in PvP content is by no means a necessity or a requirement. As Pasloindetoi points out, this is extra gear that wasn't available at first to do the current PvE content, which means it's perfectly completable without it being a deal breaker;

4. If you want to go into "top bracket" competitive, this just adds another layer of competitiveness to it. Yes, those few will force themselves to do some PvP to get the best they can have, they will have to go a bit out of their comfort zone if they want to have every single possible edge, but then again, that's nothing besides the inverse of what would happen otherwise, with PvPers having to do that for the better gear in their preferred content;

5. If a guild doesn't cares about getting the extra gear, but still wants to be "top bracket," I'm sure there are bragging rights to be had for completing that content in a "pure" state, with just the gear that would have been available at the same point in retail.