Stop the Grind: Huge Premades Are Killing Warmane PvP

It's funny how you guys discuss pages over pages about your social theories and server "trends" while in reality the cause of the issue and the solution are so simple:

Fully decked out PvPers don't need honor. There is no incentive for them to win BGs quickly and to care about objectives. So they rather just PvP instead.
The result is the HK farming meta that we can experience right now on the Wotlk high gear bracket.
BGs on the other brackets are played in a very different and more healthy way because players need the honor to gear up. On TBC and on the Wotlk low and mid tier bracket ppl actually care much more about objectives and there is much less braindead pvping than on Wotlk high gear bracket.

So whats the solution?
Very simple. Give fully decked out pvper on Wotlk a incentive to win BG. Make the amount of BG wins the E-Pen*s instead of the amount of HKs.
That can be done in many ways but it will requires custom conent and developer reccources:
1) rated BGs with vanity rewards.
2) Seasonal titels for BG wins
3) BG wins scoreboard instead of HK scoreboard

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Originally Posted by jmsvanbuskirk

Maybe we should find a time machine and go back 20 years to ask Blizzard.

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Players have been begging Blizzard for over 5 years to remove premades, but nothing happens, people are still playing premades.
By the way, on one previously popular server that was now closed by Blizzard, they quickly sorted out the premades and solved the problem.

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Originally Posted by Shred

Your argument, that a group of 10 well-geared, motivated, and coordinated players shouldn't win against 40 unmotivated and uncoordinated players who have alt-tabbed out, is so bad that I have to wonder if it was made in good faith.

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No, you misunderstood me. I meant that for premade you don't need a lot of people, even 5 people with one leader controlling the raid are enough.

Another solution would be to implement a system similiar to the Classic WoW Honor System with its progressive ranks. Rewards for ranking up could be vanity items and custom titels.

- At the end of each week the total honor earned is used to calculate your rank.
- Rank Decay: A portion of your accumulated rank is lost each week so you need to consistently earn honor to maintain or increase your rank.
- There are 14 ranks in total. Each rank gives you a different custom titel and access to vanity items such as a recolored T-mog set, companions or Mounts.
- The rank system can be toggled on/off via Warmane website.
- Honor points are used for the same items like now. Spending honor points has no effect on your rank. Only the total weekly honor earned affects your rank.

Such system would shift the HK farm meta to a BG win meta and quality in BGs would increase dractically.

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Originally Posted by Brutone

Such system would shift the HK farm meta to a BG win meta and quality in BGs would increase dractically.

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Would it shift it away from premades winning? It seems to me graveyard farming is just a consequence of premades and "shifting the focus" would just shift the complains.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Would it shift it away from premades winning? It seems to me graveyard farming is just a consequence of premades and "shifting the focus" would just shift the complains.

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The goal of the premade would be to win fast and efficient so they earn the maximum amount of honor in short time.
Randoms would no longer be bothered by hours long GY ganking because the BG would be over after a couple of minutes.
So yes, I think it would drastically improve the situation for randoms.

Also I believe that premades would no longer queue up in a size bigger than 5.
Getting a whole raid in the same BG requires longer queue times and queuing up for specific BGs wouldn't be worth it due to the bonus honor for Random BG.
So premades would probably queue up as 5 to maximise the honor gained. 5 man premades are less of a pain to deal with for randoms.

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Originally Posted by Brutone

The goal of the premade would be to win fast and efficient so they earn the maximum amount of honor in short time.
Randoms would no longer be bothered by hours long GY ganking because the BG would be over after a couple of minutes.
So yes, I think it would drastically improve the situation for randoms.

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You think what randoms are looking for is "losing faster"? I'm not setting any money down on that...

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

You think what randoms are looking for is "losing faster"? I'm not setting any money down on that...

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Well, it's not like randoms are facing opponent premades in every BG. It can also happen that the premade is either on their side or there is no premade at all.
But if the worst case happens the pain would be over after a short time.
I think it would be a better experience for randoms.

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Originally Posted by Brutone

Well, it's not like randoms are facing opponent premades in every BG. It can also happen that the premade is either on their side or there is no premade at all.

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Of course, it doesn't happen every single time. But either it doesn't happen enough to require any change at all, and your suggestions of extra rewards to encourage winning are unnecessary, or it happens too much, and then your suggestion sounds like "hey, instead of having to take a swim in a pool of ****, you just have to get a piss shower!" for the randoms. Which is it?

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Of course, it doesn't happen every single time. But either it doesn't happen enough to require any change at all, and your suggestions of extra rewards to encourage winning are unnecessary, or it happens too much, and then your suggestion sounds like "hey, instead of having to take a swim in a pool of ****, you just have to get a piss shower!" for the randoms. Which is it?

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Not only randoms would benefit from the ranked system.
I think the pvp scene as a whole would benefit from such a change:
- it would give pvpers who already have everything some new goal on our aging Wotlk realms.
- BGs would be more competitive and team play more important
- the whole rank system could be made optional so ppl who don't like it can just disable it like T-mog.

Only downside I see is that it requires development ressources to implement such system but once Onyxia progresses to wotlk I hope that devs who previously worked on TBC find some time to implement some changes on our aging Wotlk realms.

Ye Ye at least nice that Moderators understanding that we swimming in pool of **** and that's long enough, I just leaving every vs premade game now and just closing WoW for 15 mins and this happens 7-15 times a day, so better then lose population of server is to decide somehow how to improve this aspect, I'm thinking about it and I'll provide solutions soon if we together community and devs might make this PvP a bit better and enjoyable.

Here's a wild suggestion. We do the same thing as Call of Duty. When your character gets full BIS gear then you have the option to prestige your character. Your gear will be completely stripped and you're set to level 1 while still maintaining all your achievements and HK etc. All you do is put a cool symbol next to their name or give them some title. Anything that signifies a superior player will make people want to do it. You could go up to prestige 20 if you wanted.

With a feature like that you'd have players buying a lot of gear and donating, but also it would take players out of the top bracket and distribute them back into the progression part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Brutone

(...)

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That didn't address anything of what you quoted (if anything, you talk like it said the opposite of what it does).
Try again: which is it?

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

That didn't address anything of what you quoted (if anything, you talk like it said the opposite of what it does).
Try again: which is it?

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hey, instead of having to take a swim in a pool of ****, you just have to get a water shower!
Instead of piss it would be a water shower because randoms would face mostly 5 man premades and not large scale premades as I pointed out.

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Originally Posted by Brutone

hey, instead of having to take a swim in a pool of ****, you just have to get a water shower!
Instead of piss it would be a water shower because randoms would face mostly 5 man premades and not large scale premades as I pointed out.

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Based on what? Why would people who want to win new prizes suddenly stop making a move that assures their win just about every single time they manage to get grouped? Sorry, I was expecting arguments, not being "pointed out" crystal ball readings.