Frost vs Unholy

@cashroll
Keep bringing those good arguments to the table mate...

My point is that it doesnt matter if u do more DPS than other spec, if ur guild/raid needs an Unholy DK u should be Unholy.
On top of that, if a class brings unique buff to the raid that noone else can, that should be taken into account as his DPS at some level aswell.
Combat Rogue is perfect example. Even tho class and spec does good DPS overall, it brings unique 4% phisical DMG increase on the target which boosts raid DPS by nice amount.
Aswell as GS means ****, so does ur single target DPS on DBS/Fester if u dont bring any raid buffs with u, nor u can do good DPS in a fight such as Lich King.

Frost and Unholy both bring unique stuff to the raid and deal good amount of DMG aswell. Im not saying dont play Blood at all, do it if u want and if it brings u joy, but its in completely diferent league compared to other two specs. Frost/Unholy > Blood DPS.

Yo, why is this cashroll guy so toxic?

Arguing that blood doesn't do great single target dps due to it's buff is the weakest argument here, This is purely about dps not about what bloody fking buff the spec brings, pretty sure Dike knows UH & frost bring unique buffs. still doesn't change the fact it does great single target dps. Pre merge when DRW was working blood was doing great single target. (eventhou many other bugs were active)

and till this day blood has many bugs aside DRW, wether you will take a blood dk to icc25hc or not is irrelevant when we're discussing about purely dps.

From what i know only bug when it comes to Blood DK is DRW. Blood Georged was hotfixed month ago and it gives 140 armor penetration rating aka 10%. It no longer ignores armor like Sunder/Expose armor do...
So i rly dont see how buffing something like DRW will improve Bloods DPS by a great amount but meh...

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Originally Posted by trm90

Arguing that blood doesn't do great single target dps due to it's buff is the weakest argument here, This is purely about dps not about what bloody fking buff the spec brings, pretty sure Dike knows UH & frost bring unique buffs. still doesn't change the fact it does great single target dps. Pre merge when DRW was working blood was doing great single target. (eventhou many other bugs were active)

and till this day blood has many bugs aside DRW, wether you will take a blood dk to icc25hc or not is irrelevant when we're discussing about purely dps.

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The point about the complete lack of unique buffs was just to drive home how much of a dead-weight spec Blood DPS is. Not only is it mostly out-classed by the other 2 DPS specs, but it also fails to bring anything to the table in the way of raid utility to make up for that. The only real strong point it can claim over the other 2 specs is in 2-target cleaving, and even there it's completely blown out of the water by Fury Warriors - the original cleavers.

When it comes to blood dps in end game raiding, there just weren't enough bloody dks in retail in bis end game gear. I spoke with Jakkergt regarding this and he also mentioned that there weren't enough tests regarding blood dks for the sim.

out-classed in what? Dike showed you the logs, you can neither prove he was tot/hysteria fed nor can we prove that wasn't the case. what it does show is that blood dps is a competitive strong single target dps. so no it's not outclassed for as long as we are speaking about single target dps.

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Originally Posted by trm90

When it comes to blood dps in end game raiding, there just weren't enough bloody dks in retail in bis end game gear.

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You do not make top 10 parses on any spec by not being damn near BiS and appropriately min-maxing. ICC was a raid that was current content for an unprecedented length of time in WoW's history (at the time), and it was the period WoW enjoyed its largest subscriber count. Even specs like BM Hunters and Sub Rogues have some very impressive 17k+ parses, and these were specs that were known to be extremely sub-par in PVE. There's next to no chance a supposedly DPS spec would not have at least a loyal following hell-bent on making it work as best as possible.

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Originally Posted by trm90

Dike showed you the logs, you can neither prove he was tot/hysteria fed nor can we prove that wasn't the case

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Again, the only thing the logs conclusively showed was the same Frost > Unholy > Blood that I've parroted a lot in this thread now. There was literally only 1 exception to that which was ever logged, and that was where that Blood DK ended up with 22k on Festergut, a good 20%+ above the 2nd highest Blood DK parse.

Single target DPS on a dummy (self buffed only with Horn of Winter):
Frost DK - 9000 - 9200 DPS
Blood DK - 8200 - 8900 DPS
Unholy DK - 7900 - 8300 DPS

Was DPSing untill i reached 1.5mil DMG.

Did 4 atempts with each spec.

The main reason why DPS was escalating that much, when it comes to Blood and Unholy, is cos on some atempts Core abilities such as Heart Strike, Scourge Strike, Death Coils, wer sometimes doin 50-60% crit chance of all hits, and sometimes less than 40% (RNG hits me hard sometimes).
On all 4 atempts, when it comes to Frost DPS, not a single Pestilence was missed.

Itemisation used for Blood DPS:
http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary

Itemisation used for Unholy/Frost DPS can be found in my guides.

I will try to get in a Raid as Blood DK to test it.
So far in Raids for me both Unholy and Frost wer doin more or less same DPS on most encounters, Unholy beeing top on fight such as Lich King 25m hc, Frost beeing top on fight such as Festergut 25m hc.

I still think and stand behind this: Unholy/Frost > ... > Blood DPS when it comes to raids.

https://www.youtube.com/user/mbXtremeLive/videos this guy played dk on retail ,he have videos and guides about pve dk specs in all he a dps a training dummy,blood>frost>unholy.Also I ask him on facebook which spec was best for single target,he said blood,kappa but also he said that frost was almost the same(he said blood was very boring so people moslty played as frost/unholy as dps).Go ahead and test blood here it will not work :P

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Originally Posted by DarkenedHue

You do not make top 10 parses on any spec by not being damn near BiS and appropriately min-maxing. ICC was a raid that was current content for an unprecedented length of time in WoW's history (at the time)

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I retract my previous remark regarding this, this was a good point. but the fact still stands that not everyone was bis/near bis. warmane is defiantly not 100% retail like. but if you look at the fester logs from the dps of the dks shown warmane in most bosses in the ladderboard is upto 30-1minute+ shorter. and am not talking about the silly mage comps.

As a matter of fact, this also highlights another issue the lengths of fights here in warmane are even shorter, blood has the highest burst among the the three thus further putting it higher.

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Originally Posted by DarkenedHue

Again, the only thing the logs conclusively showed was the same Frost > Unholy > Blood that I've parroted a lot in this thread now. There was literally only 1 exception to that which was ever logged, and that was where that Blood DK ended up with 22k on Festergut, a good 20%+ above the 2nd highest Blood DK parse.

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Well then we should use our logic and dismiss the other 39 obviously!

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Originally Posted by Gnimo

Single target DPS on a dummy (self buffed only with Horn of Winter):
Frost DK - 9000 - 9200 DPS
Blood DK - 8200 - 8900 DPS
Unholy DK - 7900 - 8300 DPS



I will try to get in a Raid as Blood DK to test it.

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Do you have skada gnimo? look at the damage done by drw or in the logs see drw damage...

Well, even tho most of fights are shorter, important fights are long (Lich King, Halion, Profesor, Sindra) and i rly cant see Blood Outperform the other two spec, exept maybe when it comes to Sindragosa where DW Frost is a double Edged sword, and cos u can use DRW on boss more often duo to air phases...
And im more interested in Bloods Constant DMG more than its burst atm.

When it comes to DRW dmg, I think it did arround 100k, after 1.3mil dmg. I didnt pay too much atention to that cos i was trigered by Heart Strike, that out of 40 hits, it did 30 normal hits and 10 crits even tho i had 42% Crit chance from gear only...
Il check it tonight, but yea, DMG is **** for sure. One time i MISSED DRW. Was like, O K. :D

I'm referring to longer fights like fester with no transition, 1mint transitions aren't technically bad due to the short 1.5cd

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Originally Posted by Gnimo

I didnt pay too much atention to that cos i was trigered by Heart Strike, that out of 40 hits, it did 30 normal hits and 10 crits even tho i had 42% Crit chance from gear only...

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yea the RnG is absurd, it's also worst when you're raidbuffed with 49% crit and still have ****all crits

Same goes for Unholy sometimes. I really dont know why in 1 fight i crit 60% of all my Scourge Strikes and Desth Coils and in the next, jk, 30%...

Never had this problem with Frost tho.

I'd like to say thank you to everyone that provided feedback. Right now I've been rolling as unholy for raids to help out other magic users.

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Originally Posted by trm90

Well then we should use our logic and dismiss the other 39 obviously!

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If they fit the same general trend then they AREN'T anomalies. I can't reason much further if you won't realize this. You're just seeing what you want to see.