Best Set for paladin Tank ?

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Originally Posted by DamnOriginal

Oh, well it's a good thing you made a response to tell me that cause now I can respond back by saying I'm not going to respond either and officially join the reality denial club where spikier tanks are less stressful to heal.

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Maybe put some effort into your responses instead of rambling, then?

Unlike you I'm not trying to be petty or ignorant, and I actually take the time to read replies and respond accordingly, something you clearly aren't capable of.

I literally stated outright I wasn't referring to HC raiding, and I also stated that it benefits "questionable healers". I would have given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you simply didn't read some (or most) of my posts in this thread, but seeing how childish and petty your posts have become it's clear that you are simply too arrogant to admit you made a mistake.

Either you are refuting my claim that avoidance (while inferior to mitigation) is still a situationally useful thing to have on a tank, or you are just bull****ting for the sake of it, which - considering your previous posts - seems to take away from any credibility you claim to have on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

Maybe put some effort into your responses instead of rambling, then?

Unlike you I'm not trying to be petty or ignorant, and I actually take the time to read replies and respond accordingly, something you clearly aren't capable of.

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I understand your discontent with the difference in quality between our posts. After all, you brought us classics such as "r u dense?", "i play all heler my pee pee huge" and the crowd's all time favorite "i am not responding" while all I did was bring up points about how the expansion's healing model and behavior of the primary tank healers doesn't coincide with your conclusions. Admittedly, a petty and ignorant individual such as myself never stood a chance against a connoisseur of knowledge and reason such as yourself but why u heff to bully me!?

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

I literally stated outright I wasn't referring to HC raiding, and I also stated that it benefits "questionable healers". I would have given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you simply didn't read some (or most) of my posts in this thread, but seeing how childish and petty your posts have become it's clear that you are simply too arrogant to admit you made a mistake.

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I wasn't specifically referencing HC raiding either. What I said about proactive healing, mana, the #1 tank healer not needing to switch between groups and tank and spikier tanks being more stressful to heal applies to 3.3.5 in general, to both good and "questionable" healers and you just kept deflecting by repeating "I'm not talking about HC!" and not addressing anything, at which point I just stopped taking this seriously and added some hyperbole and sarcasm to make reading this hamster wheel of an exchange less of a slog. That apparently struck a nerve because now here you are, throwing around unsubstantiated personal insults like "petty" and "childish" when I never resorted to any, the irony completely lost on you.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

Either you are refuting my claim that avoidance (while inferior to mitigation) is still a situationally useful thing to have on a tank, or you are just bull****ting for the sake of it, which - considering your previous posts - seems to take away from any credibility you claim to have on the subject.

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I'm refuting your claims that avoidance lets healers conserve mana/gcds and makes healing less stressful for "questionable" healers in Wotlk. Why am I doing this you may ask? Well, that's a great question. Let me just repeat myself for the 6th time:

1. Tanks get healed proactively. What does this mean? It means they get spam healed even on full health. Why? Because it's the best and easiest way to heal the tank in Wotlk, HC or not. Why is this relevant? Because with this way of healing mana consumption remains the same regardless of how many hits the tank avoids. Conclusion: avoidance does not conserve mana.

2. In the 5% of raids where the primary tank healer isn't a holy paladin and the main tank healer is for some reason randomly doing something other than healing the tank, higher EH will allow her to do so more consistently and with less fear of unlucky RNG. The minuscule amount of avoidance on avoidance gear will largely do nothing to facilitate this, unless the healer somehow has the gift of foresight and knows exactly when those 5-10% extra avoidance are going to pay off. In the other 95%, your tank is getting healed by a holy paladin, who can heal the tank and the raid with one gcd. Conclusion: EH is better for consistently making use of extra gcds and avoidance is pretty much irrelevant.

3. Spikier tanks are more stressful to heal, regardless of who is healing them. That's pretty self explanatory. Conclusion: EH is less stressful for bad and good healers alike.

As for my credibility, I think being a Roblox OG counts for more than "I've played every healer under the sun since BC. What do you mean nobody cares?". If you disagree, 1v1 me in Naruto simulator.

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Originally Posted by DamnOriginal

I understand your discontent with the difference in quality between our posts. After all, you brought us classics such as "r u dense?", "i play all heler my pee pee huge" and the crowd's all time favorite "i am not responding" while all I did was bring up points about how the expansion's healing model and behavior of the primary tank healers doesn't coincide with your conclusions. Admittedly, a petty and ignorant individual such as myself never stood a chance against a connoisseur of knowledge and reason such as yourself but why u heff to bully me!?

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See, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot when you riddle every single one of your responses with these childish attempts at humour. Maybe you think it sounds good in your head, but it really just makes you look like a fool.

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Originally Posted by DamnOriginal

I wasn't specifically referencing HC raiding either. What I said about proactive healing, mana, the #1 tank healer not needing to switch between groups and tank and spikier tanks being more stressful to heal applies to 3.3.5 in general, to both good and "questionable" healers and you just kept deflecting by repeating "I'm not talking about HC!" and not addressing anything, at which point I just stopped taking this seriously and added some hyperbole and sarcasm to make reading this hamster wheel of an exchange less of a slog. That apparently struck a nerve because now here you are, throwing around unsubstantiated personal insults like "petty" and "childish" when I never resorted to any, the irony completely lost on you.

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If you weren't referencing HC raiding then you were just dead wrong. Especially considering the original conversation was regarding BIS items sets. I do enjoy how you keep grasping at the embarrassing idea that a tank with avoidance off-pieces is somehow made of paper, in fact the idea is so outlandish that I can dismiss you as not having a clue what you are talking about. Go actually look at the difference in EHP between both sets of items and you might realise how much less value armor has, the more you have of it, especially when taking into consideration magical EHP + higher stamina on the majority of pieces without bonus armor.

I won't make any vulgar remarks or attempt to make fun of you, since it seems kind of cruel considering the way you articulate yourself, but if the limits of your knowledge regarding tanks is simply "need more armor", you should really stay out of threads asking legitimate questions.

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Originally Posted by DamnOriginal

I'm refuting your claims that avoidance lets healers conserve mana/gcds and makes healing less stressful for "questionable" healers in Wotlk. Why am I doing this you may ask? Well, that's a great question. Let me just repeat myself for the 6th time:

1. Tanks get healed proactively. What does this mean? It means they get spam healed even on full health. Why? Because it's the best and easiest way to heal the tank in Wotlk, HC or not. Why is this relevant? Because with this way of healing mana consumption remains the same regardless of how many hits the tank avoids. Conclusion: avoidance does not conserve mana.

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Simply not true. As a healer you only pre-heal if you know for certain the tank is about to take a ton of damage and is in danger of dying (e.g HC LK/Halion) if you don't top them off immediately. At BIS levels of gear a tank could even go full avoidance gems instead of stamina and still have enough HP to not be in danger of getting two-shotted.

So not only do you not have a clue about healing, but you are spreading misinformation which - if adhered to - will cause a lot of healers to pick up bad habits (specifically the ones who do not have the gear to spam heals, i.e the ones I was referring to in my original post regarding GCDs/mana conservation).

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Originally Posted by DamnOriginal

2. In the 5% of raids where the primary tank healer isn't a holy paladin and the main tank healer is for some reason randomly doing something other than healing the tank, higher EH will allow her to do so more consistently and with less fear of unlucky RNG. The minuscule amount of avoidance on avoidance gear will largely do nothing to facilitate this, unless the healer somehow has the gift of foresight and knows exactly when those 5-10% extra avoidance are going to pay off. In the other 95%, your tank is getting healed by a holy paladin, who can heal the tank and the raid with one gcd. Conclusion: EH is better for consistently making use of extra gcds and avoidance is pretty much irrelevant.

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Again, complete misconception of how healers or mana conservation works. Aside from HC encounters tanks are not taking 40k+ damage per hit, and it is not only unnecessary, but inefficient to continuously overheal them proactively.

I love these percentages you are pulling out of your *** too. It's just an astounding level of ignorance that I simply can't address, as it would clearly be a waste of both of our time.

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Originally Posted by DamnOriginal

3. Spikier tanks are more stressful to heal, regardless of who is healing them. That's pretty self explanatory. Conclusion: EH is less stressful for bad and good healers alike.

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This is only true in encounters where damage is also spikey, and where the damage is mitigated through armor. Again you are confusing EHP with armor, armor increases physical EHP, avoidance off-pieces have a higher budget for stamina and on certain encounters are superior to their armor equivalent. I do feel like I'm wasting my time having to explain these very basic concepts to you.

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Originally Posted by DamnOriginal

As for my credibility, I think being a Roblox OG counts for more than "I've played every healer under the sun since BC. What do you mean nobody cares?". If you disagree, 1v1 me in Naruto simulator.

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Again - what you might have thought sounds good in your head sounds a lot stupider if you read it out loud.

I'm not going to derail this thread any longer or give you any more attention, since that is clearly all you seem to crave from this. Adieu.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

Go actually look at the difference in EHP between both sets of items and you might realise how much less value armor has, the more you have of it, especially when taking into consideration magical EHP + higher stamina on the majority of pieces without bonus armor.

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The diminishing returns of armor apply to the DR% each point of armor contributes. When it comes to phys. EHP there's no DR to armor. The bonus magical EHP on non-armor pieces comes directly and only from the extra stamina on them (correcting you on "magical ehp + higher stamina"), the latter causes the former.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

Simply not true. As a healer you only pre-heal if you know for certain the tank is about to take a ton of damage and is in danger of dying (e.g HC LK/Halion) if you don't top them off immediately. At BIS levels of gear a tank could even go full avoidance gems instead of stamina and still have enough HP to not be in danger of getting two-shotted.

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You'll almost always be pre-healig tanks. Aside from lapses of any significant damage that is incoming or a cast is being channeled or anything else that completely eliminates even the possibility of incoming damage, you will be pre-healing. Unless you're gifted with foresight, as DamnOriginal mentioned, this is the best way to heal a tank. Whether you apply a very large and strong heal or something minute isn't of very big relevance as that depends on your mana and how much damage the tank takes in the current instance.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

This is only true in encounters where damage is also spikey, and where the damage is mitigated through armor. Again you are confusing EHP with armor, armor increases physical EHP, avoidance off-pieces have a higher budget for stamina and on certain encounters are superior to their armor equivalent. I do feel like I'm wasting my time having to explain these very basic concepts to you.

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There are almost no encounters where you'd actively go for the bonus avoidance on off-pieces (only Keleseth tanking comes to mind and only because of the magical EHP benefit). The places where there's any serious magic damage going on are 4, Lich King, Keleseth, Sindragosa and Halion. On Keleseth armor has 0 value for obvious reasons so I'm with you on your point there. For LK every large magical damage instance will be handled with a CD. Halion and Sindra won't have you using CDs for every breath, but instead manage them when you need them most, high corp/lots of stacks, you're well aware I assume. On those fights armor has value and I'd argue it's well more than the value of the extra spell EHP avoid off-pieces provide. Generally almost all encounters provide you with damage that is mitigated through armor. The bulk of damage that tanks take is physical and you gear accordingly for it.


Lastly I don't really know why you'd discuss non-hc raiding when BiS lists are involved (similarly to that other thread with concerns to ret gemming), it seems really out of place. Just so we're clear my points aren't directed at things aside from the end-game.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

See, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot when you riddle every single one of your responses with these childish attempts at humour. Maybe you think it sounds good in your head, but it really just makes you look like a fool.

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Watch out, the Joke Police is here.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

If you weren't referencing HC raiding then you were just dead wrong. Especially considering the original conversation was regarding BIS items sets. I do enjoy how you keep grasping at the embarrassing idea that a tank with avoidance off-pieces is somehow made of paper, in fact the idea is so outlandish that I can dismiss you as not having a clue what you are talking about. Go actually look at the difference in EHP between both sets of items and you might realise how much less value armor has, the more you have of it, especially when taking into consideration magical EHP + higher stamina on the majority of pieces without bonus armor.

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I do enjoy how you keep grasping at the embarrassing idea that a tank with avoidance off pieces is somehow going to conserve healers mana/gcds, in fact the idea is so outlandish that I can dismiss you as not having a clue what you are talking about. Go actually look at the difference in avoidance between both sets of items and you might "realise" that there's absolutely no reason to downgrade your EH for a few percent of extra avoidance, especially when taking into consideration magical EHP and how avoidance does literally nothing there.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

I won't make any vulgar remarks or attempt to make fun of you, since it seems kind of cruel considering the way you articulate yourself, but if the limits of your knowledge regarding tanks is simply "need more armor", you should really stay out of threads asking legitimate questions.

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Thanks, buddy. I appreciate you declaring that you will abstain from personally insulting a person who never directly insulted you, right after you called them petty and childish in a previous reply and then proceeded to further call them a fool in the exact same reply in which you made this declaration in. Truly an enlightened being such as yourself is above hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

Simply not true. As a healer you only pre-heal if you know for certain the tank is about to take a ton of damage and is in danger of dying (e.g HC LK/Halion) if you don't top them off immediately. At BIS levels of gear a tank could even go full avoidance gems instead of stamina and still have enough HP to not be in danger of getting two-shotted.

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Just because the tank can take 3 arbitrary hits from the boss instead of 2 does not diminish the value of topping him off asap as there are multiple other factors that contribute to the usefulness of doing this such as damage besides white swings and healer movement. The idea that a BiS geared tank with avoidance gems will somehow conserve more mana/gcds compared to a BiS geared EH tank is just nonsensical as the difference in avoidance is so far from any consistency, the healer wont even notice it, let alone somehow make active use of it. The only thing those avoidance gems achieve is allow the tank to take less combinations of damage and healing in a worst case scenario.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

So not only do you not have a clue about healing, but you are spreading misinformation which - if adhered to - will cause a lot of healers to pick up bad habits (specifically the ones who do not have the gear to spam heals, i.e the ones I was referring to in my original post regarding GCDs/mana conservation).

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This is why Flash of Light exists, which you can spam with basic 232 gear. Mindblowing, I know.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

This is only true in encounters where damage is also spikey, and where the damage is mitigated through armor. Again you are confusing EHP with armor, armor increases physical EHP, avoidance off-pieces have a higher budget for stamina and on certain encounters are superior to their armor equivalent.

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Literally the only such boss is Keleseth and he's not even his own thing. Now we're truly grasping at straws.

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Originally Posted by Inoyoulikeme

I'm not going to derail this thread any longer or give you any more attention, since that is clearly all you seem to crave from this. Adieu.

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For real this time?

I See 80% Tanks ues The Full Armor set with 2T10 items

Broken Ram Skull Helm Lady Deathwhisper 25HC
Bile-Encrusted Medallion Rotface 25HC
Boneguard Commander's Pauldrons Gunship Battle 25HC
Sanctified Lightsworn Chestguard T10
Sentinel's Winter Cloak Emblem of Frost vendor (50 emblems)
Gargoyle Spit Bracers Deathbringer Saurfang 10HC
Sanctified Lightsworn Handguards T10
Verdigris Chain Belt Emblems of Frost vendor (60 emblems)
Legs: Pillars of Might ( BS )
Treads of Impending Resurrection Halion 25HC
Ashen Band of Endless Courage Ashen Veredict Ring
Devium's Eternally Cold Ring Valithria Dreamwalker 25HC

Trinket

Sindragosa's Flawless Fang Sindragosa 25HC
Petrified Twilight Scale Halion 25HC

weapon

Havoc's Call, Blade of Lordaeron Kings Lich King 25HC

[Libram of Valiance]


is this best set for tanks ????

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Originally Posted by haythamkalid10

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is this best set for tanks ????

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You literally have 3 pages worth of input on the topic. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

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Originally Posted by Rifokelt

You literally have 3 pages worth of input on the topic. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

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3 pages and 20% in game ues it and other 80% ues the armor set what i link that rly Confusing if u understand what i mean ^^

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Originally Posted by haythamkalid10

3 pages and 20% in game ues it and other 80% ues the armor set what i link that rly Confusing if u understand what i mean ^^

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I don't really understand, no. What some random player out of a pool of warmane's big playerbase uses doesn't matter. A lot of people spec, gem, enchant, glyph and choose gear inadequately. There's a very small percentage of people even in the strong guilds that don't have some small error when doing the aforementioned things. And this holds true for all class roles, not just tanking. So whether or not some baboon is stuck in a complete avoidance set with matching sockets everywhere doesn't really matter. If you want a BiS list there simply isn't one that is universal. You're asking a really strange question. It's almost as if you didn't read anything from the answers up until this point.

They aren't trying to argue with you. They asked a question and presented their reason for asking the question. It's not an argument they're after.

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Originally Posted by Mercy

They aren't trying to argue with you. They asked a question and presented their reason for asking the question. It's not an argument they're after.

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I'm well aware. It's just that the question, which is essentially the same as it was at the start of the thread, has already been answered. My point was that what the OP sees in-game doesn't at all equate to what is best (the vast majority of times). And that this applies not just to tanking. All in all his question would be redundant if only he had read the previous pages and I'm pretty sure you know that.