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You really need to rethink this system. Been in 4 RHC trying to do the daily 2 EoF, in each of them either the tank or the heal left resulting giving us all 15 min CD. That's a whole hour of CD (not counting the queue for each then it's easily 1h30min) for something that's not my fault. At this point it's just a waste of time and I'm really losing my interest to play
Nice nazi logic bro. So if the instance is bugged and you know it but others don't and report you because you demand kick they are right. If you leave for an emergency or you have any other important problem to solve and they report you, they are right. If someone is racist at you and you refuse to play with them and demand a kick, they are right to report you. You understood everything on how wow works. I don't even know how you can think on such ideas but maybe it's better if you think at different scenarios before posting such comments. Tbh I stopped writing here because I've got 100s of similar scenarios where your idea failsQuote:
Originally Posted by OhieMitzen
If you got an emergency, you wont be playing anyway for 30m. If you got an emergency that takes 2minutes to solve, you can "brb 2m emergency".Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
And if dungeon is bugged, there is usually a census on kick. Everyone just kicks. But with the new system, u will still get 15m CD. Which must be changed.
At times, you want to kick player who needs on everything. You still report them, but u kick them out. Now, they should have the deserter for being kicked. But not the group so you get 5th spot filled..
That I agree with. If one leaves, why should the group 4/5 get CD as well? We've had the same happen that we couldn't even requeue.Quote:
Originally Posted by iDingus
You're saying it like you can't requeue for the missing role. Requeue your group, tele out of dungeon and go farm until you find another person. You're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by pagaro93
You surely didn't read the first comment: he is talking about BANS. so what? if someone leaves ban, if someone has an emergency ban, if someone ***** and you leave for legit reasons bans: yes that's is nazi, FORCING ppl to play and scaring them with punishments; and btw "generally there is census" is just your opinion. In more than 6 years of playing I experienced only ppl that when you say them something is bugged they answer "no it's not", and you lose other 20 min wiping for no reason, until they finally understand. You should talk about your own experience, not somthing you dreamed or imagined or heard from others.Quote:
Originally Posted by pagaro93
1. If you (actually) have emergency, you shouldn't sit there waiting/demanding for a kick. Should you care for deserter if there's a real emergency? Or is the emergency you being a snowflake that can't take a little time off of a game. "Oh no honey, I know your water just broke, but I can't take you to hospital when these players can't kick me".Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
2. Thus if you can't leave when you have "emergency", and keep demanding kick and hindering others' game as well. Yeah, I guess you could take the ban. I suppose the 30 min deserter debuff isn't much compared to not being able to play for a day or two.
2.1. So if you don't want to play, take your short punishment of 30 min deserter and leave. No hard feelings there, really.
3. Last time I ran into "this dungeon is bugged", was a day after I had completed the very same dungeon with 0 bugs. I suppose the bug was it being a long Culling of Stratholme, that nobody wants to do, because "it's too long". This was yesterday btw.
It seems you misunderstood my message a bit.
Here's it bit clearer:
If they refuse to play (excuses for long dungeon, AFK, not being helpful in RDF), or refuse to leave (demanding kick as they are little snowflakes who shouldn't be given deserter) you can report them. The ban will only be few days. Perhaps they'll learn from the experience.
So is it really so hard to leave, if you don't like it. I don't accept "please, kick me, it's emergency" as a solid answer, as it's obviously a lie.
What problem are you trying to fix with this change?Quote:
Originally Posted by Midna
It's well known that changes like this made by ACTIVISION Blizzard are what lead to the continuous decline of WoW's population towards the end of WotLK and onward. Small seemingly "insignificant" changes that micro managed the player base is apart of the whole that has reduced a 12 + million sub game to a pitiful fraction of that. And this change you've decided to bring in is most definitely one of the "insignificant" changes made by ACTIVISION Blizzard, that does more harm than good for the player base.
As it slows down the dungeon process as a whole and when it comes to other players being jackasses as Mercy mentioned being a concern in an above post, I'm sorry but that's life. There will always be jackasses no matter where you go and a change like this won't stop, prevent, or curve their behavior and nature.
Overall this change, is in my opinion a net negative for the playerbase. Now if you want to actually tell us the "problem" that led to you bringing in Blizzards failed attempt at fixing a problem, that I'm not even 100% sure of what it is, then I'm sure the community can think up a solution that will be far more reasonable than ACTIVISIONS nonsense.
It's not that I misunderstood, it's that you don't want to understand or don't know the meaning of english words. Leaving is different from teleporting out. Everyone here is talking about leaving people that means people that definitly leaves a dungeon or people that got kicked and get innocently punished, we are not talking about people that teleports out. If you want to discuss about that, well, even if I agree, this is not the right post to talk about it. Also Maybe you forgot about bugs, because if someone leaves you can ask to kick yourself and the reasons are this #44522 and this #32793 and this #47291. Yes the instance may be bugged and you may not recive rewards, so you have to wait 15min to requeue (pray to be lucky that everyone accepts at the first time you ask them) and maybe if the other players are good enough (generally they are) if you finish the rdf hc you may not recive the reward. Also keep in mind that if 2 players leave, the 3 remaining ppl may decide to leave aswell without votekick and guess what? you can't do anything about it. We are discussing about random dungeon cooldown (RDC) that means people that are forced to requeue even if someone definitely leaves because of this punishment and wait to requeue and pray that everything goes well (because most of the time you're going to requeue with players that caused the wipe and have no clue of how the dungeon works). Just the last week I joined an utgarde pinnacle we reached king ymiron and we wiped because the tank, that actually was a king slayer, died because of the bane ability and when we came back we realized that the tank bought that char and the reason was that he didn't know how to come back to the final boss: I don't know about you but generally people will leave about this cringe situation and guess what? you can't blame the remaining people to ask for a kick because a person (the most important) don't know what to do (with a lot of patience we managed to win that dungeon btw). So I think I proved yor comment is inappropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhieMitzen
They'd better don't implement this right now. People are using votekick constantly and not necessarily because they want to kick someone but because the instance may be broken or somthing is messed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by skullatbash
Yes. You should just leave the party, not demand a kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
If you just leave the party no one will report you (and if someone does, it will be dismissed).Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Same thing as first case, the reason is irrelevant. Report them for being racist if you like, ignore them and do the run if you want. Demand to get a kick and you can be reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Any of those hundreds that involve demanding to be kicked out of the party to avoid leaving and taking the penalty are what fail. You are completely free to leave the party at any time without repercussion, but you aren't to tell people to kick you or you will refuse to play/ruin the run on purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
So we are getting a 30 min deserter and getting punished for a mistake that is not our. should I be happy about it? Can we know the reasons about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by ObnoxiousYes. You should just leave the party, not demand a kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Indeed this is what I was trying to explain but people don't understand so I tried to write it multiple times.Quote:
Originally Posted by ObnoxiousIf you just leave the party no one will report you (and if someone does, it will be dismissed).Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Isn't this like justifying racism?!? Same as first case, I am punished because others are bully at me. what? why?Quote:
Originally Posted by ObnoxiousSame thing as first case, the reason is irrelevant. Report them for being racist if you like, ignore them and do the run if you want. Demand to get a kick and you can be reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
I am not the one that want to instigate people on leaveing or ruin dungeon on purpose, but Imho there are some case when you should be able to request a kick, and deny this means punish innocent players.Quote:
Originally Posted by ObnoxiousAny of those hundreds that involve demanding to be kicked out of the party to avoid leaving and taking the penalty are what fail. You are completely free to leave the party at any time without repercussion, but you aren't to tell people to kick you or you will refuse to play/ruin the run on purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Not a matter of happy or sad, things just are what they are. Bugs happen in retail, and they certainly happen here. If saying "this is bugged" gave people a free pass, people would abuse it even in cases where nothing was bugged. Add to that some bugs having ways around, and some people believing something is bugged when it isn't, and this is something you just have to deal with. There might be cases where everyone agrees to it, and that's fine, but that's not what this is about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
You are punished for disrupting the gameplay of the rest of the group, which includes those who didn't "bully" you or anything similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
All cases can be dealt with by you leaving the group. Your only reason for not wanting it is avoiding the penalty that comes with leaving. You aren't an innocent being punished, you are a leaver getting the Deserter debuff - or a ban if you refuse to play and demand people to kick you out of the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
So we have to waste 30 min because people don't know about bugs as I said then we can kick each other. Ie: now culling of stratholme is bugged, mal'ganis can't be killed, we have to do all run because 1 single player don't know about the bug?. and btw I was referring to those cases when people agree with kick, because If the instance is bugged and everyone agrees on kicking each others I don't see the problem. You can't actually really compare retail with a private that is retail like. The difference with retail is not only the organization, but most of the stuff is literally working well, here's not, and I honestly don't think you've got the same quality of computer scientists (no offense) but this is my personal opinion (I may be wrong) so I'll keep it for myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
I am talking about the case where all party are racists, ofc you can kick one person if he's the only racist in the group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
No I don't think so, I completly disagree. This is just generalize everything. Killing is wrong, but if a theft join your house and try to kill you, well I don't think you're thinking about not defending yourself. The system is already abused by players (and they are wrong) that don't want to play some dungeons because its are too long and they don't realize that kicking, requeueing and completing another dungeon cost them in term of minutes. But as I said there are cases when you kick someone and shouldn't be punished, like multiboxer kicks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
No, you don't have to do all the run. You can leave party and take the Debuff. Perhaps that one single player needs a drop from something that isn't bugged and wants to try getting it now that they landed on that specific dungeon? Maybe he didn't like your attitude at some point and wants to drag it out? It makes no difference: you aren't shackled, you can leave and take the Debuff, you just want to have your cake and eat it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Who's going to report you if everyone agreed with it? Your point is like worrying that among all the people who agree to have pizza, someone might not like pizza.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
I can perfectly compare the fact both cases have bugs. It isn't about the amount, but the fact they also happen in retail, and if you break their rules because of a bug you will receive the same punishment as anyone else who broke the same rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Just like leaving a group instead of demanding to be kicked, you are completely allowed to disagree. And multiboxers? They claim so much that they are exactly like if it was # different players in a group, so they are like everyone else. Are you sure they want to break that by now wanting to be treated like one single individual? Because that would be a can of worms they probably don't want out of the shelf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Nope, but a player may run for EOFS reward then what? the final instance is bugged, he doesn't trust the other 4 players(that want to kick eachother) that are forced to play because he doesn't trusnt them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
So you said "Yes. You should just leave the party, not demand a kick." but now you're running back on your words and say that you can ask for a kick if everyone agrees. Maybe I missed something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
Why do you think I was talking about amount of bugs? maybe I was referring to the whole quality of the servers/communty/staff, and no you can't compare its all, because some stuff works differently, as, in example, selling chars per coins that ofc change the mechanics of the game. I'm not even pointing out that bugs are solved after 3 days, because ofc you're not a multinational. I've never broken a rule in 7 or more years of playing. Thanks god I'm trying to give the same respect the others give to me and till now it worked fine. Well I always hope to don't start getting banned from now on :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
I don't care about multiboxer, mine was just an example of how you can get 15min cooldown for not completing a dungeon and get punished, maybe a wrong one. Do you want a more concrete example: you join culling of stratholme that now is bugged, everybody knows it, we start kicking eachother, and we get 15 min deserter for doing nothing. And it's not only stratholme instance because toc and some other instance appears to be bugged too. My point was just underlining that you should fix the instances before apply the RDC, but well I can't do anything except report bugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
@obnoxious thanks for your patience and reply on every single point.
Yes, that's possible. Although, again, for I-don't-even-know-what-number-th time, you aren't forced to anything. You can drop the party at any moment of your choosing, and deal with the Debuff. You just don't want to deal with that, no matter what, which isn't going to work. If "special cases" were included, it would mean people would abuse those to do what you want - avoid the Debuff - and GMs would have to waste time scrutinizing reports to find out if it was in fact a "special case" or someone trying to abuse it. It's just not worth the hugely increased hassle, because sometimes something might in fact get bugged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
You're missing that apples aren't oranges, that different things are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
"The difference with retail is not only the organization, but most of the stuff is literally working well, here's not."Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
Your words. "Most work well" on retail, here "most don't work well." That's an argument about amount. You should consider editing your post where you talk about OhieMitzen use and understanding of English if you can't understand why I addressed an argument talking about amount as if it talked about amount. Character selling has nothing to do with the complain you're making about something that was in fact part of retail, even if from what I gather it gave a different debuff with the same effect, not Deserter itself.
I don't know what you mean with "getting punished for not completing the wrong dungeon." If you queue RDF, you're assumed to be up for doing whatever comes up, there being no "wrong ones." If you want to queue for random, but choose, it's on you to deal with cooldowns that might be the price of that choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higashikata
While bugs should be fixed, one thing doesn't erases the other. When you consider these changes were part of retail, they also were the fixing of bugs. I didn't play retail at the time, so I don't have first-hand knowledge, but people who did have confirmed the cooldowns existed, even if they don't recall specific details on how they worked.
It was said that the effect of these changes is being watched closely, so that might mean that constant bugs in certain instances (as in, that dungeon is always bugged at some point, not a bug that happens only occasionally, which makes it harder to narrow down a cause) could get priority in fixes.