Vanilla WoW and why it is considered the best.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

yes but this is the problem blizzard try to give people what they want.and what people want? fas gearing,fast leveling,teleports to dungeon so we dont have to walk,less abbility so they dont get confused,easy raids so they can do it aswell( i am talking about LFR)...and what happen at the end?wow become a game that you get bored to dead after only few weeks.even for pvp players is bad.you can but honor and CP with gold !!!!!you dont even need to do arena or bgs to get your pvp gear in WOD !!! where is the logic in that LOL.
i agree WOTLK is pretty balanced however i dont think balancing is main factor when we talk about mmoprg.first thing they need to do it MAKE THE GAME FUN TO PLAY,balancing come after that.look what happen with all this balancing in WOD or look Legion alpha...holy **** classes are absolutly the same.all classes have identical ability ,there is almost no utility at all,and classes in general dont have anything unique anymore as they had it before.holy **** legion they remove TOTEMS FROM SHAMAN !!! HELLO TOTEMS !!!!

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I never implied that doing what the players wanted worked for Blizzard, merely that they did what they thought people wanted. Whether for good or worse, that's what they did. Clearly, as subscription numbers have shown, it was for the worse.

And yes, I agree that in the aim of balancing, they have made some very... questionable choices. Which is why, like I said, I find WotLK to be the best WoW got in terms of pure gameplay. It really does have everything an MMO should have, and is excellently balanced as well.

Would removing flying mounts and teleport hubs (Looking at you Dalaran!), RDF, BG queueing from Honor tab help? Maybe, maybe not. It would certainly add to the roleplay and adventure aspects of the game, that's for sure. I would personally welcome it, but I know most won't. But I don't think that me wanting these things is as high a priority as balance in the game, or smaller raiding teams.

First of all Notorious, I understand your point of view and even tho I will argue against many of your points, i acknowledge that in the end it all comes down to a matter of opinion and what personally appeals more to each of us.
I am greateful that you share your thoughts on the matter.

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Originally Posted by -Notorious-

And what you fail to understand is that many of us (specially those who have played Vanilla) already levelled. Then did it again. Then again. By now I've lost count of how many times I've levelled a character. It gets boring, very very quickly. I, personally, have levelled not only on retail, but on over 6 private servers now, plus alts on them all. Why in the world would I ever want to level again on a vanilla realm at x1 rate. I think you can understand my point of view on that aspect.

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So why should it be considered so notorious to roam around STV killing mobs on your third character than doing Hall of Lightning for the 100th time on your fourth character? Its amazing how leveling is seen as a plague but doing the same repeatable daily quests and daily HC at lvl 80 isnt.

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No offense, but this is almost ironic. Vanilla is known exactly for grinding, day in, day out. You are required to farm Naxx an ungodly amount of time, just to get your T3 set. What happens if you don't farm your T3 set? You are a liability to your raiding team, and will be one-shotted in BGs.

The game has never had farming be as bad as it was in Vanilla, and I think on this much you can agree...

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I agree that Vanilla took much longer to reach end game on, forcing the player to spend more time in the open world instead of the shared horde-alliance hubs waiting for RDF to find me a HC dungeon.
I never reached Naxx, few people did so I cant comment on that.
I dont remember being one shotted in BG at all, and you were definetly liable for your raid if only you collected your fair share of resistance gear.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

the idea that raids have anything to do with been hardcore or casual is absurb.

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If you're a PvPer, what the **** are you even doing on a thread discussing expansions? Almost nothing has changed in PvP for a whole decade. I have nothing more to say to you.

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Originally Posted by taralej

If you're a PvPer, what the **** are you even doing on a thread discussing expansions? Almost nothing has changed in PvP for a whole decade. I have nothing more to say to you.

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Except the class changes and playstyle changes of every expansion. If pvp would be the same retail pvp wouldnt be so ****ing dull while lets say wotlk pvp was/is much more complex and intriguing.

Just love the hate pvp players get from "hardcore" pve players. Pve players qq of stupid things have ruined wow today and pvp for long time. Too bad legion doesnt look like it will be any better.

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Originally Posted by taralej

If you're a PvPer, what the **** are you even doing on a thread discussing expansions? Almost nothing has changed in PvP for a whole decade. I have nothing more to say to you.

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i never understood people like you who are absolute.you are pve or pvp.you are hardcore of casual.that make no sense at all to me.i have raid for years and done almost all of WOW pve content.i also enjoy doing PVP becuase its part of the game and its fun to play VS not WITH other players.also PVP have more dynamic and emelent of suprise because there is nothing scripted.i have to admit in MOP and WOD i almost drop PVE because i dont find it fun and rewarding?.when you get your gear you cant use it for anything else then killing the same boss just abit faster i find hat boring after few raid clears.in the past PVE items was part of the PVP and this make it fun.also now there is 4 difficulty on SAME BOSS.that become boring so fast.even so called "hardcore" players agree with me.lets take Kungen for example hard PVE players top PVE guild since vannila.he have said it on stream good PVE guild can get fully geared in 1 month and after that there is NOTHING to do till next tier raid come out.and that can take months.and on top of that a good guild can clear raid in 1 -2 hours.you can do it on alt or 2 but after that for whole week there is nothing to do in WOW in PVE.tnx god private server exist so you can go back to older expansion and have some fun.
btw what do you mean nothing change in PVP?if you are telling me PVP in vannila - WOTLK - WOD are the game then i am sorry but you are dead wrong.pvp in every expansion is nothing alike other expansions.

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1f&oe=57B8A367

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Originally Posted by Imperiet

First of all Notorious, I understand your point of view and even tho I will argue against many of your points, i acknowledge that in the end it all comes down to a matter of opinion and what personally appeals more to each of us.
I am greateful that you share your thoughts on the matter.

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Thanks, I'm happy we can have such a civilized discussion on the forums :)

I 100% agree this is a very subjective and personal debate. Each person has their own preferences regarding what they find to be a priority in an expansion. For me it was getting to end game faster so I can PvP more, since I enjoy PvP'ing more than PvE. And PvP in Vanilla was quite... horrid (in terms of balance, but achievements also add a lot to the game in PvP).

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Originally Posted by Imperiet

I agree that Vanilla took much longer to reach end game on, forcing the player to spend more time in the open world instead of the shared horde-alliance hubs waiting for RDF to find me a HC dungeon.
I never reached Naxx, few people did so I cant comment on that.
I dont remember being one shotted in BG at all, and you were definetly liable for your raid if only you collected your fair share of resistance gear.

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I mean, there was more traveling, sure, but there was a lot of farming going on there too... One would do just as many dungeons in Vanilla as they do now in WotLK, the difference is just that in Vanilla you had to travel to the dungeon.

There was most definitely one-shotting going on, I'm surprised don't recall that :/

When I spoke of being a liability to a raid, I meant moreso that certain classes/specs were completely useless and would be a liability to take to a raid. This hasn't changed significantly in other expansions, but its definitely gotten better...

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Originally Posted by taralej

If you're a PvPer, what the **** are you even doing on a thread discussing expansions? Almost nothing has changed in PvP for a whole decade. I have nothing more to say to you.

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This is probably the most objectively incorrect statement on this thread. How can you possible say PvP hasn't changed through the expansions? There was no PvP gear before TBC, which added a whole new statistic for PvP (resilience), as well as a new scenario for them (arenas). Furthermore, every expansion has quite significantly changed PvP, so I'm really not sure how you came to this conclusion.

Just out of curiosity, do you actually PvP regularly or not? Just wondering...

WOTLK is the best for me, it has the best balance of content but with accessibility, the best storyline and some of the best raids. The class design and balance in WOTLK is very good and a long way beyond the simplistic and crude design we had back in Vanilla and to a lesser extent TBC.

I've personally enjoyed many parts of the game. I didn't get to experience much of Vanilla. But other than that, I can honestly say that I enjoyed TBC, WotLK and MoP quite a bit. Each had their own special charms. I've learned enough about Vanilla over the years to have an idea as to why it was so popular, but it's not really something that appeals to me today as much as it would have 10 years ago.

Yes, classes have changed and this changes PvP in the way how classes interact with each other, but that's not what I meant. In the end it's the same battlegrounds, the same arenas - everything is the same. It doesn't change. It cannot change, simply because there is very little else than "capture the flag", "point domination" and "base siege" - all battlegrounds incorporate these ideas, whereas in PvE new tactics become available with every raid design.

I'm not a PvP hater, I used to PvP for years. I just think it's really dull and straightforward, no matter which battleground you get. Nowadays I only do daily BGs for the honor so I can buy gems with it. I don't see any other point in doing PvP.

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Originally Posted by taralej

Yes, classes have changed and this changes PvP in the way how classes interact with each other, but that's not what I meant. In the end it's the same battlegrounds, the same arenas - everything is the same. It doesn't change. It cannot change, simply because there is very little else than "capture the flag", "point domination" and "base siege" - all battlegrounds incorporate these ideas, whereas in PvE new tactics become available with every raid design.

I'm not a PvP hater, I used to PvP for years. I just think it's really dull and straightforward, no matter which battleground you get. Nowadays I only do daily BGs for the honor so I can buy gems with it. I don't see any other point in doing PvP.

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that is not true. with every expansion there is new battlegrounds and new arenas.its like saying " raiding is the same because you enter the raid kill the boss there is nothing new past 10 years.

Vanilla was awfull grindfest . Running around farming preparing to have fun for months .

Definitely not as good compared to the expansions .