Glyph of Diseased and Wandering Plague, game mechanics advice.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

I'm telling legit strategy on-topic, for someone why has a question and I don't think you are doing him any favour with "licherally no rights to tell anything because I can double click on my sim". Get out of here. At least Gnimo did some thinking and some legit reason that's rooted in reality to not use GoD. And sure, the better you become the less value GoD has for you, except if you are like me and farm heroics laid back and chill when your spells just flow instead of reciting "IT-PS-BS..." in your head.

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I think you are missing the point, where the situation could be that this kind sir, who asked for the opinion of you all might want to perform as the best possible dk of his own capabilities. Gnimo explained why using the glyph is not maximizing dps outcome. So if you really want to perform well, then take the risk of a more punishing rotation, and practice it to the point, you can safely do it.
On the other hand, if you want to rather lay back, and have fun your way, it is okay to do so. You can advice it to new players even, BUT don't say that it is superior to the other one. Also I think that if you want to become a good dk, it is better to start with the more difficult rotation, and learn it the hard way, than to start with the easier one and then re-learn the whole rotation w/o the glyph. But everyone has their own learning curve.
I think since you admitted Gnimo had a point, you might be just arguing for the sake of it, and not to prove your point.

@angrylol
At this point you are just grabbing for the straw...

Both Valks and Embers are predictable, they are not RNG, there is a set timer when they will happen, so there is no reason for you to be late on dropping a great DnD and not doing Pestilence on time.
In these kind of scenarios if u notice that your runes are not synced, and that you wont place a good DnD on time, you delay Scourge Strike and Blood Strike by 3-5sec.
I guess that, in the end, you needed someone to tell u this, even tho u did soooo many ICCs and RSs.
I still know players that are bad to this day, even tho they farmed ICC for more than a year(s), so doing numerous raids, doesnt mean you get skill if you dont bother to get better (and GoD is just that, not bothering to improve).

Im not saying glyph of Death and Decay is good in these kind of situations, since i believe it wont make any difference (especialy on Valks), but using those situations as for why GoD is good, is just playing dumb.
GoDnD would be good if all of range DPS with any kind of AoE didnt DPS whore on Embers.
Embers should be killed by UDKs, Crogue, Boomies and Spriests, with couple of Hunter Explosive Traps only, everyone else should be focusing the Inferno and Halion, but thats the talk for whole another topic (everyone who casts Blizzard, Rain of Fire, Volley on Embers is a monkey).

Also, you said that there is a possibility that you will lose diseases before DnD and that you will have to refresh them with IT and PS (edited that part i guess), but if that happens to you while using GoD u will have to use 2x Pestilences, one to refresh diseases, other to spread them, so still no DnD for you unless u have a Blood Tap...
Btw, Blood Tap should be used for that, and the situation u described at the start of your reply, cos there is no other way to use that ability anyway.

You say that he didnt give u a legit reason why GoD sucks, but yet, you didnt give us the reason why its better.
And no, doing IT PS to refresh diseases is not harder than doing 1 Pestilence, and it wont help u in any kind of situation, even a well trained monkey could do IT and PS when the runes are close, or run out of time.
So, if you enjoy laying down, clicking your abilityes while raiding, using GoD so you can eat popcorn and watch netflix or w/e, you are free to do that.
Coming on forums and saying there are situations where GoD is better or easyer for a new player, thats just bs.

P.S. For someone that doesnt have Shadowmourne, using GoD is extra dps loss, cos the main reason why its "playable" is duo to SS dmg increase thanks to OP weapon. So, again, NO, GoD wont help a new player in any case.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

RS embers is far from good example, as you will dps Halion, spread diseases and drop dnd when embers are at some 60% health. How long it takes 60%-0%? If you are super lucky(RNG) you get 2 extra wandering plague ticks where it may or may not matter. And you at some point will have to choose - refresh diesease on Halion or use DND or spread it from ember with blood rune and use blood tap to drop dnd.

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It's as if you haven't read what I write at all or maybe you aren't able to understand it. In order for DnD to be worth using, with or without the glyph, it needs to do more than a SS + BS for it's entire uptime. The more actually important targets there are, the faster that happens. Embers are a perfectly good example.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

And sure, on Valkyrs its more uselful, however there is same underlying problem as on Embers, diseases will fall off from LK or you sacrifice that extra wandering plague ticks for one cycle. This sure can play role when people are doing no buff run and such.

But that's not what sims tell you. Because sims are not accurate depiction of what actually happens in raids. It's great tool nonetheless, but it's not smart to just parrot whatever it tells you as some absolute truth.

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Have you ever opened Kahories? Ever set it up? Are you aware that you can implement a fight scenario that is extremely close to what the fight from a <boss x> video looks like? No? I assume not since you're again talking bs. It doesn't matter in the long run if diseases fall of LK for p2. What matters is not letting people die by valk grab. You were the one that brought up critical points of fights where you'd need extra DPS. GoDnD gives you precisely that. It's a whole lot more potent than GoD for those kinds of situations.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

GoD won't give you some direct %dmg increase as IT glyph does "on paper". But it enables higher efficiency, better recovery from mistakes and more consistent results considering boss mechanics with downtimes. And in this scenario it's more dps than 1/5 bigger dot ticks and few more WP procs.

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GoD will give you extra dps assuming you've no 3rd glyph slot. GoDD will beyond a shadow of a doubt provide you with a better dps output for single target fights. GoDnD is a lot better when you can make use of it, namely the actually important fights of LK and Halion. All the other glyphs will provide consistent results too. It's absolutely never more dps than any of the mentioned glyphs, never, period. Better recovery from mistakes? Sure. I wonder how does one **** up an IT + PS disease refresh though. Maybe we need to make alter guides for people that are actually lacking in intelligence? I'd petition you for that, hell you might even make use of it yourself.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

I'm telling legit strategy on-topic, for someone why has a question and I don't think you are doing him any favour with "licherally no rights to tell anything because I can double click on my sim". Get out of here. At least Gnimo did some thinking and some legit reason that's rooted in reality to not use GoD. And sure, the better you become the less value GoD has for you, except if you are like me and farm heroics laid back and chill when your spells just flow instead of reciting "IT-PS-BS..." in your head.

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All you're giving is thoughts that are based on highly unrealistic scenarios where you assume that everyone ****s up their rotation and doesn't understand some extremely simple concepts on when and how to AoE. I'm telling you that you shouldn't have a right to comment as your comments are founded on absolutely nothing. No sim supports your claim, no EJ guide would support your claim (that GoD somehow provides more dps). I gave you more than enough "legit" reasons for why you shouldn't be using GoD. The argument of "I like this as it's chill" is completely fine, the argument of that exact same thing being somehow better than what has been established long before we even played the game as the undisputed best way of playing your dk is complete bull****.

To anyone that has a clue on how the spec is played you're a clown at this point. Literally as bad as dike and his 19k unreachable bdk dps. Can you get a ****ing clue already?

You dudes are funny.
There are situations where GoD will be better. You are talking about strawmans, oh irony. You are trying to prove soemthing to strawman you made out of me. I know that by the numbers IT glyph is better, I can double click on sim and be "smart" too. But there are scenarios and conditions where player can choose GoD, not sacrificing their spot in raid or progression.

So we arrived at point where IT coul'd actually not be the best choice, instead GoDnD? :D

Rifokelt is so far up his ***, he thinks he has to prove his truth or something. No one gives a flying crap about it. You can't see that OP want's some decent info on both glyphs and why would someone choose one? I guess that would be asking too much of you.

Btw I'm somewehat satisfied with topic now.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

You dudes are funny.
There are situations where GoD will be better.

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Please do explain which and why?
Cos at this point, i can also say that there are uses for this kind of spec:
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#jZZ...utbuIqo:rMpczV
But we all know i would be just talking out of my ***.

Upsides of Glyph of disease

Faster use of runes, gain 1.5 downtime each cycle:
Use to spend RP from AMS, wild growth, rupture.
Use defs and such with ease.
Can step away from boss on some mechanics where is necessary with 0 lost dps.
Can reliably gain 10 RP from Horn on almost every CD.
You have time to react at any time on any boss with no risk of losing dps.
Targets have reliably diseases on them, you can switch target and back with no changes on your rotation.
Ease of use. Can boost below average player to above average, opening opportunities.

You must be special kind to deny this.

P.S.
I made a build with SS glyph and Reaper, was pretty fun. Wasn't as stupid as the one you linked tough.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

You dudes are funny.
There are situations where GoD will be better. You are talking about strawmans, oh irony. You are trying to prove soemthing to strawman you made out of me. I know that by the numbers IT glyph is better, I can double click on sim and be "smart" too. But there are scenarios and conditions where player can choose GoD, not sacrificing their spot in raid or progression.

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You might want to look up the definition of what a straw man is. GoD isn't a better 3rd glyph for any particular encounter compared to any of the other optios you have as an unholy dk. I don't know if we're funny, but at this point you're pathetic.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

So we arrived at point where IT coul'd actually not be the best choice, instead GoDnD? :D

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I don't know how you don't realise yet that when I'm referring to a third glyph I'm taking ghoul and IT for granted since they're basically set in stone.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

Rifokelt is so far up his ***, he thinks he has to prove his truth or something. No one gives a flying crap about it. You can't see that OP want's some decent info on both glyphs and why would someone choose one? I guess that would be asking too much of you.

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I'm not proving anything to you really. Just conveying information that's publicly available for anyone to read and is backed up by simulations. You on the other hand are talking nonsense that's backed up by... oh wait, it isn't. The OP asked,

"If i do all things correct then where is the point to not have Glyph of Diseased since without it when i spread disease's via Pestilance i get always max duration on target X and Star and they tick at same time always.. if this is correct then is Glyph of Diseased negative effect only main target Skull? and the rest will be no deference at all"

I think everyone besides you pointed out how GoD is not optimal. Makes you wonder who's so far up his own ***, eh?

I provided why people choose Disease glyph.

While one WP tick is almost guaranteed if you have lots of targets and other is based of your crit chance. Glyph of disease costs that second tick chance and minor dmg loss on one tick that may or may not be one that WP ticks from for things I mentioned above.

Plus I thought "IT glyph or ******" seemed lacking answer. Noone pointed out WHY GoD is not optimal, only thing there was "muh sims".

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Originally Posted by angrylol

I provided why people choose Disease glyph.

While one WP tick is almost guaranteed if you have lots of targets and other is based of your crit chance. Glyph of disease costs that second tick chance and minor dmg loss on one tick that may or may not be one that WP ticks from for things I mentioned above.

Plus I thought "IT glyph or ******" seemed lacking answer. Noone pointed out WHY GoD is not optimal, only thing there was "muh sims".

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So you're going by "angrylol" now nerd? Haha whats up douche bag, it's Tanner from Highschool. Remember me? Me and the guys used to give you a hard time in school. Sorry you were just an easy target lol. I can see not much has changed. Remember Sarah the girl you had a crush on? Yeah we're married now. I make over 200k a year and drive a mustang GT. I guess some things never change huh loser? Nice catching up lol. Pathetic...

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Originally Posted by angrylol

I provided why people choose Disease glyph.

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Yeah, on that I agree and have no issue with. What I have an issue with is the claim that it provides more dps than other options. Well that and using bad/average players as some kind of argument.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

While one WP tick is almost guaranteed if you have lots of targets and other is based of your crit chance. Glyph of disease costs that second tick chance and minor dmg loss on one tick that may or may not be one that WP ticks from for things I mentioned above.

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GoD may not even cost that WP tick. Even if it does that's not really the issue with it.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

Plus I thought "IT glyph or ******" seemed lacking answer. Noone pointed out WHY GoD is not optimal, only thing there was "muh sims".

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That's the thing sims and spreadsheets were made for though. There isn't a better way to answer such a non-trivial question.

Well, some things escalated quickly, but lets try to ignore them i guess for the sake of the argument...

As for your reasons, here we go:

-You dont want Downtime, especially if you can fill it somehow. On top of that, you can always make downtime with the use of DnD.
-That extra RP should be spent while using DnD, as said above.
-I dont know how GoD makes u use Def CDs better, if nothing else, it makes it worse since u are constantly low on runic power (cos of more downtime to fill).
-Both Plague Strike and Pestilence are melee range, Icy Touch can be casted while moving away from the boss which will again be DPS/DMG gain cos PS + IT does more DMG than just Pesti (which does no dmg btw).
-U gain 5 more runic power per rotation cycle if you DONT use GoD, on top of 1 less free GCD, so, there is no need to make another GCD in downtime which HoW is in the end, and you can use it when you have to move to both refresh it and gain those 10 RP since u have nothing else to do.
-There is no extra time GoD gives u, its 1 extra GCD, which is Icy Touch, which can be done while moving since its a 30 yard spell.
-If nothing else, you switch with ease while NOT using GoD cos you can always apply them manually and not worry if you are going to lose them in the mean time, where again, you can always just spread them with pestilence even without GoD and use Focus on the 1st target to know when to reaply them.
-Again, its 1 extra GCD, there is nothing game breaking here. I dont know why are u delusional on this subject, but 1 extra GCD/spell doesnt change the game for anyone, especially if the game is easy already.

You are a special kind to believe in all that tbh.

You do nothing but explain and provide us with info on why you like GoD more.
And tbh, its nothing more than:
"It makes my job as a DK even easyer cos idc about improving or doing the best DPS i could."
As for extra WP ticks, 21 sec of diseases is 7 x 2 = 14 ticks. So, using GoD makes you lose arround 7 times chance to proc an extra WP which is a lot if u ask me...
But i guess there is no reason arguing with u anymore since u are just playing dumb atm.
I provided u with more than enough reasons why would u never want to go for GoD.
All the things u said are just the things that make ur gameplay easyer in a way where you just dont care about ur dps, which is bad mentality to begin with.

As for the new players reading this, use w/e u want, play however u want, its up to u to decide which way you are going to chose, just dont complain after if people dont like what you are doing if u decide to go for GoD. :D

P.S.
The only build that works with GoD and GoSS is this:
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#jfV...ux0uIqo:prbmMV
Where you need to have both SM and Armor Pen cap, which in no way helps a newcomer with almost no GS.

P.S.2
If you used a spec with Icy Talons and GoSS u made a huge mistake cos for those extra 9sec on diseases, you lost Icy Talons buff and actually lost DPS in the end.

Artficially filled GCDs wont give you some dps boost, apart from what IT glyph gives you and split disease wp ticks. (this is the cost of GoD, some theoretical 2% dps loss)
I'd say gained RP from freely usable Horn is at least equivalent to bonus 5 RP from it+ps.
Everyone leave those ~20 RP for defencive when it's needed plus you have more freedom to use it and remain within consistent rotation with no risk of rune use delay and such.
Sure IT is more damage burst, but then again you sacrificed that additional SS on add for which you changed target. I don't think IT+7 ticks is greater than both disease 7 ticks. Range is good thing tough.
You have just spent all runes on add, going back to main target and have some 6 second downtime on diseases.. what do you mean "apply manually"?

Its not 14 ticks. You don't have 100% crit chance.

Whats with this Tyrone from highschool dude? Get help friend.

"So, using GoD makes you lose arround 7 times chance to proc an extra WP" I never said its 14 ticks. Its 7 with 50% which is 3 WP every rotation cycle.
Artificially? Really? 5 extra Runic Power per cycle so you dont have to Horn of Winter? PS + IT + BS doing same dmg when bis, more dmg when not bis than SS + pesti? These are artificiall to you? I never once had to leave runic power and skip a Death Coil without GoD glyph, its the glyph that eats ur Runic Power duo to those extra GCDs u have for downtime...
Spending all runes on an add? Really? PS IT BS and DnD is what u do if u are DPSing 2 targets, and when that happens its maybe even better to apply diseases manualy on both targets, especially if ur crit chance is high so u get **** ton of WP procs that hit BOTH target, in no way 1 Scourge Strike will add up to those numbers, especialy since u fill all ur GCDs and gain extra Runic Power and can get a full spam of Death Coils when u DnD, while if u just Pesti and SS u will sit there doing nothing for 3sec?
I did my fair share of raiding, especially on my DK, nothing of what you are talking works in practice. On top of that, all ICC bosses, if we are going to take end game content for example, are in favor of GoIT. Also, in Ulduar, i raided a lot of that also, Unholy DK is one of the best classes you can play duo to easy rotation, strong aoe, and easy to swap targets playstyle which GoIT provides. Good luck spreading diseases with pestilence on Yogg.

Now that i think about it, GoD makes playstyle even harder, especially for a new player. You are in constant fear that when u have to switch targets, you need to hope ur main target will be close so you can spread diseases. Otherwise, doing IT and PS manually makes the GoD an empty glyph spot.
But i guess at this point im talking to you like i talked to Dike, Vermynslayer, and that third guy whos name i forgot.

Best of luck, im out of here. :)

Dude, I know IT glyph is better. Stop tripping.
I'm saying that it's not as clear cut. It's a big deal if I end LK with 15'700 dps or 16'000 oh my oh my, gona go delete my char.

Quite the opposite, it makes target switch smooth as butter. Of coarse there will be situations where its out of range, sure. And I have done some Alone in the dark too, and I kind of missed that moment where I was supposed to think "oh boy, I sure wish my frost fewer did just bit more damage".

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Originally Posted by DarkenedHue

Glyph of Disease doesn't reset the tick timers of your DoTs. So long as the Frost Fever and Blood Plague were applied individually, they'll maintain their separate tick timers when refreshed via Glyph of Disease's effect.

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A lot of people are overlooking this post. I tested this for myself on a target dummy. Glyph of disease did not reset the tick timers and therefore wandering plague can proc twice:

Keep in mind, the log excerpt was taken after using Glyph of Disease to refresh the dot duration.

Highlord's Nemesis Trainer suffers 703 Frost damage from [player's] Frost Fever.(175 Resisted)
[Player's] Wandering Plague hits Highlord's Nemesis Trainer for 732 Shadow.(182 Resisted)
Highlord's Nemesis Trainer suffers 809 Shadow damage from [player's] Blood Plague.
[Player's] Wandering Plague hits Highlord's Nemesis Trainer for 894 Shadow.