Mercenary Mode.

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Originally Posted by Perigon

First of all, Warmane has access to much better info about how the horde-alliance win ratios are after this change. I'd love to hear some feedback from devs about how this is working out in their eyes, because anybody can make a post about his personal experiences, and it doesn't mean a whole lot.

But assuming that there IS a problem and horde is winning too seldom, then the obvious solution would be to prioritize the better-geared Blackrock Alliance players when assigning them to serve as mercenaries for horde. That should solve the problem- the better geared Blackrock players are those who are serious about their toons and not someone who just made an instant 80 to mess around with. Plus, Blackrock has some of the best pvpers on the server - the average high-level Blackrock arena player is much better than the average bg hero on Icecrown. We all know it's true.

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This would only change statistics, because, if it really is like Horde wins 1 out of 10'000 matches, as we are led to believe by all the crying posts, it WOULD NOT change anything, except super-geared Horde[Ally Mercs] would win agains Ally... ? and there is literally no benefit from that to actual Horde. In fact this is big and nice "**** you" to horde, because now Horde can sit in que and lose 3 matches per hour instead of 6(even slower gearing process to match geared alliance, thanks)

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Originally Posted by Perigon

What is 100% NOT the solution is to go back to having 15 minute queues for Ally - actually it would probably be closer to 30 minutes now, considering that there do seem to have been a number of transfers to Ally since the change. Mercenary mode has solved that problem, and if the system needs to be tweaked then go ahead and tweak it, but I'm tired of hearing horde players act like their bg experience is the only one that matters and if Alliance players have to wait a long time to play then that's perfectly fine.

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You know what would have actually worked? Putting somewhere visible average Horde/Alliance que times. So player joins, registers and sees that he has insant que if he joins Horde and sacrifices that human racial, or he can sit in que and make use of that racial, I don't understand why there was some call to put a jet engine on a bicycle. Maybe put free transfers to Horde if certain conditions related to BGs are met. I can't see a single problem this would cause, and look at all the downsides Merc mode has.

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Originally Posted by Perigon

What is 100% NOT the solution is to go back to having 15 minute queues for Ally - actually it would probably be closer to 30 minutes now, considering that there do seem to have been a number of transfers to Ally since the change. Mercenary mode has solved that problem, and if the system needs to be tweaked then go ahead and tweak it, but I'm tired of hearing horde players act like their bg experience is the only one that matters and if Alliance players have to wait a long time to play then that's perfectly fine.

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The longer they wait without doing anything to this system, the more damage it will do. Should have never been implemented in the first place tbh.

Im amazed how many premades playing now on alliance side, every second bg i meet some premade.
Who get fun from zerging enemy graveyard without feeling any kind of challenge?

Funny fact:
A BiS geared human warrior with double pve trinkets and http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50735 has better stats across the board than a BiS geared horde warrior with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 and pvp trinket.
So we can actually say that the human racial outperforms Smourne.
If you don't believe me then check the top 2s teams.

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Originally Posted by truthwow1

Funny fact:
A BiS geared human warrior with double pve trinkets and http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50735 has better stats across the board than a BiS geared horde warrior with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 and pvp trinket.
So we can actually say that the human racial outperforms Smourne.
If you don't believe me then check the top 2s teams.

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Another funny fact:

Top 5 teams there is 4 human warrior, first 2 use Oathbinder, while the 2 behind them use SM. We can actually say Oathbinder outperform SM, if we use your logic.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Another funny fact:

Top 5 teams there is 4 human warrior, first 2 use Oathbinder, while the 2 behind them use SM. We can actually say Oathbinder outperform SM, if we use your logic.

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It seems like you aren't cappable to comprehend the math behind it.

Having a second pve trinket grants over 1200 extra AP during the burst phase.
That trinket proc is vastly superior to the Smourne proc that gives not even half of that.

That's the reason why it's possible for humans to reach top ranks w/o Smourne while horde players aren't even cappable to be in the top 10 when they posses Smourne.
The advantage of Smourne over Oathbinder is rather small.
The advantage of the human racial over the rest is mindblowing.

#Time for the human nerf!

Humans are strongest PvP race, this is true, however you make it sound like this is the main reason for people to be top rating. You sound like this people who complain about SM and claim getting SM make you instantly reach 2k+ just because of the weapon. Here is a question for you, lets say we agree Human have unfair advantage and they need to be nerfed, what stop you next to use the same arguments and ask for SM nerf or any other type of custom change that will make the game more "fair" ? What stop you from coming tomorrow and saying " hey SM is stronger then any other weapons in the game, its unfair to non-plate classes and need to be nerfed" ?

Also when you compare human w/o SM to Horde with SM you seem to forget that is not 2nd tirnket vs SM, its 2nd pve trinker Vs SM + whatever racial they have + PVP trinket. PvP trinket can also be consider as bonus DMG because having them mean you can gem dmg stats over resilience.

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Originally Posted by truthwow1

#Time for the human nerf!

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Let me fix this for you:

#Lets turn the server into custom funserver because i say so.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Let me fix this for you:

#Lets turn the server into custom funserver because i say so.

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And that's the whole thing.
All the "Custom" additions warmane has made to the servers have been ok, it haven't impacted it in a way adding an actual in game item which is "Bis"
Adding an item in game that everyone "Have" to use in pvp is way to much custom.
Os is it just me?

I consider a buffed PvP trinket with a bit more resilience as much less of a custom content than cross- faction mercenary mode, gear based BGs or Tmog.

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Originally Posted by truthwow1

I consider a buffed PvP trinket with a bit more resilience as much less of a custom content than cross- faction mercenary mode, gear based BGs or Tmog.

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So changing the value of items is less Custom change then cosmetic option, group making tool, or cross-realm which is Blizzlike? Yes good luck with that logic.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

So changing the value of items is less Custom change then cosmetic option, group making tool, or cross-realm which is Blizzlike? Yes good luck with that logic.

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Cross-realm and cross-faction are two different things.
When almost every player that you meet looks completly different than back on retail because of tmog, then I consider this as much more of a custom change than tweaking the stats of a SINGLE item.
The entire PvE playerbase wouldn't even be affected by a buffed pvp trinket.
Ppl would get quickly used to it and they wouldn't even notice the difference.

After all that buffed trinket would make PvP even more like back on retail. There would be race diversity again in pvp and not only humans.
You could see gnomes and dwarfs running around in BGs and arena.
You know, it's these exotic little creatures that are so rare that the alliance forgot how they look like.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Here is a question for you, lets say we agree Human have unfair advantage and they need to be nerfed, what stop you next to use the same arguments and ask for SM nerf or any other type of custom change that will make the game more "fair" ? What stop you from coming tomorrow and saying " hey SM is stronger then any other weapons in the game, its unfair to non-plate classes and need to be nerfed" ?

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It is Warmane who felt the urge to implement a custom feature to reduce the alliance BG queue time.
The result is cross-faction MM and all the drama that came with it.
Which leads to the question:
Why do we need a heavy custom feature like MM with allys dressed as horde, unbalanced BGs, etc, when we can achieve more with just a small item tweak?
A buffed pvp trinket would make the human race less superior and consequently fix all the PvP faction imbalance issues that we have.

To answer your question: We don't ask for more custom features. Rather the opposite. We want to trade a heavy custom feature that is already in the game with a smaller but more effective custom feature.

Or instead of messing with item stats which is whole another can of worms just add some timers. Player eligible to be drawn as Merc only after 15min wait in que. Boom. Solves literally every problem.

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Originally Posted by truthwow1

Why do we need a heavy custom feature like MM with allys dressed as horde, unbalanced BGs, etc, when we can achieve more with just a small item tweak?

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I personally am against any custom changes, we was fine w/o them for 9 years there was no need to add them now. The main reason i am against custom changes is because when you make 1 then someone like you show up and say " hey there is custom change lets add another one". This is exactly what we see for past few months, people coming with all kind of new custom ideas using the argument that we already have custom changes, so its ok to add new one.

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Originally Posted by truthwow1

To answer your question: We don't ask for more custom features. Rather the opposite. We want to trade a heavy custom feature that is already in the game with a smaller but more effective custom feature.

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I am not sure who this "we" is, but i am pretty sure you are not representing group of people and only speaking for yourself. You seems to fail to understand that me and looking at the comments, other people as well do not agree with your opinion that we have heavy custom changes right now. Changing Items value will be way heavier change then any of the existing one. Changing the way you look do not effect the gameplay. Merc-Mode is only match-making tool and is only for BR players, which are small portion of Warmane population. On top of that Mmode is something Blizzard add themself for their servers and its proven to work well. Cross-realm is something that existed on retail back in WOTLK, so there is really no problem here at all. Changing Items value however, will effect the game mechanic and balance overall, this is way heavier custom change.

And you didn't answer my question. What stop you from coming tomorrow and asking for SM nerf? You can use exactly the same arguments to say SM is better then other weapons in the game and its unfair to non-plate classes, so it need to be nerfed? You can apply the exact same logic and arguments for Human racial been OP to SM been OP, so what will stop you from doing that?

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

I personally am against any custom changes, we was fine w/o them for 9 years there was no need to add them now. The main reason i am against custom changes is because when you make 1 then someone like you show up and say " hey there is custom change lets add another one". This is exactly what we see for past few months, people coming with all kind of new custom ideas using the argument that we already have custom changes, so its ok to add new one.

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It's your right to be against custom features but it doesn't change the fact that Warmane implements them.
I for one believe that small custom tweaks are necessary on a stagnant server because we have problems that didn't occur back on retail. It seems like Warmane shares that point of view.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

I am not sure who this "we" is, but i am pretty sure you are not representing group of people and only speaking for yourself.

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The idea of a buffed PvP trinket is nothing new.
That has been brought up in numerous threads already.
I recommend that you just start to read these threads. It's not something that only I came up with.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Cross-realm is something that existed on retail back in WOTLK, so there is really no problem here at all.

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It seems like you still don't understand what the term "cross- faction" means. It has nothing to do with cross-realm.
I never claimed that cross-realm is a custom feature.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

And you didn't answer my question. What stop you from coming tomorrow and asking for SM nerf? You can use exactly the same arguments to say SM is better then other weapons in the game and its unfair to non-plate classes, so it need to be nerfed? You can apply the exact same logic and arguments for Human racial been OP to SM been OP, so what will stop you from doing that?

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Huge issues require custom tweaks. Small issues don't.
It's my right to point out these huge issues that are happening in the game, same as it's your right to deny what I say.
It's Warmane who decides where custom tweaks are neccesary and where not.
Just because they implement one custom change doesn't mean that they have to change the entire game.

What stops me from coming tomorrow and asking for another custom change for the better?
Nobody. When I see another huge issue appearing in the game which can only be solved with custom changes then I won't hesitate to point it out and try to find solutions.