Printable View
I put all the gear from my post into Rawr and band of twin valkyr shows way below juggernaut band. I supose its because you lose every other stat just for 500 armor. I even had to scroll down to see it, its behind multiple iterations of juggernaut band and ashen veredit ring with different gems.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnOriginal
Blue is survival, Red mitigation and Yellow threat
https://i.imgur.com/bKgbyTY.png
I would go with VDW25>ONY25>TOC10HC on fights with a lot of physical damage dealt. Keep in mind the additional ~2.4k "mitigation" is all avoidance, and depending on the fight you can consider it completely worthless as a stat, the blue bar is what you are interested in in Rawr.
Really just depends on the encounter and your raid group IMHO. If you have questionable healers and they have trouble keeping you topped off, the extra avoidance will definitely come in handy. However if you have good healers (which should be the assumption), then you basically want to go full armor/stam.
Ashen Ring proc is completely unreliable and the stats are weighted with the proc in mind. Unlike trinkets with procs at 35% health which (usually) have a more noticeable benefit, it can proc when you don't need it to. So any ring with comparable stamina and +armor is going to be better.
Gearscore mentalities like this have no place in tanking. Juggernaut Band has more stat budget, that's why it shows up higher in Rawr. In reality, all of that stat budget is just strength and avoidance, two things completely irrelevant to ICC tanks. If you actually bother to compare the stats that matter, aka the blue bar, you see that Band of the Twin Val'kyr is superior.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaixzElder
I dont see how block ratting and the chance to completely avoid dmg are irrelevant to a tank but alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnOriginal
Im showing numeric proof of why the twin valkyr band is good but not the best (and only by a small margin) so I dont know where the gearscore mentallity comes from. Saying that avoidance is meaningless to a tank is very far from the truth, even the T104P gives dodge chance for a short time
"the chance to completely avoid dmg" - this mentality is so flawed I don't know where to begin.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaixzElder
You also completely contradicted yourself with your "numeric proof", as the blue segment of the bar (the part that matters) is higher on Loop than Band, meaning it is objectively superior for EHP.
Avoidance is a gimmick. It is pure RNG, its only benefit is slightly reducing the stress on your healers in certain situations. Since you will have good healers in HC raids (which is what I assume you are aiming for with a BIS tank), avoidance can be ignored entirely.
Gearing for avoidance or threat over EH is a waste of stats. The only thing you're showing is that it's numerically the best EH ring on bosses that have melee attacks, that's why it's just a better Juggernaut Band. On magic heavy fights Signified Ring of Binding > Juggernaut Band. In what encounter would Juggernaut Band perform better than the previously mentioned two rings swapped out accordingly? None because it offers inferior EH on both magic/physical fights and no secondary stats that can be used to get more EH from the rest of your gear like hit or expertise. It's your 4th or 5th choice at best and that is far from BiS.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaixzElder
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaixzElder
When I can counter your points with your own points, it's time to reassess what you're even trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaixzElder
It actually puts more stress on your healers. An avoidance geared tank takes less hits but each hit is proportionally a bigger percentage of his health. That means that healers are under more stress to top the tank asap as soon as he takes a hit as there is now a chance that he might die in the next few seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme
That isn't true. Even though you are taking slightly less damage per hit, you are still costing healers mana/gcds, which they may have been able to use on another player.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnOriginal
It is admittedly an extremely negligible effect, however that is what I am referring to by reducing stress on your healers. It isn't a factor that should be considered for HC raiding, since you will expect to be topped off for most of the fight.
How are you costing them more mana/gcds when the optimal way to heal the tank is to proactively spam holy light on him regardless of hp? Do you think paladins sit there and wait for the tank to take damage before healing him and risking their next heal not to be in time? No, this is Wotlk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme
Are you intentionally being dense? Or do you often have trash healers in your HC raids? I specifically stated it helps when the healers are questionable and not useful in HC raiding situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnOriginal
Also I play every healer under the sun and have done since late-TBC.
Yep. Except the purple gem you use to activate your meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by haythamkalid10
My recommendations would be the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by haythamkalid10
Tankiness Build:
Helm: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51266
Neck: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50682
Shoulders: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51269
Cape: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50718
Chest: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51265
Wrists: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51901
Weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50708
Shield: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50729
Libram: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45145
Hands: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51267
Belt: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50991
Legs: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49904
Boots: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=54579
Ring 1: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50404
Ring 2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50622
Trinket 1: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47451
Trinket 2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50364
- Armour-heavy build I like to use on LoD. Uses every armour piece apart from Ring and Cape (and trinks). Rep Ring and BPC 25hc cloak are used for their Hit. Hit Rating Food allows you to drop the BPC cloak or Rep Ring and instead pick up either the Armour cloak from EoF, or the ToC 10hc ring.
- Expertise is really low. Unless the boss parry hastes, expertise is purely a threat stat. This build eschews expertise as much as possible in favour of EH/Avoidance
- Features 4p bonus
- Last Word with Blood Draining is the weapon of choice. For a guaranteed taunt land, I swap to a Bloodvenom Blade with a +25 hit +25 crit enchant on it. BVB in conjunction with the Rep Ring and BPC cloak provide enough hit rating.to ensure your taunt always lands if it's glyphed (helpful on Raging Spirits).
- Libram of the Sacred Shield is used. A very large percentage of the hits you take that don't get parried/dodged/miss end up blocked. 450 Block Value is better than 219 dodge rating for similiar reasons that that EHP is emphasized over avoidance in building your toon. Libram of Valiance is used in situations where more aggro is needed (transition phases).
Expertise/General purpose build:
Helm: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51266
Neck: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50682
Shoulders: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51269
Cape: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50718
Chest: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50968
Wrists: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51901
Weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50738
Shield: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50729
Libram: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45145
Hands: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51267
Belt: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50991
Legs: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49904
Boots: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50625
Ring 1: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50404
Ring 2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50622
Trinket 1: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47451
Trinket 2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50364
- Same thing apart from Chest, Boots, and Weapon. Expertise alternatives are used for those instead.
- This build features 39 Expertise (before the Seal of Vengeance glyph and any Expertise food/gems)
- Useful for parry haste bosses, as well as for casual, non-optimized runs where threat might be an issue because of some unruly DPS, since the threat this does is pretty high by virtue of all that Expertise.
Few other notes:
- I generally favour double Stam trinkets, especially on Halion and LK. Both those fights often emphasize spell EH. Sindy trink is absolutely mandatory, and the TOGC trink provides an on-use effect that, while small, is something you can rely on in a pinch.
- 4p bonus is good for what it does. 12% straight dodge that isn't DR'd whatsoever is definitely a handy asset that's either going to save you, or save you an Ardent proc on several occasions. Picking up the 4p is a matter of sacrificing a tiny amount of EH to pick up a 12% dodge CD you're able to use when it might be most needed. Paladins, unlike other tanks, lack for short duration CDs that are readily available again very shortly after use and the 4p also helps fill that gap in its own way.
- Last Word makes you easier to top-up, and in situations where you're not topped up, it ensures you have as much HP as possible by maximizing the effect of the non-overheals you took since the time of your last hit. How the buff works is it treats incoming heals as though their caster had +340 more spellpower. It's a really potent weapon, I made what I think is a very fair case for that weapon here.
DarkenedHue has a pretty good post here.
The only thing I'd like to add to the conversation is that experimentation and trying out recommendations from other players can be helpful in progressing on bosses, and can also serve as entertainment when you'd otherwise be bored when doing farm content. If you see a tank performing really well with something that is gimmicky, like gearing for avoidance for example, expect that it is used for specific situations instead of being a recommended gear set.
I personally used to stack tons of armor because it was fun to see how high I could get, which would result in me using double armor trinkets sometimes. The stamina trinkets, especially ones with on-use effects are overall better and more reliable though. Not just because of the stamina, but having additional CDs because of the on-use trinkets is just a wonderful thing to have access to.
So "questionable healers" are finding it easier to heal other people and conserve mana with a tank whose time to live without healing fluctuates like Hillary Clinton's political views because consistency is too stressful in an expansion where the primary tank healers in 95% of all groups heal both the group and the tank simultaneously and healers in general generate more mana than 5 Burning Crusade shadow priests strapped to a wind turbineQuote:
Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme
I've played every single Roblox game under the sun since it looked like it was made in MS Paint out of 3 strings of code and some spare shoelaces. I fear no bully!Spoiler:Show
the arm Set is the best ???? i ask some tanks pala in game all of them say the best is the arm and ues same the set as u tayp
Yeah, you know what? I'm not going to dignify this kind of low effort comment with a response.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnOriginal
Oh, well it's a good thing you made a response to tell me that cause now I can respond back by saying I'm not going to respond either and officially join the reality denial club where spikier tanks are less stressful to heal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme