Why are the raid quests so tedious? And why are there so many?

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Doing the same PvP you would supposedly be doing in a PvP server, except with goals now, is miserable? Interesting. Also, why 90 minutes? In what world do raids only take 90 minutes, from starting the organization to waiting for people to running and wiping and losing members and recruiting new ones and ending the raid and trying it all over again from the beginning, until you eventually manage to complete one, just to get the item you wanted ninja'd away, so you have to start over?

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Once you have farmed your honor you're stuck doing these quests still if you're one of the many classes where your bis in arenas is certain PVE pieces.

You have to be trolling with thinking 90 minutes was an UNDER estimation. If anything, it is an estimation on the high end for a very average group. In a guild there is no time organizing the raid you have a schedule. There is no ninja'ing in guild runs. I don't know what we're even discussing here. You're just arguing to argue for some reason.

Even if I was to give into your bait and we are forming the worst pug imaginable where we are needing to replace people, there is not a universe where it would take longer than it does to complete all of the raid loot quests on blackrock.

Quests are working better now and I recognise they made bg more interesting, maybe some of them can still be modified a little. Also we are not getting emblems for quests maybe we could get some spare honor or marks, or emblems.

Only problem rn is that quests take a lot of time and are gatekeping alters far behind.

Also we are getting random drops, thats not good pvp wise. I suggest to add emblems as extra reward for quests. In the end of the season let pve items be buyed by emblems for instance so the luck factor its over and everybody can have their items if they farmed enough quests to buy them for 1-2 weeks at least. This should work in the same way somebody in onyxia will have a lot more chances to get the item with the pass of the weeks since other ppl in his guild already have it and next one is for them 100%. Remember we are only seeing one item per boss while Ony guys have several items dropt per boss and "more chances" to see one useful for them.

Also any news on proffesion release?

Also if is not hard to code the option to "extend" questchain for 1 week could be a nice adition I ahve 3 chars and have 0 chance of finishing questchain for them each week. Resulting on never being able to reach last boss drops.

Pls at least make gruul/mag separate quests because normally u can dont have to do kara before doing those 2 other raids they aren't connected. Like mby the first time u do the chain it makes sense that u have to do all the kara quests first as in 'you would need some gear to do gruul/mag' but after that just make them separate PLS

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Originally Posted by gabriel243

Only problem rn is that quests take a lot of time and are gatekeping alters far behind.

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The gearing process isn't made with alts in mind, obviously. Someone in Onyxia wouldn't just have to gear each alt individually, but also level and progress through gear all the way to max level. There's no reason Blackrock should have an easier time and require less effort and investment for alts.

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Originally Posted by gabriel243

Also we are getting random drops, thats not good pvp wise.

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The whole point is making it closer to what PvE gearing is like. If Blackrock was to get guaranteed purchases, expect it to be way, way costlier, to make up for the randomness and loot competition Onyxia has to go through.

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Originally Posted by gabriel243

This should work in the same way somebody in onyxia will have a lot more chances to get the item with the pass of the weeks since other ppl in his guild already have it and next one is for them 100%.

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Right, because 100% of the Onyxia population is in skilled guilds that complete content every week without fail. PuGs, reserved items and items being stolen are something of the past, unheard of in the advanced Onyxia.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

The whole point is making it closer to what PvE gearing is like. If Blackrock was to get guaranteed purchases, expect it to be way, way costlier, to make up for the randomness and loot competition Onyxia has to go through.


Right, because 100% of the Onyxia population is in skilled guilds that complete content every week without fail. PuGs, reserved items and items being stolen are something of the past, unheard of in the advanced Onyxia.

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I think the blackrock quests are both much more difficult to complete as well as require much more time than doing weekly raids.
Have you personally done a full set of the blackrock quests? I am asking because it takes a ton of effort/time while TBC raids are pretty much free loot until T6/SWP.

I would very surprised if there is someone who is unable to complete t4 raids but is able to complete the blackrock quests in 1 week.

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

I think the blackrock quests are both much more difficult to complete as well as require much more time than doing weekly raids.
Have you personally done a full set of the blackrock quests? I am asking because it takes a ton of effort/time while TBC raids are pretty much free loot until T6/SWP.

I would very surprised if there is someone who is unable to complete t4 raids but is able to complete the blackrock quests in 1 week.

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It's arguable that "the convenience" of being able to effectively complete all the raids as a solo player warrants an increased time investment required. In all my whining and complaining about the quests (I definitely agree they are too long, but also cognizant of the benefits of keeping people playing many hours week to week) I'm more interested in having them be made more arena related, not necessarily made "shorter"

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

Have you personally done a full set of the blackrock quests?

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I despise PvP. It would take a throne made of cash and a line of supermodels giving me head for me to touch that.

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

I would very surprised if there is someone who is unable to complete t4 raids but is able to complete the blackrock quests in 1 week.

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Doing a raid doesn't mean getting loot. People can go weeks not winning a roll, especially with fresh content that will have increased competition.

Why are you only supossing the worse case where a guy is playing in a bad guild/dont have one and its one the worst performancer in his guild so he has low loot prio?

Rn if a decent player there makes a decent effort has a lot of advantage over blackrock players. He had time to lv up, he had profss already ready on 300. He can have plenty of gold farmed on vanilla phase.
+1 week for gearing up
+ Professions avaliable
+ Raids are faster to complete than quests on blackrock by far, I played tbc classic, a decent group can make it pretty fast
+ More chances to get loot since more drops per boss kill, he is decent and has prio over bad/average raiders


Also remember that people who join a pvp realm expect/lf other type of content less grindy than pve players they want to play arena. Thats the reason reason Blackrock should have an easier time and require less effort and investment for alts, cause if not people will get tired and leave, quests still need a little adjustment in my opinion, maybe can be nerfed midseason or do the emblem thing i suggested.

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Originally Posted by gabriel243

Why are you only supossing the worse case where a guy is playing in a bad guild/dont have one and its one the worst performancer in his guild so he has low loot prio?

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a. The time it takes to complete the PvP quests people have been using is also bad case scenarios;
b. Why the hell would we base the balance of the whole system on the best case scenario? It has to be based on the most likely;
c. How can you people still bring Classic into a conversation and expect your argument to be taken seriously? Classic was easier all around, in every expansion.

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Originally Posted by gabriel243

Also remember that people who join a pvp realm expect/lf other type of content less grindy than pve players they want to play arena. Thats the reason reason Blackrock should have an easier time and require less effort and investment for alts, cause if not people will get tired and leave, quests still need a little adjustment in my opinion, maybe can be nerfed midseason or do the emblem thing i suggested.

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No, you remember this is how Blackrock TBC was stated to be going to work even before release. The condition for it to be linked to a progression server was that Blackrock would have to go through gear and other progressions as well. If you expected differently that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

I despise PvP. It would take a throne made of cash and a line of supermodels giving me head for me to touch that.


Doing a raid doesn't mean getting loot. People can go weeks not winning a roll, especially with fresh content that will have increased competition.

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There is no rolling when you are going with a guild. Doing PVP raid quests also doesn't mean getting loot. In fact, you're less likely to get loot doing the PVP quests since there are less drops and certain items will be going to certain classes/players.

I find it strange that you can try to say that this system is fine when you haven't experienced it.

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

There is no rolling when you are going with a guild. Doing PVP raid quests also doesn't mean getting loot. In fact, you're less likely to get loot doing the PVP quests since there are less drops and certain items will be going to certain classes/players.

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Do we really have to go in circles? Do I really need to repeat myself about the absurdity of assuming everyone is in a good guild, that will complete content, share the gear fairly, etc, etc? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're better than playing dumb like that. Don't waste it.

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

I find it strange that you can try to say that this system is fine when you haven't experienced it.

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Are you only able to critically analyze something you experienced? I never had my testicles stomped on, and I can say I'm fine without it despite the lack of experience. Most people have the same capability.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Do we really have to go in circles? Do I really need to repeat myself about the absurdity of assuming everyone is in a good guild, that will complete content, share the gear fairly, etc, etc? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're better than playing dumb like that. Don't waste it.


Are you only able to critically analyze something you experienced? I never had my testicles stomped on, and I can say I'm fine without it despite the lack of experience. Most people have the same capability.

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Yeah you're right it's so absurd to be in a guild that can clear t4 content. What was I thinking? XD

In my opinion game should be balanced on high skill level not average player level thats why I suggest to balance that, a good player in onyxia with dedication can rn be in a huge advantage over blackrock player. Its like typical complain of unbalanced leveling pvp. Or class balance based on mythic or heroic content instead of balance them for ragefire chasm.

Thats my opinon tho, its your server.

Any idea when proffesions will be avaliable? please some eta?

Ya the system needs a change. I think a reasonable fix would be to break the quest chain and allow the weeklies to be picked up separately. I understand that the purpose of the current design is to keep a similar pace of gearing with the other server but even a mediocre guild should be clearing kara + gruul + mag in a 2-2.5hr raid night. Doing an 8hr quest chain vs a 2.5hr raid night is not on pace, it's way behind. Another drawback of the current weekly quest design is that it discourages playing alts. BG/arena servers like this thrive on alts and players trying multiple classes. To compare pacing between servers it would be 7.5hrs of raiding for 3 chars vs 16 hours of the weekly quest chain for 3 chars, it's not close and it's not enjoyable.