Dkp system is cancer - change my mind

How can rolling a dice be unfair? If you roll a 2 instead of a 100 it's not the system's fault, that's just what it is, it's not like the system is going against you. As I said before UNBIASED.

Also, I guess you didn't read what Obnoxious wrote, so I suggest you go back a few posts and take a look on it.

And to be honest, the sorry excuse that people use to use the DKP system to ''make players more committed to the guild'' it's just not enough. As Obnoxious said, it is a pyramid scheme and you should be ashamed of your self if you use/defend it.

And lastly, I never mentioned the loot council system, so I don't even know why you guys even bring it up, it is just as bad as the DKP system.

Dont ever join a guild with DKP crap. This **** is worse than those who spams trade chat with " ICC25 DBW+ROTFACE+BOE+zzzzzzzzzzzzz REZ"
/roll for the win

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Originally Posted by julhho5

it is a pyramid scheme and you should be ashamed of your self if you use/defend it.

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Why should people be ashamed for choosing loyalty over a gamble that will leave as soon as he gears? this is far beyond a pyramid scheme. Guilds that do this are probably looking for long term players, not pugs who want to gear and bail as soon as they get what they need. The term LOYALTY is quite important in this matter, because it's more important to have consistency during raids. If you know your people will provide, then the others will eventually have their turn.

Point is, everyone goes through the same process, and having seniority over beginners is not a bad thing, cause you earned that seniority, it wasn't just offered to you because you were first. If people want to abuse it, let them, and move on. Being surrounded by *******s doesn't mean a point system is flawed. It means that group of people are flawed. The same argument can be made for guns.

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Originally Posted by Valestia

LOYALTY

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Once again and for the last time, the DKP system IS a pyramid scheme and being part of it is not a good thing, it's not something that you should be pround of, in most countries such schemes are considered to be ILEGAL. So go ahead, try to defend it as much as you want. Just know that if you try something like this in real life, YOU WILL FACE JAIL TIME.

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Originally Posted by Valestia

earned

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This is another misused word, because this system doesn't reward players for being good, to top the dmg metter, to be the most efficient healer or the most prepared and wise tank. It rewards presence, you don't need to be good or THE VERY BEST, you just need to be there, which goes against the meaning of merit.

And as I said before, the point of ''it creates an engaging, friendly, nice and loyal community'' is not a sustainable argument. Any friendly guild can achive such thing, you don't need to force people to play with you. In fact, the way I see it, it creates employees.

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Originally Posted by julhho5

Once again and for the last time, the DKP system IS a pyramid scheme and being part of it is not a good thing, it's not something that you should be pround of, in most countries such schemes are considered to be ILEGAL. So go ahead, try to defend it as much as you want. Just know that if you try something like this in real life, YOU WILL FACE JAIL TIME.

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Almost got baited into making a serious response, then I read this!

Well-played OP. Crystalleia summarized most of the main points I would have made very well anyway.

Crystalleia didn't make any points or compelling arguments but okay.

Compelling arguments? People are just explaining how it works(because of your uninformed OP). If you can't show up for 2 raids each week you better find where you can do /roll. No other system will favor you. There is no arguments, DKP system not going to work for you. No other system either, besides /roll.

Pyramid scheme, lmao what? By that logic everything is pyramid scheme, you spend your time at work to get "cookies" to buy things, and those smarter, better, with connections and working longer are "scamming you" because you can't buy new car on your first week as an intern and they are up there in pyramid eating caviar from buckets. At your expense, of coarse, because there are 25 people in business and you deserve 4% of all profits while you are there!!1

With proper implementation DKP is very good system.

This is just beyond funny... :D

First of all, there is no perfect system, and I don't see you making any constructive suggestions on which system would be better than DKP.
If you roll a dice you might end up getting 0 items for months because it is RNG based system.
You could get 5/5 items from 1 raid, and I dont see how is that fair towards the other 24 players also.

DKP removes that RNG and makes it so that, if you put in the time and effort, you get rewarded.

A good DKP system should have:
% based Decay that happens every week on reset day,
extra reward (not too big) for people performing in top 3-5 every raid,
public raid chat bidding (so you see who u are bidding against and why),
small and simple numbers (5-10 per boss kill for example, this one is a personal preference tho),
and lastly the main over alt priority in it, especially on big items (like trinket and weapons).

These rules also have exceptions:
a NEW TRIAL member who can just get lucky, loot an important item and leave the guild the next day,
alt that is made to help the guild make up for the lack of certain class if multiple raids are done every week,
and many others, based on the guild current need...

Guild is A LOT of work, you would know this if u actually put in the effort in trying to make one work, which is probably why u are complaining in the first place, because u dont want to put work in to anything, but I guess as people already said, its a reflection on spoiled, instant gratification community as a whole on Warmane.
New members dont get to pick items they want over people that worked their *** off to make the guild work in the first place and farm content after months of wipe fiestas drama, etc.
You need to earn the respect of the guild members before you get the benefits.
You dont go and apply for a job just to instantly get CEO position (I can bet anything that you will get this the wrong way and start complaining how wow is not supposed to be "like a job" which is not the point of this example in the first place).
On top of it all, if you actually perform better than the core members of a guild, you would get invited to almost every raid instantly, promoted as soon as possible and enjoy loot with your new found friends.
So yea, I dont see how someone performing better would hurt on the LONG RUN.

Suggestion time!
The system I also like is the "soft reserve" system, where you reserve 1 of the items from the raid and roll/bid only against players that did reserve the exact same item.
If noone reserved an item it goes to free roll for everyone who wants it, regardless of their main choice (with a small prio in mind, item not going to someone who wont ever use it).
Something I found on my time on classic wow couple months ago (rip that project).

DKP system is there to remove the chance of a newcomer to snatch a good item from the guild and leaves the next day,
and to reward the core players who put in the time and effort to make guild able to farm multiple raids per week.
And NO guild will get far if the CORE members are performing far worse than the newcomers, so please...

Be more careful when it comes to guild choice and stop complaining.
You can always make your own guild,
go make a pug and set your own rules,
or even not waste time in game, work your *** off in real life, earn money and coin items you want.

But I guess complaining is always the easyest way to try and get what you want without putting in the work.

Damn, this dude baited 2 pages of comprehensive responses, and they just keep coming. Well done, sir!

DKP with a cap (in my current guild, the cap equals around 7-8 full clears) is the best loot distribution system I've ever had the displeasure of playing with. I don't see a single flaw in it, as long as investing DKP is limited - and only optimal items may be rolled by a class/spec.

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Originally Posted by julhho5

YOU WILL FACE JAIL TIME.

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You realize that 99.9% of business is run this way, and has not changed because it works?

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Originally Posted by julhho5

it creates employees.

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and employees show up for work or they don't get payed. What's the problem, officer?

I would prefer employees over lazy friends who refuse to raid and won't really give a damn, because they got nothing to lose. Not all friends are as willing as employees. At the same time, employees can become really good and reliable friends, which brings me back to --------wait for it--------------------- LOYALTY.

This thread is somewhat entertaining!

OP: 'I'm an intern in this company, but I'm doing a good job. That is why I deserve the same loan as people who have been working here for the past 20 years, even if I'm only showing up at work once or twice every week or two.

Also, just to make it more interesting, I want every longtime worker in my new company to throw their loan into a big pot and roll a dice. The highest roll wins it all!'

People like this OP deserve only to be ignored or the most basic insults that you can come up - insults that their small brains can actually comprehend. Other than that let them struggle in the mud because there's way too many of them to waste your time on.

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Originally Posted by Cancerina

People like this OP deserve only to be ignored or the most basic insults that you can come up

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While ignoring it might be the play if you disagree with him, throwing insults at someone with a different opinion isn't gonna do anything for you.

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Originally Posted by Cancerina

insults that their small brains can actually comprehend

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Because insulting someone over a forum post is cleary a sign of intelligence. Or maybe it isn't and you should have ignored it in the first place instead of posting something that doesn't make you look too bright either. Who knows!

I agree, Dkp sucks, is good only for nolifers. It pays presence regardless of quality, a mediocre/bad player with a lot of free time will get more than an excellent player with less time. Comparing it with real life jobs is stupid and illogic, two complete different things.

/roll all the way

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Originally Posted by Drunkuser

I agree, Dkp sucks, is good only for nolifers. It pays presence regardless of quality, a mediocre/bad player with a lot of free time will get more than an excellent player with less time. Comparing it with real life jobs is stupid and illogic, two complete different things.

/roll all the way

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Have fun gambling your time away.