Discussion about SWP.

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Originally Posted by repkoooo

Long fights better, need more time keep concentrate...cost of any mistake rising up.

Only my opinion, but i want big hp increase and little enrage timer increase.

sry bad english.

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I disagree, once you've been through the motions a long fight only adds monotony, the idea is to make the raids fun and not tedious. Nobody who did Mythic Iron Maidens in blackrock foundry was complimenting Blizzard on great boss design when they made the fight last forever despite that nothing interesting happened until the last 20%.

The idea that Sunwell should be made in any way harder is quite laughable to me, I'm pretty skeptical of how many of these guys have actually ever been to Sunwell circa 2008, the place was already overtuned for the sake of the world first race, it doesn't need to be harder.

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Originally Posted by bigbazz

I disagree, once you've been through the motions a long fight only adds monotony, the idea is to make the raids fun and not tedious. Nobody who did Mythic Iron Maidens in blackrock foundry was complimenting Blizzard on great boss design when they made the fight last forever despite that nothing interesting happened until the last 20%.

The idea that Sunwell should be made in any way harder is quite laughable to me, I'm pretty skeptical of how many of these guys have actually ever been to Sunwell circa 2008, the place was already overtuned for the sake of the world first race, it doesn't need to be harder.

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I have never done SWP, kinda why I am here. Just afraid it will be over in half a week like BT. =/

I suppose PTR testing will give a good idea though.

I cleared sunwell pre nerfs. I know how much damage we were doing and I remember how hard the instance was. But I also realise People got a lot better at the game, we all use drums doing minimum 25%+ more damage than we did on live and we know all the tactics to the minutest detail.

If sunwell released with the same exact mechanics, Hp and enrage timers then the instance will be steam rolled into the ground without any effort.

Maybe you don’t realise just how much more damage people are doing now and how much better people got over the last 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Qitarah

I cleared sunwell pre nerfs. I know how much damage we were doing and I remember how hard the instance was. But I also realise People got a lot better at the game, we all use drums doing minimum 25%+ more damage than we did on live and we know all the tactics to the minutest detail.

If sunwell released with the same exact mechanics, Hp and enrage timers then the instance will be steam rolled into the ground without any effort.

Maybe you don’t realise just how much more damage people are doing now and how much better people got over the last 10 years.

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The playerbase as a whole got better sure, but at the top? I don't think so, at least not comparing a private server guild to the top guilds on retail in 2008.. You'de have to be pretty big headed if you truly believe the top guilds on Warmane (of which I have played amongst by the way) are as good as SK Gaming in 2008. And I'm no stranger to speed kills (guild was rank 2 in world behind Drive at the end of 2015), no stranger to high end raiding.

As I've already said, sure you have information and tactics but for many of the players on the server the raid is entirely new. That doesn't mean I don't think guilds will kill the bosses, obviously they will. But to think they will "steamroll" them and feel they will need to be buffed because players are just so much better is quite amusing. The skill cap of WoW in TBC isn't high enough to support a large differential in skill level to begin with, especially for a private server guild to completely steamroll what the best players in the world couldn't in 2008.

You're doing more damage in T6 and prior because you've done old content on 2.4.3 patch with the added benefit of overgearing before you even enter the raids. You won't be able to overgear Sunwell as you have other raids, you're also now on the correct patch for the raid and the super high dps resulting from fast kill times will be diminished, doing 3k dps in Black Temple doesn't mean you're doing 3k dps in Sunwell.

Edit : Ultimately it comes down to how the balance compares to retail, none of the raids on Warmane so far had been a parallel with retail, for various reasons (the biggest being patch progression).

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Originally Posted by Qitarah

I cleared sunwell pre nerfs. I know how much damage we were doing and I remember how hard the instance was. But I also realise People got a lot better at the game, we all use drums doing minimum 25%+ more damage than we did on live and we know all the tactics to the minutest detail.

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Most guilds on this server have been doing enough dps to kill Brutallus and beat his enrage for months, without any of the new gear. So yea, I agree that some sort of HP increase is needed to make him challenging. Even if it's just a small buff.

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Originally Posted by Mercy

If that's all they did and didn't adjust timers, it'd break more fights than you think apparently.

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But most private server bosses absolutely need to hp buffs to feel correct at all. Every boss in BT has had hp buffs. And I think we can all agree that BT feels pretty good.

Nothing in Hyjal does. They use retail health values on hyjal bosses and the whole zone is a hilarious joke. The bosses there get to use their signature abilities 2-3 times a fight and it's over. Has anyone seen more than 2 infernals on Anetheron? Or more than 1-2 doom guards on Azgalor? Maybe giving bosses more health seems like just a monotonous change, in theory. But when bosses have so little health that you don't even need to deal with their mechanics at all.... an HP buff is literally the best change you can make to make a fight "feel" blizzlike.

Well I hope we get some announcement about release soon :)

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Originally Posted by spraynard

Most guilds on this server have been doing enough dps to kill Brutallus and beat his enrage for months, without any of the new gear. So yea, I agree that some sort of HP increase is needed to make him challenging. Even if it's just a small buff.

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This shouldn't be the case really. If that's true classes do too much dmg. I always thought this server was more blizzlike than others and people complaining abou too much dmg in arena are just used to the feeling of older bugged cores. If you are right this core is the wrong one.

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Originally Posted by Nokki

This shouldn't be the case really. If that's true classes do too much dmg. I always thought this server was more blizzlike than others and people complaining abou too much dmg in arena are just used to the feeling of older bugged cores. If you are right this core is the wrong one.

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Classes do too much damage. There's a number of things wrong. Just off the top of my head: several prolific trinkets proc WAY too much, exp cap is incorrect (too low), certain world buffs work that shouldn't, certain jwelcrafting neck buffs stay on when they shouldn't, and I'm sure there's a plethora of other things. I'm not even a dps class but this is all known to me so, yea. There are lots of things making damage on this server higher than it should be that aren't even hidden. I suspect certain bosses have too low armor also.

And in any case, besides all that, the obvious reason for guilds doing so much more damage is players just being better/smarter, classes being more figured out, and the fact that we (had) 2.4.3 talents during patch 2.1.0 content.

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Originally Posted by spraynard

Classes do too much damage. There's a number of things wrong. Just off the top of my head: several prolific trinkets proc WAY too much...

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You know, correcting internal CD of trinket takes a minute of work. If you know about those bugs, just list them here/report to bugtracker.