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You "forgot" to say that at that time Lord was also peaking at 5k pop. Funny how these pro-xrealm non Lordaeron players love to say their versions of truth. If warmane would disable xrealm bgs on lord it would be active as it is now just way more enjoyable to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
Then I advise you to go thru them again since you clearly missed a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
>Implying I'm new or I have never played on Lordaeron.Quote:
Originally Posted by baxuz
I mained Lordaeron for a very long time until I got tired of all their bull****. Stop coping, Lordaeron PvP was on life support before the crossrealm, arenas were dead, 3vs3 was beyond dead and 5vs5 was also dead. You just need to read the thread that anounced the crossrealm to verify this. It's just that the whiners are the loudest on the forums.
Let's see...Quote:
Originally Posted by baxuz
>you're basically just saying: "dont call it pay to win, I dont like that".Quote:
Originally Posted by Allylilith
I said It's not pay to win, it's pay to skip. Refute my argument if you can.
>The frustration obviously comes from those who have no clue what they are doing and have elite gear they could never dream of getting through the game, but manage to sit on 1500 rating with their 6.7k gs by sometimes managing to outgear players who got there the usual way and make it frustrating for them to climb.
How is that even an argument? Why is it an argument that we should remove all people that drives ferraris and porsches from our highways because they haven't been driving as long as we have? Or because they have an inferior driver's license than we do? Please...
>Let's take a casual lordaeron player as example: a 5.4k pvp geared warlock who isnt amazing, but still a decent player (2k in bis gear for sake of the argument) enters the arena with a similarly skilled/geared mate. they will win some games and lose some games to 1500 or w/e. due to crossrealm he regularly faces gorillas who charge and bladestorm him or open with killing spree
Again implying this is an isolated Lordaeron Issue while implying that there isn't anyone in Lordaeron that has the same gear as those icecrown apes. As a warrior you just need heroic off-set + shadowmourne. At that point the PvP set is just for resilience, and those are items that you can get in Lordaeron without entering a single arena or BG.
Lordaeroners want to get into arena with 5.4k gs and hit 2k rating within a week. Now they cry because they face geared people from Icecrown and Blackrock. If the crossrealm was removed, then they would say that they want separated brackets for arenas (Been suggested before, so don't even try to deny it.)
>Those matches are incredibly frustrating losses, because everyone who has the slightest idea knows that it was only a loss because these guys got their gear through the shop, which isnt available on the server you are playing on.
Implying again that all classes are gear dependant. You can climb quite fast playing shatter as long as you have the required PvE items just like warriors, or with rdruid/affli or many, many setups. Basically in order to stay competitive in PvP, you unironically need to do PvE. If you want to get it legit that's nice, and if you want to skip it, that's also nice. It's not my concern why some people drive Ferraris and Lambos while I drive a Mercedes. So again, how is any of this a valid argument? it's just a systemic cry.
Yeah so much I've missed, especially when the complaint was aimed at BG's, the most competitive aspect of this game, certainly.
it isnt even pay to skip, it is pay to win, because people are wearing gear "they" cannot get without donating. unless you include learning how to become a decent player, learn the game and gettting good partners aswell in the "skip". But since you like to take real life examples: how do you like it if rich people can buy their way out of prison? it's only pay to skip afterall. but the main issue with your real life analogy is that people with ferraris got their money by working in real life (they get their reward in the same reality as they put their work in and everyone in that reality lives under the same rules)
Even without the shop it wouldnt be fair, considering how much easier the pve content on icecrown is. You cannot deny that crossrealm is unfair unless you decide to act delusional. The question is if that unfairness is worth the increased activity (in my opinion it is for arena, but that doesnt change anything about the underlying unfairness of having 3 servers with VERY different difficulties of getting gear merged together)
if you played that much on lordaeron, you certainly had many speccs on 6.5k+ gs and ready for arena since it is that easy? and how the **** am I implying that lordaeron has no geared players? I myself am such a heroic off-set + smourne player and I am not the only one. I am SAYING (not implying) that the vast majority of players doesnt have that gear and has to face less skilled players with less playtime with way better gear, just because of the difference on how hard it is to get gear on the respective servers. If I enter low raids I often still get whispers like: "oh wow shadowmourne gg dude" etc., which should put it into perspective. I am trying to make you understand where these complaints are coming from, but it definitely looks like you dont want to understand and prefer to stick to your ignorant views of "all lordaeron players just suck at pvp and all collectively complain for no reason"Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
DEJAVU
I HAVE BEEN IN THIS PLACE BEFORE
Whose and what bull****s? What exactly were you tired about? Did you join a toxic guild? Were you ninja'd?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
Very true, but you probably haven't been updated in a while. It's now just as dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
No need to refute, because it's not an argument. You can either work your *** off for at least 3 months in ICC25 for your Shadowmourne (assuming your guild decides you are worthy of the investment in the first place), or buy it from the shop with 0 effort. The difference between pay 2 skip and pay 2 win is merely rhetoric. You gain an advantage by paying over those who didn't, therefore you have paid to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
Preposterous. People with Ferraris and Porsches still must drive at the speed limit like anybody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
I bolded the stupid part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
Implying the issue disappears while it doesn't affect everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
Correct but lacks context. Lordaeron players work for their gear, they can't pay for that, and the mere availability is limited by the server settings. This means a Lordaeron character is inherently different from an Icecrown character, because they don't play by the same rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdus
And I really think this is the heart of the problem that nobody, and I mean nobody, who tries to make an argument in favor of crossrealm ever addresses. Lordaeron and Icecrown are way too different to work together in harmony. It takes years on Lordaeron to achieve something you can achieve in a few months on Icecrown starting from scratch. It's like box with no weight brackets. If we can't agree on this very obvious, tangible fact, then I suppose our discussion might aswell end here.
Here's a list of things that make Lordaeron and Icecrown incompatible:
- On Icecrown, you can buy anything. On Lordaeron you can't.
- On Icecrown, you get blizzlike hp, damage, zerg timers, and ICC buff. On Lordaeron you get buffed HP, damage, decreased zerg timers, and no ICC buff on top of that.
- Compounding on the previous argument, the sheer availability of BIS items AND SPECIALLY 284 WEAPONS is extremely limited on Lordaeron.
- Still on the previous argument, the number of Lord players that can fairly compete with Icecrown players at the highest level is very limited.
What can be done about crossrealm, then?
The end result is that Lordaeron and Icecrown progression is not only asymmetrical, but fundamentally different, and should be addressed as such. AFAIK there are currently two brackets for PVP in BGs. The lower bracket is probably the Furious bracket at 232 ilvl (the limit could very well be 245ilvl average), everything past that is in the highest bracket. I am assuming these cut points based on my experience inspecting people in BGs and the fact that Blackrock players start with Relentless, which puts them at the higher bracket (which makes sense, since you want to put them somewhere competitive from the get go without making people putting effort and resources into PVP feel ripped off).
I think raising the bar of the higher bracket to 264 ilvl average would solve a lot of problems for Lordaeron. The higher bracket becomes more of an elite: players who join at least with Relentless main set, some Wrathful off set, and the 264 PVE stuff have the bare minimun defensive stat required to not get facerolled by players with 284 weapons. I also think this is a very realistic goal for decent Lordaeron players. The lower brackets gets bigger and more populated aswell, with a realistic challenge for those just getting into PVP.
The reason I think the cut off should be at 264ilvl average is that, as we all know, stats grow exponentially in the very end game of most (every?) wow patch. Which is also the reason 284 weapons are broken af in PVP.
If all of this wasn't clear enough, I want to say that I support crossrealm feature only as far as everyone involved has its own needs met. I truly think there is a common ground we can all find together. As someone who playied both before and after crossrealm on Lordaeron, I know just how dead the PVP scene can be, and how dead it is even right now. The reason for this long *** post is that I just can't stand flawed arguments that try to ignore or belittle the causes of a given issue.
It's funny tho, most of these tryhards who are defending Lord participation in cross-realm and not playing on Lord.
Or they do but have 300+ days played in game so it doesn't really matter
I simply got tired of playing on a realm where nobody speaks english and communication is impossible, making pugs a joke, bg's a mess (0 coordination due to language barrier) and guild recruitment such a slow and uncertain process that I decided Lordaeron wasn't the realm I once played and it will never be again. So I left Lorda for "personal reasons".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
>It's pay to skip because I'm just cutting time, instead of wasting 6 months of my life in ICC, I use my Visa and I get a shadowmourne.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
IT IS AN ARGUMENT. Because both realms have the option to obtain it in a legitimate way, because we all are capable of taking the most convenient decisions in life, and if you're short in time irl you'll go play on a realm where you don't have to GRIND the same 10 year old expansion for the 5th time. It's ridiculous that today there are still people saying that is pay 2 win, it's pay 2 skip. I'm not buying items that are not available for you, I'm just saving myself a time that I don't have and you decide to spend your time obtaining those items, don't blame Icecrown or Blackrock if you chose to take the path of "suffering", blame yourselves.
As far as I know we all drive on the same highway no? Are people from Icecrown/Blackrock under special rules in BG's and arenas?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
I can asnwer the exact same thing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
>Implying an issue prevails while it only affects a few.
We do play under the same rules. There are thousands of people that donate to skip the queue and obtain their gear legit in Icecrown. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lordaeron players are aware of the tuned up difficulty in their realm, so they have chosen to play there knowing this right? So it is just natural that things are harder to obtain, because that's what they have chosen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
The heart of the problem is that crossrealm was applied because PvP was on life support. Because Lordaeron players always have a reason to cry over stuff. Because Lordaeron players have chosen to play on a hardcore server unwillingly, becaues the majority of Lordaeron players are freeloaders that play here to avoid donating the 10 bucks to skip the queue, yet despite being freeloaders they want everything served on a silver plate despite this realm never been aimed to the freeloader public, but to a public that was in search of a more challenging content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
Oh yes, I do agree. This is exactly what it is. But again it's something that YOU HAVE CHOSEN. They haven't said to you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
"Now you have to fight agains heavy weight while you are a feather weight!"
They have said:
"We have launched a realm with more challenging content for those that WANT a hardcore experience!"
Spoiler:Show
Important highlights:
>Raid Difficulty enhanced with increased damage and health pools based on community progress
>No point store
>Limited coin store:
- No character level boosts
- No profession boosts
- No realm transfer
- No legendary items
>REQUESTED SUGGESTIONS
- Gold drain mechanics to maintain competitive Auction House prices and a healthy realm economy in the long-term
- Simple, minimal but effective ways to maintain long-term activity, population and world PvP in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
The fundamental problem is that people doesn't ****ing understand that Lordaeron is a realm aimed for people that wants hardcore diffculty, not to a bunch of freeloaders, that's the real issue here. Crossrealm is a necessary feature for Lordaeron. Crossrealm is the only thing that keeps BG's working for Lordaeron. Before crossrealm BG's were literally dead at certain hours of the day and Arenas were a ****ing joke. You would sit in queue for 10 minutes, get a match and gain 0 RATING because your opponents were too low for you to get any points.
So I agree, let's leave it here because we obviously can't agree while having a different view on the real purpose of Lordaeron.
A happy medium would be to have it be realm only when you select a bg through specific and connected realms through random bg but who knows if that's even possible.
...What are you even talking aboutQuote:
I simply got tired of playing on a realm where nobody speaks english and communication is impossible
But, both realm do not have the option to obtain it the paid way. It's already p2w in Icecrown alone, it's even more obvious when you're getting slammed in PVP as a player who will most likely never complete LOD. This whole "argument" that paying for an advantage over others is not p2w is just rhetoric. We can call it an argument if you must, it still doesn't make it true. You get an advantage = you win more.Quote:
IT IS AN ARGUMENT. Because both realms have the option to obtain it in a legitimate way
The thing is that Lordaeron is under special rules that do not translate well into crossrealm pvp. That's, like, the entire point of the thread.Quote:
As far as I know we all drive on the same highway no? Are people from Icecrown/Blackrock under special rules in BG's and arenas?
An issue exists regardless of how many are affected. As long as it affects someone, the issue exists. That's like, for example, an uncommon manufacturing issue that is not going to get addressed because it doesn't affect everyone. Let's not even get in the details of what's wrong with being forced into specific specs in order to PVP effectively.Quote:
>Implying an issue prevails while it only affects a few.
No, we don't. It's pretty obvious that we objectively don't, idk why you would say that.Quote:
We do play under the same rules.
And that problem was temporarily solved with crossrealm. Except now, even with crossrealm, PVP is again on life support because of how different the realms are. Dead PVP triggered crossrealm and that was good enough for you. PVP is dead again and you want to do nothing. Why? What is the rationale? Surely the same exact issue should be addressed and instigate another change.Quote:
The heart of the problem is that crossrealm was applied because PvP was on life support.
I signed up for hardcore PVE, not underdog PVP. PVE is what the realm description is about.Quote:
This is exactly what it is. But again it's something that YOU HAVE CHOSEN. They haven't said to you:
"Now you have to fight agains heavy weight while you are a feather weight!"
They have said:
"We have launched a realm with more challenging content for those that WANT a hardcore experience!"
There's no highlight about PVP there. There is literally no mention of PVP except for that last point which in no way suggests you're going to be someone elses ***** in BGs and Arenas. Those informations predate crossrealm and have never been updated to warn players that they are going to most likely forget about PVP. And let's be honest, even if the warning was there, it wouldn't keep PVP alive.Quote:
Important highlights:
>Raid Difficulty enhanced with increased damage and health pools based on community progress
>No point store
>Limited coin store:
- No character level boosts
- No profession boosts
- No realm transfer
- No legendary items
>REQUESTED SUGGESTIONS
- Gold drain mechanics to maintain competitive Auction House prices and a healthy realm economy in the long-term
- Simple, minimal but effective ways to maintain long-term activity, population and world PvP in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
Not even close. The real issue is that PVP is dead again, period, and we're trying to draw attention to this issue and find sensible solution about it. I gave my solution, which I think respects both the realistic need for crossrealm and the Lordaeron playerbase.Quote:
The fundamental problem is that people doesn't ****ing understand that Lordaeron is a realm aimed for people that wants hardcore diffculty, not to a bunch of freeloaders, that's the real issue here.
This whole discussion is generally sterile and pointless. PVP on Lordaeron is dead, again, and that's not up for discussion. We're here to discuss what's the cause and what to do about it.
The causes are probably:
- Very little of the Lord population can compete at the highest level in Arena
- Very little of the Lord population can have satisfying BGs
- The underlying issue is that 284 weapons break PVP in the first place, and
- They are extremely scarce on Lordaeron and much more available on Icecrown
People on Lord don't play PVP anymore because they get destroyied by default, because there's a perceived and objective unfairness in crossrealm PVP between such different servers, because that's not a satisfying experience.
My solution is to adjust brackets to more closely rapresent the real growth of stat between tiers (232 can compete with 245-251, 264 can compete with 277-284).
to be honest it was never on life support. the only problem was that BGs were unbalanced like 90% win rate for alliance and horde hardly joined cause of that so queue time was pretty long and that problem was solved by Mercenary-Mode not Cross-Realm. on arena part it was alive and healthyQuote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
Nothing was alive and healthy on Lordaeron until Cross-Realm was introduced. In fact, Lordaeron was dead and cross-realm resurrected it. Don't give random % and stop spreading lies and rumors about cross-realm. Why do you think Warmane is still keeping cross-realm active on Lordaeron? Because they know what makes a realm better and how to keep them alive. Now stop being over smart and stop pretending you know everything about cross-realm better than Warmane does. Importantly, stop blaming Warmane for cross-realm.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmup
If you don't have enough gear by now in your so called "Hardcore PvE realm" or enough skills to fight equally geared people in cross-realm, it is you who have to be blamed for being bad because you just want to avoid equal competition, instead farm low geared people within your own realm by waiting 1 hour in queue for a bg. For this very arrogant idea like yours Warmane introduced cross-realm, so people like you adapt to face equal competition, or perish and quit the game for good.
I know truth hurts you but it can't be changed. so you should better man up and handle it. I am smart and know many things better than you. if you are short-sighted and accept anything that goes on on this server that is your weakness. so better start working on itQuote:
Originally Posted by Stepkid
[Citation needed]Quote:
Nothing was alive and healthy on Lordaeron until Cross-Realm was introduced. In fact, Lordaeron was dead and cross-realm resurrected it.
Crossrealm revamped PVP for a bit, the downward trend of Lordaeron begun around the time ICC was released, as it was terribly overtuned. The realm repopulated after several adjustment, and recently during the first lockdown.
If you don't play on Lordaeron (and I remember you ****ting up the previous thread while admitting you are on Icecrown: source) you don't have the right to say such things. Besides, that literally doesn't mean anything, but you don't care because you're pathetic.Quote:
If you don't have enough gear by now in your so called "Hardcore PvE realm"
The adults are talking. Sit in the corner, shut your mouth, grab your security blanket, and do not disturb.
Edit: By the way this guy has an agenda, is probably 12 and is a massive loser. Please don't feed the troll, he's just here to gaslight this topic with intentionally bad arguments that feel compelling to dispel. It's just a trap, move on and don't pay any attention.
You don't seem as smart as you say you are because cross-realm is still active, so you know nothing. You've been spamming the forum to remove cross-realm for years, but it still stands. Getting farmed in cross-realm has blinded your sight.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmup
Oh yeah that means you have been still whining on forum since that thread, while I was enjoying playing the cross-realm feature just like rest of the majority of the population. Go ahead and keep spamming on forum how to remove cross-realm, I will see you next year while I continue to enjoy cross-realm with more and more Lordaeron players participating in cross-realm bgs and arenas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino
I'd like to further point this out and leave this here: https://i.imgur.com/XmzYTmB.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Cozzolino