[Guide] Retribution PvP 3.3.5a

there is definitely an argument to be made for bryntroll in its current state due to bugs but im not convinced about the 2h wf; wrathful mace and board seem the way to go for a defensive swap. Makes u much tankier than wf 2h and gives ya stronger+much more frequent heals sooo many AoW procs. Downsides are ofc losing a gcd to 'switch stances' and losing basically all offensive pressure for the duration of the swap..

The only reason I say avoid Bryntroll is because it's a potentially bad investment given it might start working as intended.

You also lose damage. You can't swap to your damage weapon, hit CDs, etc. and expect the enemy to leave you alone.

Also since ur using wf 2h for the resil would it not be feasible to simply stick to gloren/bryntroll and swap out one of the pure off stat trinkets for the medallion or better yet the 1000ap proc resil trinket from wg? I am curious if the dps loss from this exceeds the dps loss from using wf over gloren. I feel like it shouldn't, at least for white hits and crusader/divine storm

Depends on the comp, the comp you are facing, arena bracket and preference on resilience numbers. Also, Bryntroll is not feasible in the environment where you would absolutely want the Wrathful weapon because it requires you to be hitting something. You won't always be hitting something when playing a support role. If you're playing double-dps in 2's with a Hunter, for example, you can probably get away with playing Human, Bryntroll and double pve trinkets. If you're playing resto-sham/ret or disc/ret, you'll want a stronger pve weapon though. Shadowmourne, Glorenzelg or Oathbinder, depending on your confidence. If you're playing 3's, in most cases you're going to want to get as much resilience items as possible, especially if you're in a triple-dps comp. Which means both the Wrathful weapon and the resilience trinket. In that case in particular, it's probably best to be Dwarf or Draenei though.

Personally, I hang onto all 3 weapon choices; Shadowmourne, Bryntroll and Wrathful weapon. I also keep my trinkets with me, including resilience pvp trinket, DC heroic and WFS heroic for pvping. I alternate between the items depending on the situation I'm up against. Anyone who is serious about being competitive in pvp, I would suggest doing the same so you can be versatile and adjust your setup for each situation.

I'm also not personally fond of swapping to a 1h/shield. I can get behind using caster weapon/shield for more SP for bigger flashes. However, doing so also means you can't do damage. I don't want to waste that time swapping back to damage weapons if I need to jump on someone, as that is wasted time. Timing can be everything sometimes.

Shadowmourne + pvp trinket vs. Wrathful weapon + double pve trinkets = a difference of about 21 resilience.
However, when you combine the resilience of both, you can become quite resilient to damage. Before even calculating gems into my full-resil setup, I can reach 1386 resil. With my current gems, I'm sitting at 1496 resil, and I have the ability to push it even further if I wanted to (50 more resil before I even have to sacrifice socket bonuses).

Yeah, resil comes at the cost of other stats, but if you're playing a support role for support damage and support heals, you can find that you can be very annoying and near unkillable. Sure, you won't kill anything on your own with such a setup, but you're not supposed to as a support role - you are there to assist.

Not everyone plays that way though, and I recognize that. Bryntroll, again, can be good in its current state if you are sticking to a target and you are going to be the primary target of the enemy. If you're not always going to be on the enemy (LoSing, hiding to avoid damage, etc.), then Wrathful weapon may be better. Glorenzelg/Shadowmourne is obviously the choice for raw damage.


Sorry for the... um, wall of text.

no worries its good insight

mine gets by on 1100 resil anyway

What 1 hand/shield should I be using as a starter with no access to arena weapons atm?

Depends on what you have access to. Any weapon (ones that a paladin can wield, obviously) that has a bunch of spellpower and crit and a shield that has spellpower, crit and/or resilience on it would be items you want to aim for. The easiest to access "starter" 1h/shield I suppose would be Saronite Spellblade and Saronite Protector. You could get some from dungeons (don't ninja them from a healer though), among other places, that are better.

In terms of arena, and for the weapons available through vote points, would you use Constellus or the i239 Furious Glad mace? And for shields, would it be Furious Glad Barrier>Shield Wall>Redoubt?

Constellus would be a very good choice. As for the Furious Glad shields, I would definitely suggest going for the Barrier.

Can anyone explain how the hell is death choice/verdict bis pvp? it's 288 ap + 510 + 76 str (15% from talent) makes it 1460 ap when trinket procs
so thats less AP than STS that gives plus the sts gives armor pen which is nice around 30% on retri when u have off set hc pve that helps u melt down an enemy a lot.
I would take STS over ****y death verdict anyitme, combined with WFS. Yes i am retribution and i'm on 1.950 rating as ret/unholy combo plus my main set is relentless full, off set pve(3 parts)
Most ******ins talk how dc/dv is bis, i rly don't see how, plus no pala did ever explain it or could cuz they are clueless and can't do the maths obviously.
Anyway this comment was not meant for the owner of the guide, but for the general paladin population that are clueless. As for your guide i think it's great and you put so much effort in it. :-)

in short.
rets in pvp are supports with huge bursts. DV hc gives 288 ap passively. The [Sheath of Light] talent converts 30% of your ap to spell power, which is more beneficial in a lets say arena environment than having 184 passive arp which benefits you in no other way than dmg output.

think this should summarise why sts isnt the clear bis trinket you thought it would be.

Thanks for answer, so basicly they take 86 spell power passive over 50 more ap and 10% or more armpen, and STS does proc a lot, idk i crit heals around 6k, my heal is fine. Problem was no pala was able to explain it, cuz they all copy each other lol.
I just prefer STS+WFS gives me insane dmg/crit. When i get my wrath set i'll go over 2k hopefully :-)

dc + wfs > dc + dc
crit also benefits off heals, in more ways than one
it's also more dps for every button
more hps
stronger proc
etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gagisha94

Can anyone explain how the hell is death choice/verdict bis pvp? it's 288 ap + 510 + 76 str (15% from talent) makes it 1460 ap when trinket procs
so thats less AP than STS that gives plus the sts gives armor pen which is nice around 30% on retri when u have off set hc pve that helps u melt down an enemy a lot.
I would take STS over ****y death verdict anyitme, combined with WFS. Yes i am retribution and i'm on 1.950 rating as ret/unholy combo plus my main set is relentless full, off set pve(3 parts)
Most ******ins talk how dc/dv is bis, i rly don't see how, plus no pala did ever explain it or could cuz they are clueless and can't do the maths obviously.
Anyway this comment was not meant for the owner of the guide, but for the general paladin population that are clueless. As for your guide i think it's great and you put so much effort in it. :-)

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What komodo said is spot on. The armor pen is not bad for damage, and the proc on STS is very good. It just suffers in terms of overall usefulness.

The spell power you get from a Death's Choice trinket does benefit your heals as mentioned before, but especially your Flash of Light casts, which you will get plenty of procs for instant casts. It also allows your Sacred Shield to provide more absorbs.

It's also flat additional damage to all of your skills, while armor pen only increases the damage of Crusader Strike, Divine Storm and auto-attacks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gagisha94

Thanks for answer, so basicly they take 86 spell power passive over 50 more ap and 10% or more armpen, and STS does proc a lot, idk i crit heals around 6k, my heal is fine. Problem was no pala was able to explain it, cuz they all copy each other lol.
I just prefer STS+WFS gives me insane dmg/crit. When i get my wrath set i'll go over 2k hopefully :-)

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Yes, 6k is fine, but you should also consider the benefits of Sheath of Light: healing for higher crits also means a bigger HoT afterward. Which in turn is stronger sustain. In addition to a boost to your Sacred Shield absorbs.
STS is a very powerful trinket, for sure, especially the proc. You can get away with using it just fine. It's just not considered the most optimal trinket.

Like the guy above me, my personal choice of trinkets are WFS+DC.

To end, there are a number of us around here on the forum that are happy to explain things that some people in-game may not be able to. So, if you have questions, this forum section is usually a good place to ask.