Ninja looting - banned for 5 days

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August 1, 2019
angrylol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

Can you stop overexaggerate everything all the time?
Nitpicking is what your doin.

What I'm trying to say is
Rule should withstand any and all exaggerations and nitpicking.
People want to take items from other people who have more rights to get those items and I don't like those people.
These rules, as they are, bring more bad than good.

I'm not the one who want's to make some stuff up, that people should leave if they are not ok for tank to need on dps items. Impose unfair crap because they don't want to wait in que with their OS like every single person does.

I don't know what is your problem, but if you would think about what I said, you would understand why I said it and what is between the lines.
August 1, 2019
Disktrasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massile

This topic shouldn't be about "what is morally correct to do in an RDF; Is Needrolling OS ok, because Blizzard did it, is this and that ok?". All of these questions shouldn't even arise and is a result of a lackluster effort in implementing the rule properly and in detail.

This is why Blizzard wouldn't touch this with a 10 feet pole.
I'm really for this rule is some moderation, but for offspecc rolling low ilvl items from RDF and Need rolling on BoE's? I truly find that ludicrous.
We all understand that some fresh players are trying to gear up in RDF's and its super annoying when someone needs on the gear that you do, but to bann them for rolling on offspecc?
Implement a infraction system like on Forums, where if you break the rule you get a warning first, if its repeated you will recieve a bann for it. (For RDF's offspecc rolls only obviously)
But even stating that I find ridiculous that you have to queue as a DPS if you want to roll DPS items, This will only increase the queue time for RDF's even more since less people will queue as Tanks.
because just like @Massile is saying it was fine on Blizzards realms and Warmane is after all trying to keep it as original as possible. Right now there is too many grey areas, and it's only being abused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrylol

I'm not the one who want's to make some stuff up, that people should leave if they are not ok for tank to need on dps items. Impose unfair crap.

Well you just did make that up because I didnt stated that people should leave, if for EXAMPLE the DPS wants to roll tank items cause hes allready super geared on his DPS specc, He can't sign up as Tank cause he dont have Tank gear, and greed rolling as we all talked about before isn't a good solution.
Then implying that the DPS should wait for a RDF (for god knows how long because he will have deserter ontop of that) where the Tank agree's with those conditions will be reduced even further if Tanks can't join to roll on THEIR offspecc, Do you understand how this all collides?

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrylol

because they don't want to wait in que with their OS like every single person does.

That's also made up.
August 2, 2019
angrylol

I was talking about topic in general. I don't know if you said it or not. And nothing collides, tanks can roll their os, there is just condition that they have to give first pick to people with MS in that role. And yes, there is problem iwth greed/de, but you have a mouth and you can talk to your group about it.

And when I gear up os and every other person I know gears their os - they que with their geared ms, farm up some eots and get whatever they can with greed rolls till they can que with os. Also they talk it out with group, maybe they are ok with letting tank need on stuff. If not, greed stuff and just get eot's.

Seems fine and fair to everyone involved, nothing is made up. I can't understand why you don't see it as fair towards everyone?

To me it seems topic wants Warmane to let tanks roll other specs as MS because "que is long as dps" and "I don't want to even try to talk to my group because they will most likely say NO, those SELFISH bastards, how dare they expect to get priority for their MS?", "excuse me I AM trying to gear my os here, step aside I AM walking here!"
August 2, 2019
Gnimo

Every end game guild I was in so far worked like this:
You enter a raid as the thing they need (or the thing you want, after you : DPS/Healer/Tank, you say what gear you are rolling: DPS/Healer/Tank, regardless of your role, and if you have DKP and are willing to spend the most, you win an item.

In the guild on Horde I joined recently when I made a new FDK, rules wer simple:
No offspec.
Reason for that is simply: it was a progression guild, that had hard time killing PP and Sindra on HC, so, gearing people that will help guild progress first, is perfectly reasonable.

PUGS, on the other hand, are COMPLETELY different, since you join them for 1 reason only: ITEMS.
There is no need for progression over time, there is no need to gear people that are actually going to help the "pugs" more, its simple, you target an item/items you want, you join with whatever you feel like will increase the chances of you killing the boss you need the item from, and you roll for it hoping you will win.

Also, I really dont know, blows my mind tbh, how can u compare a RAID that is A LOT HARDER to complete, has a WEEKLY reset timer, with a DUNGEON that you can do DAILY.

My personal view on the topic is this:
Join whatever spec that will help the clearing of a dungeon faster, state the gear you are rolling for, and just storm trough it.
You lose the item? Pretend it didnt drop and come back tomorrow. Or, simply go form a grp of ToC/FoS/PoS/HoR and take healers/tanks that dont roll MS dps.
Bans for items that are 200ilvl epics from the last boss, shouldnt even exist in the first place, since the RDF roll system is already there to prevent people that cant use those items get them.

If you join a RDF, public service, and someone wants to roll a different spec, its your own fault.
If you want just DPS to roll for DPS, and Healer/Tanks not to roll for same items, make your own group, and than que.
Noone should be forced to leave and get a 30min deserter, just cos you are a butthurt snowflake.
August 2, 2019
angrylol

Sure, in guilds and private parties you make whatever rules everyone agrees upon, that is clear and obvious.

I join as DPS(RDF of coarse because topic is about that), someone wants to take items I have priority to roll and it's my fault. Public service, right, because I join RDF to gear someones os and upgrades I need are forfeit.. because reasons.

No one has to leave, you join as tank, by accepting it you forfeit your claim to roll priority on other roles. Clear, logical and fair towards everyone. You say people should let other roles roll on their role items and if they don't they are butthurt snowflakes, you operate at next level irony. Tanks who want to roll on other roles as MS and want Warmane to threat others with banhammer if they don't let them is some "butthurt snowfalke" stuff, likes I have never seen - if you still didn't get it.
And by your logic what is the point of these rules at all, if you don't mind shearing your perspective?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnimo

If you want just DPS to roll for DPS, and Healer/Tanks not to roll for same items, make your own group, and than que.

Here I'll fix it for you:
If you want tanks to roll for DPS/healer items, make your own group, and then que.
August 2, 2019
Skoobydoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnimo

Also, I really dont know, blows my mind tbh, how can u compare a RAID that is A LOT HARDER to complete, has a WEEKLY reset timer, with a DUNGEON that you can do DAILY

The rules should apply to all of the content, you cant just midpick and say " I consider this to be a lot harder so you cant do it here, but sure you can do whatever you like there", that's not how rules work. And wtf do you mean harder, ICC is a joke for the most parts, unless its HC progression. Look at Gunship fight, or Saurfang they are easier then half of the hcs. should you be able to roll for whatever you feel like on them just because they are not hard? And what is the threshold that make a content be consider "hard" so you can't ninja loot there? If we had Cataclysm HC dungeons hard level does that mean you cant ninja loot items there because dungeons are hard?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnimo

You lose the item? Pretend it didnt drop and come back tomorrow. Or, simply go form a grp of ToC/FoS/PoS/HoR and take healers/tanks that dont roll MS

Hey if someone beat you up on the street and steal your money, pretend it didn't happen and just go back to work tomorrow and make more money. Don't be a butthurt snowflake, just pretend it didn't happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnimo

If you join a RDF, public service, and someone wants to roll a different spec, its your own fault.
If you want just DPS to roll for DPS, and Healer/Tanks not to roll for same items, make your own group, and than que.
Noone should be forced to leave and get a 30min deserter, just cos you are a butthurt snowflake.

Well tnx god people like you are not the one to make the rules on Warmane.
August 2, 2019
Disktrasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrylol

Impose unfair crap because they don't want to wait in que with their OS like every single person does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrylol

And when I gear up os and every other person I know gears their os - they que with their geared ms.

hmmmm how contradictory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

so you can't ninja loot there? If we had Cataclysm HC dungeons hard level does that mean you cant ninja loot items there because dungeons are hard?

Again, where does it clearify that rolling items for offspecc is considered ninja?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Hey if someone beat you up on the street and steal your money, pretend it didn't happen and just go back to work tomorrow and make more money. Don't be a butthurt snowflake, just pretend it didn't happen.

Again it's not stealing, it's a roll system, now your over exaggerate a lot.
it could be compared more like a lottery system, where you and me both throw a dice and whoever gets the highest roll wins, if I have more money then you, then you think "I need that money more then you cause you have more then me allready" EVEN if i can use that money too.

Talking it out with other people is allways the bests solution but it dosen't allways work, Telling "EVERYONE" to premade RDF's if they want to MS roll their offspecc is like telling "EVERYONE" to stop selling things on global, People find the easyest way to do or obtain something and they will do it.
And printscreening every single RDF you enter is the worst ****ing solution I ever heard of, Honestly.

Warmane needs to keep this as "Blizz like" as possible, because the majority of players don't even touch the forums and even when news about stuff is out on the front page it never gets close to the same views as there's players playing, and there's litteraly tons of people who will get punished for some made up rule that most will just find plain stupid.
Even stating that I stand behind the ninja looting rules, but only if it is indeed "ninja looting".
August 2, 2019
Gnimo

@skoobydoo
Again, you miss the point. I never took "how hard the item is to get" as an argument. You made that **** up like most of the things u said.
What is mind blowing to me is how can you compare the two, and how can you be butthurt about an item from a 5m grp, nothing else... ESPECIALLY the 200ilvl ones from Nexus for example.
But just to humor you, let me ask you this: How long does it take to fill a 5m grp and a 25m grp?
Is it easy to reach Gunship and Saurfang? Is it easy to waste a save on 4 bosses only and wait another week to go further inside?
How many times have you cleared FoS and PoS and HoR and ToC over a 4/12 25m ICC? We all know your answer to this question, but the thing im looking forward to is some next level dumb comparison after it. :D

"Hey if someone beat you up on the street and steal your money, pretend it didn't happen and just go back to work tomorrow and make more money. Don't be a butthurt snowflake, just pretend it didn't happen."
This is by far the dumbest thing u said and used as a comparison, I dont even know how to answer it but to laugh my *** after rereading it multiple times. :D

@angrylol
No need to fix anything for me tbh. I know what i said and i stand behind it. Thanks tho, for atleast caring.

Noone ever said anything about forfeiting or giving people free OS items. I dont know if the two of you can even read and try to reason at this point. You are acting like i am attacking the free world atm.
My point was never "let people do what they want to" "let all hell break lose", it was simple that, 200ilvl epics, and rares, are not worth the time of both GMs reading those tickets, and people getting banned for it.

If you can sleep well at night after u ban someone for 5 days after a 200ilvl epic, that you will already replace the next day you log in the game, so be it.
Its not the end of the world, if you roll against 1 extra person for an item that every single one of you will replace within a week, and REPORTING someone over this kind of dumb thing is just a sign of how low your social skills and tolerance are.
We all hate losing items to someone else, but this is just some next level butthurt thing to do.
Dumb people abuse this system way too many times, hell, i can get in a random grp out there, and just make a random report to someone cos of spite, while he did nothing wrong. I cant lose anything, the best my made up report will get removed, but he can lose a lot.
The only way for this to be fixed is if system only worked for raid items (which it should), or if GMs took a bit more time into it (which i doubt will happen).
August 2, 2019
Bastardbottle

They should only ban people whose are needing items for selling/disenchanting purposes. Too many people abuses this system with wrong reports.
August 2, 2019
angrylol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

hmmmm how contradictory.

There is nothing contradicting there. Join as TANK and GREED on DPS items all day long, till you can que as DPS and NEED on DPS items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

Again, where does it clearify that rolling items for offspecc is considered ninja?

Tell that to all these countless people who got banned for exactly that. I'm talking about NEED on things without any permission from people in those roles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnimo

Noone ever said anything about forfeiting or giving people free OS items. I dont know if the two of you can even read and try to reason at this point. You are acting like i am attacking the free world atm.

Well, you say it should be ok to NEED on dps items as TANK by default. That's what it seemed to me and I strongly disagree with that. Umm... sorry if I misunderstood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnimo

My point was never "let people do what they want to" "let all hell break lose", it was simple that, 200ilvl epics, and rares, are not worth the time of both GMs reading those tickets, and people getting banned for it.

I 100% agree. And I can add that order would arise even without rules - like it has been 15 years already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnimo

If you can sleep well at night after u ban someone for 5 days after a 200ilvl epic, that you will already replace the next day you log in the game, so be it.
Its not the end of the world, if you roll against 1 extra person for an item that every single one of you will replace within a week, and REPORTING someone over this kind of dumb thing is just a sign of how low your social skills and tolerance are.

Yeah, that what happens when you give people "moral high ground", everything turns "black or white" with no middle ground. But rules are rules, no matter how people excuse it in their heads, they still broke rules. Doesn't matter how petty it is. That's why I always say that this is not good.
August 2, 2019
Disktrasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrylol

There is nothing contradicting there. Join as TANK and GREED on DPS items all day long, till you can que as DPS and NEED on DPS items.

You take part of this discussion but you have 0 clue on what we just talked about 1 page earlier, you were there, you even agreed how greed rolling with other people is a bad idea, when everyone else greed rolls to NPC items or and how it shares the DE prio. And here you go again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrylol

Tell that to all these countless people who got banned for exactly that. I'm talking about NEED on things without any permission from people in those roles.

What? do you even know what your talking about? "Again, where does it clearify that rolling items for offspecc is considered ninja?" It dosen't, it something GM's will take a decision on regarding on what they feel is ninja or not. What does it matter if i tell other people... you know what I have had enough of you all together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrylol

Yeah, that what happens when you give people "moral high ground", everything turns "black or white" with no middle ground. But rules are rules, no matter how people excuse it in their heads, they still broke rules. Doesn't matter how petty it is. That's why I always say that this is not good.

Except THERE ARE NO RULES FOR THIS, what part of this discussion is so hard to fit inside your head, just leave it all together and do ous all a favor. I swear to god your not even readin what is said so many times before.
Your arguements are compleately unnecessary and unrealistic. Kthnxbye.
August 2, 2019
Skoobydoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

Except THERE ARE NO RULES FOR THIS,

So if there is no rules for this, why exactly people get banned?
August 2, 2019
Disktrasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

So if there is no rules for this, why exactly people get banned?

So if there's rule about this please post them here so we can all se them.
or are you talking about your moral opinion in which you call "rule"?
"Morality is open to interpretation, Those who are vegan might consider meat-eaters immoral. Married people might consider divorces as immoral."
if someone strays out of one's moral boundaries should he be punished? because if that's the case, then every player should be banned for violating someone else's moral boundaries.
August 2, 2019
Skoobydoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

So if there's rule about this please post them here so we can all se them.
or are you talking about your moral opinion in which you call "rule"?
"Morality is open to interpretation, Those who are vegan might consider meat-eaters immoral. Married people might consider divorces as immoral."
if someone strays out of one's moral boundaries should he be punished? because if that's the case, then every player should be banned for violating someone else's moral boundaries.

I am not talking about morals, this have nothing to do with the discussion. I am not saying ninja-looting is morally wrong, or right, or neutral, i am saying if there is ninja looting rules they should apply for all group content. Arguments about how fast, easy accessible, or how much the items from specific dungeon is worth, do not excuse ninja looting. Gnimo for example keep throwing this arguments that because you can enter HCs daily and items are low ILV, you can roll for anything you like. This are arguments of scale and they can be used only to change the punishment of specific act, not to excuse the act itself.

Now on the point about ninja looting rules.

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2651921

"Because of increasing number of ninjas in raids we decided to step forward and enforce new rules. From now on players caught in act of ninja during a raid/dungeon run will be banned."

"If a VALID report was submitted, an In-Game Staff member will look into the matter and suspend ninja's account for 60 days (raids) or 5 days (dungeons). Ban length increases with repeated incidents per account."

So obviously they have a policy about ninja looting in Dungeons. They need to add a line to this rules that make it more clear what is the default loot rules are for dungeons, because as it is its kinda open to interpretation right now, but the fact they do ban you if you roll need for your off spec is making it pretty obvious what they consider ninja looting in dungeons.

Btw even you and Gnimo agree that in Raids default loot rules are you roll for the role you currently play. When Warmane is talking about ninja looting they include both Raids/Dungeons, i dont understand why you think ninja rules for Dungeons are different then raids?
August 2, 2019
Disktrasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

I am saying if there is ninja looting rules they should apply for all group content. This are arguments of scale and they can be used only to change the punishment of specific act, not to excuse the act itself.

So I came to think of something.
If I join a ICC 25 Pug run, and the leader haven't stated the loot rules yet cause we haven't started the first boss, 10 people are clearing trash and a ICC BoE drops, lets say "wodins necklese", All 10 people need on it, should I post bann report for all 10 of them? or just the guy who wins it?
Since there are no loot rules yet it goes under the same "rules" as RDF dosen't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

So obviously they have a policy about ninja looting in Dungeons. They need to add a line to this rules that make it more clear what is the default loot rules are for dungeons, because as it is its kinda open to interpretation right now, but the fact they do ban you if you roll need for your off spec is making it pretty obvious what they consider ninja looting in dungeons.

My point is it's not obvious AT ALL if there's no rules stating it.
I'm talking about need rolling BoE's and need rolling for your offspecc IF your mainspecc is geared enough to not ever need items in RDF's anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Btw even you and Gnimo agree that in Raids default loot rules are you roll for the role you currently play. When Warmane is talking about ninja looting they include both Raids/Dungeons, i dont understand why you think ninja rules for Dungeons are different then raids?

No and No I never stated that "In raids you should roll for the role you currently play on" I did however say this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

Everyone understands that in a raid 10 or 25man you need to stick to 1 specc for your main rolls but you can still change to your offspecc as it was your main, So why shouldn't you be able to do the same in RDF's? because there's no leader? what if people dissagree in your raid group about some people changing mainspecc, then they have to leave themself, why shall the tables turn around so compleately in RDF's?

We talked a lot about this before but il repeat myself, (like I need to do way often cause it seems you guys don't even read whats said before), who can decide if you are allowed to roll something else, if I want to roll need on my offspecc who gives the other 4 people i the party the "leader role" all of the sudden? just because some think so?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

I find ridiculous that you have to queue as a DPS if you want to roll DPS items, This will only increase the queue time for RDF's even more since less people will queue as Tanks.
If for EXAMPLE the DPS wants to roll tank items cause hes allready super geared on his DPS specc, He can't sign up as Tank cause he dont have Tank gear, and greed rolling as we all talked about before isn't a good solution.
Then implying that the DPS should wait for a RDF (for god knows how long because he will have deserter ontop of that) where the Tank agree's with those conditions will be reduced even further if Tanks can't join to roll on THEIR offspecc, Do you understand how this all collides?

This is getting out of hand, do we need 10 more pages of people saying the same things over and over?

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