Dkp system is cancer - change my mind

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Originally Posted by Drunkuser

I agree, Dkp sucks, is good only for nolifers. It pays presence regardless of quality, a mediocre/bad player with a lot of free time will get more than an excellent player with less time. Comparing it with real life jobs is stupid and illogic, two complete different things.

/roll all the way

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Putting in your free time and effort into a guild's progress translates pretty well to a healthy work environment. My guess is that you don't have as much time to put into the game and/or your guild, but you still want to be rewarded with gear the same way as someone who put much more effort and time into it. That, my friend, is entitlement at its best.

You can't blame others for your lack of time or the will to invest some effort into something. How would you feel if after putting months and months of hard work into your guild, someone who barely did anything for the progress of said guild comes around the corner and takes the loot that you so desperately want? Is that your sense of fairness? In the same way you would be pissed if in your company the 'new' guy gets the promotion while you had been working towards it for months or even years. Not saying that doesn't happen, but is it fair?

Your only argument is that an excellent player should be rewarded with gear just because he's done 10 dps more than someone else did. Also, incase you don't understand how DKP works; You WILL get your gear if you keep attending to raids. It's just that the people who invest much more time and effort into the guilds progress will have it before you do. That sounds pretty fair to me.

i was part of a guild that uses dkp system and a trial cant even bid for items if a member or higher rank player bid for that item. it took me almost a month to be a member without getting anything but items that no one bids for. but u know what it was worth it. it was the most enjoyable time of me playing in warmane since molten days. 1 shoting all the bosses in ICC and halion on HC without toxic attitudes is the best part of playing wrath. so my advice for you is to look for guilds that set rules properly and a leader that is passionate enough to talk/listen even to the newest members of the guild. WoW is not about items its about having FUN! world is never fair mate deal with it. or go pugs i was a pugger for 80% of my time here and u can get items by rolling sure but when it comes to maximizing ur char its really hard to get BiS on pugs

Why this post gets such a huge attention ?

Isn't it only logical that a player who puts more effort and more time into the game/guild progress is rewarded sooner than the one who doesn't ? Of course some of us have real life obligations to do more than others and the fact that you have just 2-4 hours per week to play doesn't mean that you should be entitled to get a loot before someone who's been grinding ICC/RS for months just to get that BIS item. In this case, RNG roll is not fair and square system to distribute loot in guilds at all. And majority of replies here just proves that you cannot be more wrong, and since the DKP system has been in here for what, 15 years ? There is probably no better option to get by... Of course there are some alternatives but DKP system is widely accepted for many years, and if everyone would have such a problem with it as you have, it would be long gone.

So no, DKP system is just as fine as it is.

So to me , it seems that you dont understand why dkp system exist and paradoxically you wrote that reasons by yourself.It is because that people who play more should be rewarded ... now imagine that you are going for one item that you miss for a two mounts and every time when that items drops there is new player in guild and this is his first or second G run and get item... I would leave without word that kind of guild

Now the question , tell me why the **** should that new player get that item ? there is no logic , its like you are working in company for several years and suddenly a new colleague of yours joins the company and one of you should be promoted to get more money do you think that new employee will get promoted instead of someone who is company for five years ? I guess not.

To me it looks like you are lazy person like in wow or in real life and let me tell you that world isnt like that you will have everything without work just by clap of hands...

Honestly I wouldnt be in guild where i am farming an item for some time and when it finally drops , you like newcomer gets item based on rng roll that just nonsence.

DKP system is rewarding as you invest some time , this is not just in wow but in real life too.

so dont cry , get mature.

CHEERS.

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Originally Posted by shanpooon

Now the question , tell me why the **** should that new player get that item ?.

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the loot dropped from that raid. being there for that raid should give them just as much chance at the loot as everyone else there for that raid. being there for past raids should have 0 effect on your looting ability for the current raid.

you can shove the rl comparison where the sun don't shine. this is a game. the 2 are not the same.

EP/GP is much much better than DKP and a lot more fair ... change my mind.


Honestly, ive no idea why so many people are so simps about dkp when there are better options out there like ep/gp


Check it out if you dont believe, it takes all of the good of dkp but none of the bad.

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

the loot dropped from that raid. being there for that raid should give them just as much chance at the loot as everyone else there for that raid. being there for past raids should have 0 effect on your looting ability for the current raid.

you can shove the rl comparison where the sun don't shine. this is a game. the 2 are not the same.

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I dont agree with that because if you invest your time in something you should be rewarded ... listen my career in wow is over for a long time because I played that **** for a long time and almost every guild has DKP if was so bad and it would be gone for a long time didnt it ?

I also dont agree with second statement of yours , there are basically two groups of people those who compare it with working in company or working on themself and try to get better life and those who are working only to survive from month to month or kids .. you are saying its two different things like of course it is but idea of working for something to get something is there.

Then there is human aspect , you can always talk to people to get to know them and let them know something about you but of course you have to be active , if you are in guild with people who do you think about they are scammers or close to each other to benefit from raid why would you be in such a guild ? you always have a choice.

I am not kind of person who is sitting on forum and waiting for posts to trashtalk , my friend just sent me this post that is pretty funny how some people think .. I was just mindblowned what is it about and how many peaple dont get it ... I know that everyone has right to have their own opinion , I just hate when people are crying about something without putting some effort in it. thats it.

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Originally Posted by alejote

EP/GP is much much better than DKP and a lot more fair ... change my mind.


Honestly, ive no idea why so many people are so simps about dkp when there are better options out there like ep/gp


Check it out if you dont believe, it takes all of the good of dkp but none of the bad.

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Ya thats true , I agree EP/GP is better for sure , I am not simping with DKP , I just dont like people who are crying about not getting what they want without putting some efffort.

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Originally Posted by shanpooon

I dont agree with that because if you invest your time in something you should be rewarded ... listen my career in wow is over for a long time because I played that **** for a long time and almost every guild has DKP if was so bad and it would be gone for a long time didnt it ?

I also dont agree with second statement of yours , there are basically two groups of people those who compare it with working in company or working on themself and try to get better life and those who are working only to survive from month to month or kids .. you are saying its two different things like of course it is but idea of working for something to get something is there.

Then there is human aspect , you can always talk to people to get to know them and let them know something about you but of course you have to be active , if you are in guild with people who do you think about they are scammers or close to each other to benefit from raid why would you be in such a guild ? you always have a choice.

I am not kind of person who is sitting on forum and waiting for posts to trashtalk , my friend just sent me this post that is pretty funny how some people think .. I was just mindblowned what is it about and how many peaple dont get it ... I know that everyone has right to have their own opinion , I just hate when people are crying about something without putting some effort in it. thats it.

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you're reward for staying is a consistent and dedicated group for doing said raids with. if your only way to reward long term players is to screw over new players than it's a crap system. i don't really care how you try to defend it, it's 100% crap.

and they are putting effort in. they're attending the raid. just because they didn't attend the last 1/2/50 doesn't mean they shouldn't have an equal chance at loot from the current one.

"I was in that raid I should get items from that raid" is a pug rule. And pugs, as we all know, is cancer. Wonder why practically every raid nowadays leader keeps items and rolls them just before their time limit us up?

When you join a guild you use their platform and "this raids items" turns into something like "this guilds items", doesn't matter what system guild uses. "Mah items" and "muh dps" players - no one wants them. Make friends, clear raids, do your part. You will gear up to BiS without realizing it.

I think DKP on purpose has "tough entry" for new players, makes easy for leaders to sift out these brats and gear drama ppl. Go farm gold and buy your BiS items if you want it fast.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

"I was in that raid I should get items from that raid" is a pug rule. And pugs, as we all know, is cancer. Wonder why practically every raid nowadays leader keeps items and rolls them just before their time limit us up?

When you join a guild you use their platform and "this raids items" turns into something like "this guilds items", doesn't matter what system guild uses. "Mah items" and "muh dps" players - no one wants them. Make friends, clear raids, do your part. You will gear up to BiS without realizing it.

I think DKP on purpose has "tough entry" for new players, makes easy for leaders to sift out these brats and gear drama ppl. Go farm gold and buy your BiS items if you want it fast.

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more like "i was in this raid, i should be able to roll on items dropped in this raid". wanting it fast and wanting an equal chance on rolling just like everyone else in that raid aren't the same thing. the roll system definitely isn't perfect. but dkp isn't either.

EP/GP system can be miss handled just like DKP system, but the point of both is exactly the same, where the ones who raid more have a higher chance to get more items.
Out of 5 guilds I can think of:
3 had DKP systems and were from warmane, no issues when it comes to item distribution, just as long as u played well and were active,
2 had EP/GP system and were from classic wow servers,
1 had almost perfect loot system, even for a game like classic where loot is scars,
and other guild had such bad EP/GP system that it was painful to even have a chance of getting an item as a member who got promoted after 1+months of every week raiding (after 6 weeks I still had to wait for 5 other warriors that were longer in the guild to get Chroma Boots for example before I could get mine) unless noone else wanted that item (and getting an item noone wants puts you on a even lower prio when it comes to items everyone wants).

But I still did not complain and waited my turn for an item to drop, because u know what, eventually, everyone in the guild you raid with will have all the bis items, if u farm the raid every week, and you will get yours as well.

EP/GP system with a "small" EP gain and moderate GP gain with 10% decay per week would be fine.
DKP system with small DKP gain from Boss kills, and with 1 of the three things:
Cap at 5-6 weeks of farm, or
% based decay for everyone, or
Big DKP numbers spent on major items, will work just fine.

The only issue I see in EP/GP or DKP system is if someone with 6 alts is bidding from an alt against someone else's main, who has 1 main character and 1 alt, if the EP/DKP gain is done for every char exactly the same, both being core members of the guild.
But, I guess you can sort that just by talking to other person or by some prio system implemented in EP/GP or DKP system on top of it all.

Also, when it comes to trials, of course you should NOT be able to bid against core members of the guild for first 2-4+ weeks, depending on how long the trial period is based on guild rules, and/or how well you perform.

Perform well, get promoted fast, and earn your ****!

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Originally Posted by Drunkuser

I agree, Dkp sucks, is good only for nolifers. It pays presence regardless of quality, a mediocre/bad player with a lot of free time will get more than an excellent player with less time. Comparing it with real life jobs is stupid and illogic, two complete different things.

/roll all the way

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No, mediocre/bad players won't even earn the points in the first place. They'll just get punished so often and end up being at (or near) zero for a long time.
While good players can get bonus if they carried the kill or did really well.
Roll allows those 5.2k hunters to win DBW over a well geared character that would both benefit from the trinket himself and boost his guild's damage in a progressing raid. You rolling 30 while other guy rolls 31 has nothing to do with your skill or invested time, just luck.

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

if your only way to reward long term players is to screw over new players than it's a crap system. i don't really care how you try to defend it, it's 100% crap.

and they are putting effort in. they're attending the raid. just because they didn't attend the last 1/2/50 doesn't mean they shouldn't have an equal chance at loot from the current one.

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Well..

If your only way to reward new/casual players is to screw over long term players (or players who invest more time and effort into it), then rolling a dice is a crap system. I don't really care how you try to defend it, it's 100% crap.

Guess I prefer a DKP system where long term players get rewarded for putting time and effort into a guilds progress AND giving new/casual players a chance to earn their gear by proving themselfs worthy over time. Like I said before, the new/casual player can still get his gear. But the ones who put more time and effort into the guild will be the first ones to get it.

I totally agree with what angrylol said. What you're saying is basically pug mentality. If you want your dice, join a pug.

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Originally Posted by SabDK

Well..

If your only way to reward new/casual players is to screw over long term players (or players who invest more time and effort into it), then rolling a dice is a crap system. I don't really care how you try to defend it, it's 100% crap.

Guess I prefer a DKP system where long term players get rewarded for putting time and effort into a guilds progress AND giving new/casual players a chance to earn their gear by proving themselfs worthy over time. Like I said before, the new/casual player can still get his gear. But the ones who put more time and effort into the guild will be the first ones to get it.

I totally agree with what angrylol said. What you're saying is basically pug mentality. If you want your dice, join a pug.

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you can prefer whatever you want, doesn't make it a good system. and pugs are cancer. which is mostly why i quit playing. every guild and their dog runs some ******ed loot system, and pugs aren't worth the headache of joining.