[Guide] Combat Rogue - The top kek DPS, In depth guide

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Originally Posted by Dragonrider4444

Hey i was just wondering which engi to pick. Goblin or gnomish? Thanks!

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If you really want to min-max, goblin engineering for explosives(and for easy goblin rocket fuel recipe in case you want access to Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops). Otherwise gnomish has more fun/very minor qol items.

There's also the two endgame ranged ammo recipes for primordial saronite,arrows require gnomish, while gun rounds require goblin engineering. As a rogue it doesn't really matter which one you pick,but you might want to pick gnomish for even cheaper arrows for your hunter(because the endgame hunter weapons are bows/crossbows).

I see. Thank you for the reply :3

Thanks for this information , well for me i tried the chicken trinket at LK , i got the haste buff but i noticed i didn't get DBW proc like for 3min ,idk why and the for the pots , i didn't know you can use up to 3 , i hope it's works, i don't play in warmane btw ,so i'm gonna test it on another server and see how it's goes :D

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Originally Posted by c4ctus

Hey fluffyinsect, amazing guide, I was a new player when I started, I chose rogue only cos of your amazing detailed explanation of everything.

I have few questions though:

1. Would it be terrible to remove the Expertise gems, meaning I stay with 22 expertise (getting it only from Ikfirus and talent)? Dodging or parrying once or twice in a raid when the boss suddenly moves couldn't be that bad now, or I am missing something else? Could you give a statistical explanation why 26 is a must?
2. Regarding rotation (I have 6380 GS, with 1400 ArPen and 48% Crit unbuffed), I use Eviscerate only cos I'm lazy to look after Rupture, I just pop it during Adrenaline Rush. Can you tell us the DPS difference in terms of percentage between an Eviscerate only rotation and Rupture rotation (Including choosing talents and glyphs for each spell)?
3. Once rogue gets to Hit>315, Expertise 26/26 and ArPen=1400, most of the rogues I see stack Hit. My logic is what if we stack haste, it means more hits more Instant Poison procs and also more energy regen from talent. Am I wrong?
Also, if haste is not needed isnt the haste from Sindy neck, Falinrush, GS cloak useless, given that we can have other items with Hit or Crit?
4. Consumables - What's worth more the 80 Attack Power + 46 Spell Power from fish or the 40 ArPen from hearty rhino (I have Arp Cap, I'm just thinking to swap some fractured cardinals with other gems and compensate the difference with hearty rhino).
5. What's your opinion on not using Potion of Speed and Flask of Endless Rage. These items are so overpriced, make you spend 2-3k gold in a single raid. Do you know the percentage difference in DPS, when using or not using them?
6. Regarding the Crit cap, I have read this section many times and I still don't quite get it. The formula you have given us, gives me a 70% number. What does this number mean? Is it the maximum amount of Crit I should have/stack? Or is is it the amount of bonus damage for the the hit once it crits, meaning if make a10000 hit, with crit i do another 7000 damage.

This is my armory. https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary

Thanks in advance.

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I don't think fluffy plays anymore so ill try to answer these for you.

1. 26 is the cap to not get dodged by raid bosses, 26 is a must.
2. Rupture will be a slight dps boost if you rotate well enough at BIS levels but nothing significant to make a major difference.
3. Hit > Haste, more hit = more white hits = more poison procs, haste does a lot less per a point invested. Hit provides us many more benefits over haste per point invested, more energy generation from white hits etc. This doesn't mean haste is bad but rather less impactful through out all tiers of gearing.
4. arp food if you aren't capped, simple as that otherwise go for fish feast/blackened dragonfin.
5. Personally, i only ever pop potions of speed in guild runs and on bosses that don't require much moving, it's not necessary to raid with potions anyways, guilds normally provide flasks at a low price/free. But the difference between using a potion of speed twice on a boss fight will be a significant boost to overall dps (2k+ on a boss like dbs).
6. there is no crit *cap*, more crit is always better simple as that

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Originally Posted by verminslayer

I don't think fluffy plays anymore so ill try to answer these for you.

1. 26 is the cap to not get dodged by raid bosses, 26 is a must.
2. Rupture will be a slight dps boost if you rotate well enough at BIS levels but nothing significant to make a major difference.
3. Hit > Haste, more hit = more white hits = more poison procs, haste does a lot less per a point invested. Hit provides us many more benefits over haste per point invested, more energy generation from white hits etc. This doesn't mean haste is bad but rather less impactful through out all tiers of gearing.
4. arp food if you aren't capped, simple as that otherwise go for fish feast/blackened dragonfin.
5. Personally, i only ever pop potions of speed in guild runs and on bosses that don't require much moving, it's not necessary to raid with potions anyways, guilds normally provide flasks at a low price/free. But the difference between using a potion of speed twice on a boss fight will be a significant boost to overall dps (2k+ on a boss like dbs).
6. there is no crit *cap*, more crit is always better simple as that

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No am not playing as much as I used to, however that doesnt mean that I dont check forums everynow and then. Am mostly online on discord these days..
However don't feed ppl missinformation kk thx.

2. Rupture does few % more. It is in fact noticable on pure single target fight
3. Based on my own tests on my own server. Crit --> haste--> hit, if we go based on sims then Haste --> crit --> hit.. However the differences are minor and hard affected by RNG. If said fight contains any kind of movement skill will prevail.

4. If you're gona eat Fish Feast (80 AP) I'll put your neck on a rope my self
5. Use pots/elixir whenever if you want to min max. Altho guilds might demand that so yeah
6. No crit cap? What are you talking bout??
It simply means if you have high crit chance you also need high hit rating. Having 70% crit but only 8% hit chance wont make you do 70% crits. A decent % of said hits that should be crits will be pushed into a missed hit or in rare occasions a normal non-crit hit.


If any of you got questions that DID NOT GET ANSWERED in this guide feel free to ask/poke around in funky's discord: https://discord.gg/TbYraMsUvj
But if you're being lazy, cba to read or w/e else then don't wonder if you get no answer

Is there a reason to use Glyph of Rupture or any other glyph at all in the raiding context? I am saying this because I don't any reason not to use Glyph of Tricks of The Trade considering you can make a cancelaura mecro for Tricks of The Trade to tricks someone else than your fellow rogue. So the standard glyph comp would be Sinister Strike, Tricks of The Trade and Killing Spree where Killing Spree is the situational one one.

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Originally Posted by fyrinis

Is there a reason to use Glyph of Rupture or any other glyph at all in the raiding context? I am saying this because I don't any reason not to use Glyph of Tricks of The Trade considering you can make a cancelaura mecro for Tricks of The Trade to tricks someone else than your fellow rogue. So the standard glyph comp would be Sinister Strike, Tricks of The Trade and Killing Spree where Killing Spree is the situational one one.

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I see no reason running TotT glyph if the other rogue aint gona TotT me. So I go rupture/evi glyph if I do pug raids and or got a special snowflake rogue in a guild run

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

I see no reason running TotT glyph if the other rogue aint gona TotT me. So I go rupture/evi glyph if I do pug raids and or got a special snowflake rogue in a guild run

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Then have a cancelaura macro on and give tot to someone else? As far as I understand(yet I might be wrong), ToT does not stack with effects such as Death Wish, Hysteria or Avenging Wrath so giving ToT to those targets may be pointless unless you track those cds.

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

No am not playing as much as I used to, however that doesnt mean that I dont check forums everynow and then. Am mostly online on discord these days..
However don't feed ppl missinformation kk thx.

2. Rupture does few % more. It is in fact noticable on pure single target fight
3. Based on my own tests on my own server. Crit --> haste--> hit, if we go based on sims then Haste --> crit --> hit.. However the differences are minor and hard affected by RNG. If said fight contains any kind of movement skill will prevail.

4. If you're gona eat Fish Feast (80 AP) I'll put your neck on a rope my self
5. Use pots/elixir whenever if you want to min max. Altho guilds might demand that so yeah
6. No crit cap? What are you talking bout??
It simply means if you have high crit chance you also need high hit rating. Having 70% crit but only 8% hit chance wont make you do 70% crits. A decent % of said hits that should be crits will be pushed into a missed hit or in rare occasions a normal non-crit hit.


If any of you got questions that DID NOT GET ANSWERED in this guide feel free to ask/poke around in funky's discord: https://discord.gg/TbYraMsUvj
But if you're being lazy, cba to read or w/e else then don't wonder if you get no answer

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Relax buddy

2. noticeable as in how much more? i need to see definitive proof with a large sample size because going the rupture route means changing a few talents & glyphs around to make it competitive against going full eviscerate. And refreshing rupture might be an increase if you are using a 4pc and getting back combo points to follow up with a free 5pt rupture. Every raid has a different composition so outright saying rupture will do more 100% of the time on single target isnt accurate.

3. You are only testing with characters over 10%(not including precision) hit, it's obvious that any other stat will be more valuable since you have less of it, this is probably why crit is showing higher numbers for you due to your hit being very high, this is the opposite for me since i am playing belf and i lack hit due to using 4pc and needing to make up the expertise through a few gems which leaves me stretched for stats. But overall i can't rate crit or haste over hit due to how valuable it is in terms of not missing as many white hits that procs a lot of things for us.

4. Fish feast is the standard peasant food, but yeah i'd recommend blackened dragonfin or the +40 hit food if you can afford it.

6. hence i put * * around cap, i should have elaborated more on it, but yeah you are correct, but technically there isn't a cap, but it isn't as valuable investing more once you go over 60-70%

Thanks for the guide very useful but to get BIS gear it will take an eternity xD

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Originally Posted by verminslayer

Relax buddy

2. noticeable as in how much more? i need to see definitive proof with a large sample size because going the rupture route means changing a few talents & glyphs around to make it competitive against going full eviscerate. And refreshing rupture might be an increase if you are using a 4pc and getting back combo points to follow up with a free 5pt rupture. Every raid has a different composition so outright saying rupture will do more 100% of the time on single target isnt accurate.

3. You are only testing with characters over 10%(not including precision) hit, it's obvious that any other stat will be more valuable since you have less of it, this is probably why crit is showing higher numbers for you due to your hit being very high, this is the opposite for me since i am playing belf and i lack hit due to using 4pc and needing to make up the expertise through a few gems which leaves me stretched for stats. But overall i can't rate crit or haste over hit due to how valuable it is in terms of not missing as many white hits that procs a lot of things for us.

4. Fish feast is the standard peasant food, but yeah i'd recommend blackened dragonfin or the +40 hit food if you can afford it.

6. hence i put * * around cap, i should have elaborated more on it, but yeah you are correct, but technically there isn't a cap, but it isn't as valuable investing more once you go over 60-70%

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2. Mmm.. I do not want to sound mean or anything, but in which world do you actually think that Eviscerate would out dps Rupture exactly? You have a 15% damage increase via Agression and 20% via Improved Eviscerate VS: 30% via Improved Rupture and 30% via increase bleed debuff from Feral. In case your playing in Icecrown you also have another 30% damage amplifier that multiplies onto the other two increases, which means that Rupture would go up to 2,197 vs Eviscerate 1,794 multiplier. Unless you're playing a 4 set, there is no reason to go for Improved Eviscerate..
Another thing is that you keep a 3/3 on Ruthlessness when you're playing with Rupture spec. And to give you some datas about that Tallent I would add the following:

SnD costs 25 energy
SS costs 40 energy
with 70% SS crit, you have a 0.03375 CP per energy ratio => 30 energy per CP
60% chance to add one CP per finisher, giving 18 energy on avg

4. Heart Rhino is actually better, since you could go for some extra gem socket unlocks. I don't see a reason going for hit unless you're playing Assassination's(which I am not very familiar with, so I may be wrong for the hit on assassa, but generally, you would want to go for arp on crogue).

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Originally Posted by fyrinis

Then have a cancelaura macro on and give tot to someone else? As far as I understand(yet I might be wrong), ToT does not stack with effects such as Death Wish, Hysteria or Avenging Wrath so giving ToT to those targets may be pointless unless you track those cds.

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TotT does not stack with those enrage effrcts you mentioned, but it's the highest damage increase glyph of your's for raid's benefit. You could even be giving it to Balance druids, Ferals, Mages, and so on, in case you're that afraid, that you will miss time it with other classes' enrage effects.
Or(in case you're a selfish dps bad woman, then and care none for a raid's sake, then go for something useless like Rupture glyph for instance)

after playing rogue for years raiding, i can say that after 315%hit 26 expertise and 1400 armpen, the best stat is Crit
http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary

Would it be fine to use Axe Mainhand + Dagger offhand? I do have Lungbreaker but no mainhand yet.. Wondering what i should get

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Originally Posted by upenex

after playing rogue for years raiding, i can say that after 315%hit 26 expertise and 1400 armpen, the best stat is Crit
http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary

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Checking out the math with spreadsheet, I've come to the conclusion that for 2t10 haste is ever so slightly better, and for 4t10 evi build crit is better because you want consistent eviscerate crits.