PRE-PULL SAVAGE ROAR
(VVARNING - HUGE VVALL OF TEXT UP AHEAD!)
Disclaimer: Look, I suspect that some users are already aware of the http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46780 and its possible applications in raids, but since there isn't a dedicated post concerning feral cats, I decided to write my thoughts here.
Thank you, Nap, for informing me about this item back in 2022.
I. Preface
Last year, when I worked on "Nuances in feral cat's gameplay", I observed the scenario when a person has CPs on a mob while SR is inactive during an idle period. Since we usually cast GotVV in those cases (e.g. Frostmourne chamber on LoD, waiting for BQL to land after the flight phases etc) and since SR doesn't consume the CC proc, I considered that it would be beneficial to refresh this finisher one second prior to jumping onto the boss again.
However, this doesn't narrow down only to idle periods in general. Let's take OS 3D for example. I know that in Classic VVrath players zerged the boss right from the get-go, but back on Frostmourne my guild used to kill the whelps one by one. Because of this, my RL told us to be idle at start until the first drake landed and then to burst it down. I, however, always disregarded that call. I preferred to attack the main boss for CPs which I used on SR right before the drake arrived. In order not to lose the procs of my trinkets, I swapped them during the 10-second pull timer (like, it takes 30 seconds for the first drake to swoop down), so I didn't hinder myself by playing like this.
The same effect can be achieved in ICC and potentially in RS with the help of http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46780.
II. General overview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctUcKojH0UY
(0:01 summoning the pinata; 0:17 - attacking it for CPs; 0:19 - 1:03 waiting for the trinkets' ICD to end; 1:03 engaging the boss)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGZQlI9teg
(0:03 summoning the pinata; 0:29 - attacking it for CPs; 2:20 attacking the dummy with SR; 3:05 the pinata despawned)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHGNStiwQTo
(can be used in ICC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk4W6ix6rGY
(0:05 Claw -> running away didn't remove the aggro; 0:34 re-entering the dungeon allowed me to keep the CPs and healed the pinata; 1:03 - Lacerate for 5/5 Agile)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiQiB8a8Pl8
(outside of a raid instance, it behaves like a normal mob, i.e. you lose aggro after leaving its aggro range)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvm4iL2FZRA
(resists the Mind Control effect of http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=7506)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_hgekPVpcw
(0:47 can help us obtain http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=23060 from http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=10725)
Observations:
- since the item is a "toy", it has infinite uses;
- 30-min CD;
- it can be used in raids;
- it can be used indoors;
- it doesn't despawn when the boss is engaged;
- 5.3k HP;
- it despawns automatically 3 mins after being summoned;
- it puts us in combat until it's killed or it despawns;
- the summoned pinata is marked as "mechanical", but it's not affected by http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47828 despite what this wowhead commenter said. Ye, the item's tooltip is correct on warmane;
- despite http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=7506p not mentioning a level restriction, it seems that this trinket is too weak for the lvl 80 pinata;
- summoning the pinata in a raid instance and trying to run away won't remove the aggro. Ye, I was aware of this behaviour from the start, but I wasn't sure whether it would also affect mobs, who were recently summoned in the raid instance.
Pros:
- can be used to help us generate CPs for SR before pulling the boss;
-> this not only allows us to begin with a buffed Mangle and AAs, but it also spares us potential energy, which can be used on Shred in the long run;
-> since SR would be active at start, we can apply Rip sooner;
-> it also allows us to get more value from STS since we're no longer required to refresh SR during its duration;
- can help us reach 5/5 http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=71175 with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=61896.
- if we have http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=10725, the chicken can also attack it and buff us with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=23060 more consistently.
- it lasts long enough to be present during DBS's and LK's RP events;
- can potentially help other raid members as well (e.g. combat rogues);
- can be placed by someone else, and you can still benefit from the effect.
Cons:
- it's not obtainable through normal means. One needs to purchase it from the store for 15 coins;
- it has a rather small HP pool and can easily be killed (especially by your fellow raid members);
- attacking it puts us in combat, which we cannot leave unless we kill the pinata or re-enter the raid instance;
-> not killing the pinata prematurely would prevent us from using two Haste pots in a boss fight;
-> other raid members can become annoyed if they enter combat as well (imagine someone buffs you, and they cannot eat Fish Feast or wtv);
- can proc our trinkets;
- [S P E C U L A T I O N!] in case the warmane staff doesn't approve the pinata's usage in raids, the item might be restricted in raid instances.
Commentary:
If we start a boss fight with SR already present, then our Mangle and first two AAs (assuming 0.7 attack speed) would be buffed, so we don't suffer any penalties from investing CP-generators in favour of this finisher. Instead, we go straight for Rip and refresh it two seconds earlier, which allows us to get an additional bleed tick. Compare:
Another argument in favour of this play is the preserved energy, which we would most likely invest in Shred. Let's imagine a 3-min fight, where we also use SR with 5 CPs (let's stick with this just for the sake of simplicity). If we don't summon the pinata and cast SR pre-pull, we need to cast SR six times:Quote:
Mangle -> SR -> Rake -> Shred -> Shred -> Rip
vs
Mangle -> Rake -> Shred -> Rip
If we pre-cast SR with 5 CPs, let's say we start the fight with 30-seconds duration. In that case, we will only cast five SRs during the actual boss encounter, which would allow us to preserve 25 energy:Quote:
0:01 - 0:20 (first SR from Mangle) -> 0:21 - 0:55 (second SR) -> 0:56 - 1:30 (third SR) -> 1:31 - 2:05 (fourth SR) -> 2:06 - 2:40 (fifth SR) -> 2:41 - 3:00 (sixth SR)
There's another benefit of having something to attack prior to the boss, which I didn't realise earlier. You see, if a person has http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=10725, he needs to activate it 45 seconds before the boss encounter begins, so that his STS can be active during the burst phase. As a result, this shortens the chicken's "life expectancy" by that much. Having something to attack earlier keeps the chicken occupied, which can increase the likelihood of us obtaining http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=23060.Quote:
0:31 - 1:05 (first SR) -> 1:06 - 1:40 (second SR) -> 1:41 - 2:15 (third SR) -> 2:16 - 2:50 (fourth SR) -> 2:51 - 3:00 (fifth SR)
Lastly, I'd like to talk about the possibility of us starting with 220 Agility from the get-go. If we use Lacerate once, it will be at its weakest state. Unlike Rake, which can inflict a lot of damage, 1-stack Lacerate would only "bruise" the pinata. VVith 220 Agility being present from start, we can immediately snapshot Rake and Rip with it. Compare:
Now, let's discuss the negatives. VVhen attacking the pinata, we inevitably proc our trinkets. As you already know, STS's ICD lasts 45 seconds, whereas DBVV's - 105. For that reason, the most optimal timing for the pinata is when we are passive for at least 100+ seconds. VVhile it's not impossible to imagine that a RL would set a 2-min pull timer before every boss, in reality no one would wait for us to get value out of the pinata. Knowing this, we can expect to use it mostly on DBS and on the LK because they have an RP event at start. On theory, it should also be possible to use the pinata in RS. Even if the pull timer is, say, 30 seconds, people usually need more time to prepare before the fight begins. VVe could place the pinata near the edges of Halion's arena right after killing the General, claw it for some CPs, leave the instance and re-enter it. As long as the raid engages the boss in less than 3 mins after us summoning the toy, we can safely gain CPs from it.Quote:
{only SR is used pre-pull} Mangle -> Rake -> Shred -> Rip (everything up to this point has 0/5 Agile)
vs
{SR and Lacerate are used pre-pull} Mangle -> Rake -> Shred -> Rip (everything up to this point has 5/5 Agile)
Another negative aspect of this play is entering combat and not being able to leave it unless the pinata is destroyed. This is bad when the person also wants to pre-pot with the Haste potion. In order to circumvent it, the feral player needs to kill the pinata 5-10 seconds prior to engaging the boss, which would shorten SR's duration a bit (btw, this also concerns the case with RS if you want to gain 5/5 Agile procs because you need to use Lacerate 15-28 seconds before the fight starts).
Even then, the biggest dealbreaker for this theorycraft is imho the second counter-argument. I'll go off-topic for a bit and share a story of my earlier raiding days with <Storm>. Since the guild hadn't killed Halion 25 on HC back in 2019, we were rly trying hard to get the tactics right and to squeeze in as much damage as possible. There was a demolock, who used the http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=44844 to summon a turkey and get the SP buff from his pet demon. NGL, it was hilarious to kill the critter just to ruin that guy's mood. But, ye, this is my point - don't expect people to respect your pre-ogrener tactic. They will grieve you for ****s and giggles, especially if they're fed up with entering combat whenever they buff you.
One last thing. The following is my personal speculation, but I can imagine that the warmane devs restrict the pinata's usage in raids if they don't approve its combat applications there. Should such change be implemented, it would be justified and I'd like to explain why. Let's go off-topic once again and talk about the infamous world buffs in Vanilla VVoVV. From what I've heard, the devs had desired people to get some "cool" buffs while leveling. VVhat ended up happening (at least, years after Vanilla's release) was that players went to collect the world buffs before every single raid lock-out for optimal performance, which was not anticipated by the devs. However, there's a difference between creating a buff/item which directly enhances combat stats and a vanity buff/item, which also happens to have niche combat usages. My point is that http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46780 has pure cosmetic value, and if the warmane devs want to preserve it like this, they can rightfully do it. If someone purchases the pinata for 15 coins, and the item ends up being "nerfed", please don't lash out on the staff. Understand the potential risks and buy it with this outcome in mind.
III. An alternative approach (NOTHING VVORKS)
Up until today (28.11.2023), I thought that an alternative approach of getting CPs before the start of the fight would be going to the nearest faction city, attacking a target dummy and waiting for a summon from a warlock. Unfortunately, that doesn't work as you can see in these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiS082yvVbw
(I lost the SR buff after leaving the old continent)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK7O6c6B9Lc
(I lost the SR buff after entering ICC)
However, as I'm updating this post I found a different solution in the form of another mech - http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=34113:
As you can see, despite the bot being able to repair my items, I was able to attack it and gain CPs. This is not an exploit or a bug, since according to wowhead this NPC is neutral:
Source: https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/npc=24...-110g#comments
{08.01.2024} As I'm updating this post, I regret to inform you all that the 110G is no longer attackable:
IV. Actual theorycrafting
Let's ignore all non-gameplay-related counter-arguments I've listed above and concentrate on how to use the pinata optimally. Since it has 5.3k HP, we need to use the weakest CP-generator in our arsenal, which would get us to 5 CPs but not kill the pinata. This ability is actually:
http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=1082
Using anything else would do more damage and even kill it. I can't believe I'm saying this, but for optimal pinata pre-pull rotation one needs to have Claw at rank 1. If that's not possible (which, I expect, for most of us won't be the case, and we can't downgrade it believe me, I tried), then you need to be ALMOST naked when clawing the pinata, which will prevent your AAs from killing the pinata (if one AA inflicts 3k damage, you'd hardly get 1-2 CPs from attacking the pinata). The only items you need to wear are the trinkets. The reason for this will become clear later. Since you'd enter combat after attacking the pinata, you won't be able to equip your items until you leave this state. For that reason, you need to kill it prematurely. If you are completely naked, you'd kill the pinata, say, 5 seconds before engaging the boss, and then you'd equip your gear. However, as a result you'd also trigger the ICDs of your trinkets. In other words, they will be inactive during the burst phase. This is why you need to have them equipped before summoning the pinata.
If what I wrote above sounds a bit confusing, here's my idea with fewer words in a chronologial sequence:
Yeah, there's a lot of **** to do, so I don't expect this idea to catch on. Btw, this regards the situation when you don't have http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=10725. If you have the chicken, and you want to benefit from everything, then this is what you now need to do:Quote:
0) You need to create two equipment sets. The first should consist of your current gear, whereas the second - nothing but your trinkets.
1) During the 100-second pull-timer, you need to swap your trinkets.
2) Summon the pinata.
3) Equip your "naked" set.
4) Use Claw until you get to 5 CPs.
5) 5-10 seconds before the boss fight begins, cast SR.
6) Kill the pinata.
7) Equip your items.
8) GotVV.
9) Haste pot 1-sec pre-pull.
Such an amazing pre-pull sequence, amirit? Just imagine for a bit how someone pranks you by ninja pulling the boss whilst you being naked. VVhat do we even get from all of this? VVell...Quote:
0) You need to create two equipment sets. The first should consist of your current gear, whereas the second - nothing but your trinkets.
1) During the 100-second pull-timer, you need to swap your trinkets.
2) Equip the chicken.
3) 45 seconds prior to engaging the boss, you need to activate the chicken's effect and equip STS.
4) Summon the pinata.
5) Equip your "naked" set.
6) Use Claw until you get to 5 CPs.
7) 5-10 seconds before the boss fight begins, cast SR.
8) Kill the pinata.
9) Equip your items.
10) GotVV.
11) Haste pot 1-sec pre-pull.
https://i.imgur.com/dQRA9VH.png
(no trinket procs)
- buffed Mangle at start = 10,467.97 (2,597.32 damage gain)
- 2 buffed AAs at start = 6,728.28 (1,669.42 damage gain)
- extra Rip tick = 4,984.65 (4,984.65 damage gain)
- 25 preserved energy = Shred*25/42 = 15449.57*25/42 (9,196.17 damage gain)
Damage gain so far: 18,447.56 or around 100 dps in a 3-min fight
Gz to the winner, I suppose. /s
It gets even "better" if you want to use http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48568 for 220 Agility at start:
Absolute ****ing masterpiece. /sQuote:
0) You need to create two equipment sets. The first should consist of your current gear, whereas the second - nothing but your trinkets.
1) During the 100-second pull-timer, you need to swap your trinkets.
2) Equip the chicken.
3) 45 seconds prior to engaging the boss, you need to activate the chicken's effect and equip STS.
4) Summon the pinata.
5) Equip your "naked" set.
6) Use Claw until you get to 5 CPs.
7) Use Lacerate 20-25 seconds before the boss encounter begins.
8) 5-10 seconds before the boss fight begins, cast SR.
9) Kill the pinata.
10) Equip your items.
11) GotVV.
12) Haste pot 1-sec pre-pull.
Anyway, knowing that we need to kill the pinata prematurely, let's say we do so 10 seconds prior to the boss fight which would earn us 24 seconds of SR uptime. Imho, killing the pinata around 10 seconds prior to the pull would give the player enough time to collect his thoughts, to re-equip his gear, to cast GotVV and to pre-pot with the Haste potion in peace. From there onwards, depending on how many CCs the person obtains during Berserk he might decide to squeeze in a FB or just refresh SR.
In the following lines, I will observe the energy amount for both the TF-Berserk and Berserk-TF openers:
TF-Berserk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90J8EwZlgeQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnzylUs9IQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78y_hjwB5XM
(0 CCs during Berserk)
Spoiler:Show
(1 CC during Berserk)
Spoiler:Show
(2 CCs during Berserk w/o FB)
Spoiler:Show
(2 CCs during Berserk w/ FB)
Spoiler:Show
comparing 2 CCs w/o Berserk vs w/ it
Spoiler:Show
(3 CCs during Berserk w/ FB)
Spoiler:Show
Commentary:
For the TF-Berserk opener, the only reason why there's no FB with 0 or 1 CCs is due to the fact that SR's and Rip's durations expire shortly after Berserk. Under normal circumstances, this wouldn't be a problem in and of itself, but the absence of TF makes generating CPs in that short time frame quite challenging. Not even the GotVV-shift would be able to justify FB with 18-24 energy. That's why the sole FB needs to be cast mid-Berserk, which is only possible in the presence of at least 2 CCs. Then, again, I feel like I need to bring up an alternative solution. In the past, I read somewhere in the old EJ forums that Berserk is best used when both SR and Rip are about to expire. Yes, from a pure energy- and CP-management standpoint, it would be better to delay Berserk by, say, 10 seconds. The sequence in that case would look like so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5_BsB2wNsc
(The trinkets got swapped at 0:54, which was the reason why I didn't have their procs at start. I didn't realise it yday.)
The advantages of this play are:Quote:
0) GotW + SR
1) Mangle [100 energy]
2) Rake [75 energy]
3) Shred [43 energy]
4) Rip [33 energy]
5) TF + Shred [61 energy]
6) Shred [30 energy]
7) GotVV [45 energy {instant cast spells last 1.5 seconds by default; for the sake of simplicity, I ignored spell haste}
8) Cat form [60 energy] {cat form lasts 1.5 seconds by default and is not affected by spell haste in general}
9) Shred with the CC [70 energy] //Rake expires after the GCD btw
10) Berserk [80 energy] 14 seconds remaining of Berserk //Rake is inactive for one second
11) Rake [72 energy] 13 seconds remaining of Berserk
12) Shred [61 energy] 12 seconds remaining of Berserk
13) Shred [50 energy] 11 seconds remaining of Berserk
14) Shred [39 energy] 10 seconds remaining of Berserk
15) Shred [28 energy] 9 seconds remaining of Berserk
16) Shred [17 energy] 8 seconds remaining of Berserk
wait a bit [21 energy] 7.6 seconds remaining of Berserk
17) Shred [10 energy from GCD] 6.6 seconds remaining of Berserk
wait a bit [13 energy] 6.3 seconds remaining of Berserk //by this point, SR's remaining duration is 5-6 seconds
18) SR [10 energy from GCD] 5.3 seconds remaining of Berserk
wait a bit [18 energy from GCD] 4.5 seconds remaining of Berserk //Rake expires in the meantime btw
19) Rake [10 energy from GCD] 3.5 seconds remaining of Berserk
wait around 1 sec [21 energy] 2.4 seconds remaining of Berserk
20) Shred [10 energy from GCD] 1.4 seconds remaining of Berserk
wait around 1 sec [21 energy] 0.3 seconds remaining of Berserk
21) Shred //Berserk expires immediately afterwards
22) Rip
- It allows us to get more value out of TF while still casting it at the start;
- VVe will be able to generate the needed CPs for both SR and Rip on time.
However, this still has a lot issues:
- Between 7) and 8), there's a 3-second idle time, where we pool energy. Casting GotVV and Cat form wastes a bit of STS value and with that - Hysteria value as well.
- There's still no opportunity to squeeze in a FB in Berserk unless the player acquires a lot of CCs from AAs and from Barkskin.
- Bad synergy with the GotVV-shift feat. idol swapping.
- A lot of unexpected **** can happen between 5) and 10), i.e. RNG will decide which abilities we'd actually use prior to Berserk and/or how long we would delay our big CD.
Let's address the negatives one by one:
- In the past, I considered swapping out STS, in order to delay its ICD by a bit. VVhile this approach may work with the majority of yellow abilities during Berserk, it would definitely fail to buff Rip since it's cast at the very end. STS at start is just obligatory because we get to snapshot two Rakes and Rip. Same thing goes to DBVV and Hysteria, which can buff two Rips. Delaying those would result in us snapshotting only one Rip, which would be detrimental to our dps.
- Although we're a lot more productive with our CPs during Berserk, we still cannot afford to cast FB because we would need the CPs for the other two finishers. That is unless we get 2+ CCs during Berserk, in which case we can bite the boss prior to SR. However, there's an issue with this play - we would be entirely dependant on RNG to provide us with the necessary amount of CCs. Like, let's compare TF-Berserk feat. the pre-pull rotation to what we're used to, i.e. unbuffed Mangle at start -> SR ->... -> Rip + refresh on SR during Berserk:
Since in the normal rotation we apply Rip at the beginning of Berserk, we have plenty of time to monitor the number of CCs from our AAs and to decide whether we should follow it up with SR or with FB. In the pre-pull rotation, we don't have that opportunity. The only optimal timing for FB is at the start, and we don't know whether RNG would bless us with 2+ CCs down the line, so it's a HUUUUUUUUGE gamble to cast FB.- Since we cast only one GotVV prior to Berserk, we cannot afford to swap idols. Idol of the Crying Moon needs to be present during Berserk, so that we don't lose the 220 Agility buff. This means that the only "viable" flowershifting variation is the one with /stopattack. I'd like to mention that a person could theoretically begin the fight with VVorship (like, imagine getting 220 Agility prior to engaging the boss and equipping Idol of VVorship), which he would then swap back to Crying Moon, but that requires a lot of micromanagement non-sense and is affected by my next argument:
- Despite what I wrote above, how we'll actually play depends on what RNG has in store for us between 5) and 10). It could give us a CC when we're planning to use TF, in which case we wouldn't follow it up with GotVV because we'd have too much energy. VVe'd need to go Shred w/ the CC -> Shred -> TF + Shred -> GotVV, which would leave us with less energy prior to Berserk and force us to stay idle for longer. This, by itself, would increase the second Rake's downtime and waste more STS & Hysteria value. In other words, delaying Berserk just for the sake of having an early TF would lead to unreliable/inconsistent openers.
Berserk-TF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pv8HpkHQ6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnSv7rPCdk4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zlAuu9kOwg
(0 CCs during Berserk)
Spoiler:Show
(1 CC during Berserk)
Spoiler:Show
(2 CCs during Berserk)
Spoiler:Show
(3 CCs during Berserk w/o FB)
Spoiler:Show
(3 CCs during Berserk w/ FB)
Spoiler:Show
comparing 3 CCs w/o Berserk vs w/ it
Commentary:Spoiler:Show
On the other side of the spectrum, Berserk-TF is able to include FB even in the presence of 0-1 CC all thanks to TF after Berserk. Moreover, the player has time to monitor the number of his CCs. If he gets at least 3, FB mid-Berserk is possible, and a there's also the possibility to cast one extra 2-3 seconds before Berserk ends with 18-24 energy (though, admittedly, that excludes the outcome of the player getting more CCs from AAs and/or energy from a resto druid; if the timing of Berserk is suboptimal for a second bite, you can always refresh SR instead). Since the cat player uses Berserk after the first Rake, i.e. there's no idle time, the opener offers consistency in the context of the pre-pull rotation.
Imho TF-Berserk is still a viable option, but only when the player can obtain an additional TF throughout the course of the boss fight.
