What happent with Lordaeron?

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Originally Posted by linkoynn

Time spent in lordaeron is supposed to feel more rewarding than spending it in any other realm, nerfing or making things faster makes time spent less rewarding.
You agree with me for the most part so ill answer only few things.
When u read on the realm its PvP it doesnt means its arenas and bg based, it means u can go out and kill ppl in the zones, a pve realm would mean that u wont be able to kill whoever u want while they are lvling. So the realm having pvp letters is completely irrelevant to bgs and arenas.
You are not taking away anything from pvpers, the server is meant to be pve hardcore and to attrack ppl that prefer the hard pve aspect, atleast in bigger proprotions. If the only way for pvpers to get the desired instant queue pop and every arena to be vs different players is to nerf / release faster things / enable rdf, then pvpers should wait and endure instead of crying that they have to wait or are fighting vs same players in arenas.
I played here a year ago, when there were queues, and guess what ? not only raids were gathering slower than now but the pvp aspect was the same as its now or maybe worse, everyone was crying about arenas and bgs being slow.
Lets face it, the only problems pvp players have are higher queue time and not much of a variety in arena matches.Now, compare this to the problems pve players are facing, there are problems that completely halt your advance as a pver and u cant do anything about it, not to mention that pvers are majority, but yet all i read, every day, is pvp guys asking for more players to wreck in bgs and arenas.
PvPer's point of view:
You are playing on a heavy pve oriented realm, u are in the minority of hardcore pvpers and your only complaint is not having different enemies and instant bg pops, your solution is simple. Nerf the pve content, make pve easier and faster so u attract more ppl (players that are 3 lvls below casual), so u can wreck newbs in instant bgs and hopefully in arenas too.

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-Never said anything about nerfing. I have said that RDF would not nerf the raids or instances. I am just saying that by enabling RDF, you will not just sit there and watch yourself fly. I know some people do something else often while flying, maybe chat on facebook or watch a youtube video, but is that really "time spent". Is it because you want to see it on "/played"?.

Do you really feel rewarded by spending hours searching for tank / healers, then fly - summon? I don't see whats so rewarding spending time sitting in a city, or mining, while you ask on repeat for a tank to do a daily.
I can see the part with no nerfing, but never said they should do that. So I can see the reward in that. More difficult.

-I will again ask, why have warmane invested time to actually make a pvp ladder - if this is so much more focused on pve?
-It is not about getting a instant queue to pop, it is about actually having a queue that pops instead of waiting minutes - hours..?
-Fighting the same players also destroys so much. What if you meat someone who is better / worse, the arena will be so one-sided. All the fun will be gone.

-There is no wonder why raids was gathering slower one year ago. People was badly geared compared to now, and the raids was way more buffed then they are now. People can easier pug now or include puggers, because of better gear and less buffed raids.
-The pvp queues has always been bad, but has become worse. I have been doing a lot of pvp, so I have queued a lot.

PvEer's point of view:
This is a pve related server, because there are buffed raids and you can't use RDF. (What do you expect to change in the pvp scene, to make it more pvp related? - there is nothing you can do to make it more pvp related then it already is (since it is more or less made to be blizzliky), except actally brining more competition). Don't think this server is just pve related because there are actually changes you can make, without breaking the game.

-You do know that there are arena rating, so we would not be able to wreck newbs. That is the problem now.. there is not many people, so you are either getting beat up or you are beating up - the same peoples over and over again.

we dont want to wreck newbs. It is just the contrary, we want some variety so that you win sometimes and you lose other times. Rigth now most of the times you find yourself queueing against the same team. Due to gear, skills or other factors, normally either you beat them all the time, or either you get beaten all the time. It can also happend to be even, but it rarely happens. So if you get to beat them all the time, they give up, don't queue and you can't play anymore. If you are the one getting beaten all the time you have two options, continue playing even though you now you are going to get nothing out of it, or stop playing...
And this if you play near peak times, if you get out of peak you don't even find a team to play against... the only moment you can actually enjoy a little arenas is weekend peak times...

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Originally Posted by OneOfAKind

-Never said anything about nerfing. I have said that RDF would not nerf the raids or instances. I am just saying that by enabling RDF, you will not just sit there and watch yourself fly. I know some people do something else often while flying, maybe chat on facebook or watch a youtube video, but is that really "time spent". Is it because you want to see it on "/played"?.

Do you really feel rewarded by spending hours searching for tank / healers, then fly - summon? I don't see whats so rewarding spending time sitting in a city, or mining, while you ask on repeat for a tank to do a daily.
I can see the part with no nerfing, but never said they should do that. So I can see the reward in that. More difficult.

-I will again ask, why have warmane invested time to actually make a pvp ladder - if this is so much more focused on pve?
-It is not about getting a instant queue to pop, it is about actually having a queue that pops instead of waiting minutes - hours..?
-Fighting the same players also destroys so much. What if you meat someone who is better / worse, the arena will be so one-sided. All the fun will be gone.

-There is no wonder why raids was gathering slower one year ago. People was badly geared compared to now, and the raids was way more buffed then they are now. People can easier pug now or include puggers, because of better gear and less buffed raids.
-The pvp queues has always been bad, but has become worse. I have been doing a lot of pvp, so I have queued a lot.

PvEer's point of view:
This is a pve related server, because there are buffed raids and you can't use RDF. (What do you expect to change in the pvp scene, to make it more pvp related? - there is nothing you can do to make it more pvp related then it already is (since it is more or less made to be blizzliky), except actally brining more competition). Don't think this server is just pve related because there are actually changes you can make, without breaking the game.

-You do know that there are arena rating, so we would not be able to wreck newbs. That is the problem now.. there is not many people, so you are either getting beat up or you are beating up - the same peoples over and over again.

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Do i really feel rewarded from doing something the only way its available to be done ? Yes i feel rewarded. While others are crying for rdf im actually doing it, and it doesnt bother me a tiny bit to gather a group at any lvl. Dont forget that dungeons are optional, and u dont have to do many of them, with rdf u just add another chore to the daily list of chores and even to a someone that was against it when it wasnt implemented will have to do it now.
Again, yes i feel rewarded for spending time in the game and achieving even the smallest of things, and if others are not doing their dungs or w/e because they cba to gather a group, join one or just be social and value others so u can make a group easier next time it makes it even more worth my time.

You said it yourself, you cant do anything change anything on the pvp scene to make it more pvp related, so explain to me what makes one realm a pvp one.
Realm says pvp because of world pvp, u cannot unflag yourself and thats it, a pvp realm would mean there are no raids and no lvling.
You are playing a pve game and asking for bigger community (not pvp one just bigger community in general ) on it, yet u cannot agree that there are enough players but they prefer to pve, because thats the best thing this realm can offer.
PvP ladder argument is so weak that its not worth mentioning / answering, but let me try to answer it. Because its standard ?
How about why it has pve ladder if its a pvp realm ? :D
Im not much of a pvper but heres my perspective.
Asking for variety because u either win or lose, if u are getting beat up hard or beating up someone hard, u know what that means ? it means u are still yet to get good enough for you wins to depend more on your skill rather than your matchup or luck, so u win only ez matches.

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Originally Posted by vertex1

we dont want to wreck newbs. It is just the contrary, we want some variety so that you win sometimes and you lose other times. Rigth now most of the times you find yourself queueing against the same team. Due to gear, skills or other factors, normally either you beat them all the time, or either you get beaten all the time. It can also happend to be even, but it rarely happens. So if you get to beat them all the time, they give up, don't queue and you can't play anymore. If you are the one getting beaten all the time you have two options, continue playing even though you now you are going to get nothing out of it, or stop playing...
And this if you play near peak times, if you get out of peak you don't even find a team to play against... the only moment you can actually enjoy a little arenas is weekend peak times...

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This sounds to me normal, after all everyone is lvling up chars, grinding, raiding, doing dailies, maybe some bg in between things, u know...the usual pveing.
The problem is some ppl expect alot of bgs and arenas because thats 90% of what they do, and u obviously wont find that with 12k online either, i mean... the realm used to have 12k online and still the same issues, again forum was flooded about pvp high queues and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by linkoynn

Do i really feel rewarded from doing something the only way its available to be done ? Yes i feel rewarded. While others are crying for rdf im actually doing it, and it doesnt bother me a tiny bit to gather a group at any lvl. Dont forget that dungeons are optional, and u dont have to do many of them, with rdf u just add another chore to the daily list of chores and even to a someone that was against it when it wasnt implemented will have to do it now.
Again, yes i feel rewarded for spending time in the game and achieving even the smallest of things, and if others are not doing their dungs or w/e because they cba to gather a group, join one or just be social and value others so u can make a group easier next time it makes it even more worth my time.

You said it yourself, you cant do anything change anything on the pvp scene to make it more pvp related, so explain to me what makes one realm a pvp one.
Realm says pvp because of world pvp, u cannot unflag yourself and thats it, a pvp realm would mean there are no raids and no lvling.
You are playing a pve game and asking for bigger community (not pvp one just bigger community in general ) on it, yet u cannot agree that there are enough players but they prefer to pve, because thats the best thing this realm can offer.
PvP ladder argument is so weak that its not worth mentioning / answering, but let me try to answer it. Because its standard ?
How about why it has pve ladder if its a pvp realm ? :D
Im not much of a pvper but heres my perspective.
Asking for variety because u either win or lose, if u are getting beat up hard or beating up someone hard, u know what that means ? it means u are still yet to get good enough for you wins to depend more on your skill rather than your matchup or luck, so u win only ez matches.

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Just to be clear, if RDF are being implemented I only want it to create the group and teleport (I don't want them to include the bouns exp and gold). I will accept that you feel reward spending more time just to find a tank and a healer. As you say, doing a dungeon is optional, so will it be with using RDF.

I do see that there is kind of a more social aspect by not having RDF. But where does "social aspect" actually start.
-Do really writing "LF2M Healer and tank for X dungeon" make you more social? In my opinion you are social when you are actually talking to the group itself, not just asking one question get a yes / no - or no answer. Think if you have RDF, meet new people a lot easier, and then actually start to talk.

As I said, you can't create a "blizzlike" pvp realm. That is impossible. The only thing you can do is to make a fair pvp realm that may be more or less blizzlike. This server is a good example of that. You get the leveling experince - where you can enjoy world pvp. You also have no donation nor point shop, that makes it fair to play. At end game you have the BGs, arenas and the world pvp. That is a perfect pvp server in my opinion.
-So are you telling me, that there can't be a pvp server, unless there are absolutely no pve to do? Should not be like that if you think so.

I am not saying this is a pvp focused realm, I am saying that this is a combination, and it is wrong to say that this is a pve realm.
-Why there is a pve lader. First of I would like to say, I got really sad you did not answer it and just turned the question around. To me that just shows lack of answer. You are saying it is standard, while saying this is a lot more "pve" related server. Why even have a pvp ladder, if we are just going to kill it?
Why there is a pve ladder. Just the same reason there is a pvp ladder. To have competition between players. To be able to see whos the best.

Of course it still means that I have yet to get better. But it should not work like that. There is a reason why there are divisions and leagues in diffrent sports and games. You don't place the best vs a average players. You place the average player against some one who is a bit less average or a bit better then average, depending on how good he/she is doing it the last games. Also playing with the same people does not only stop the "skill" part of the game. It also destroys a lot about the class part. Let us say we are playing against a healer + warrior, over and over again. When are we going to meet the dps + dps combo, if we are just playing against the same people?

Can u guys make it shorter? Anyway,pvp is half dead,standing on one last leg. Most of pvpers went on icecrown becouse of same reson: s8+icc,some of them left becouse of over hardcore scripts. Anyway,best realm of warmane to be on 2nd place becouse of? K.
If u replay to this with another book,aint gonna read it m8 :)

And no matter how were disputes about the RFD, PVP or something about blizzlike, nothing change will not be much. Rumors that the RFD will be with the opening of the final RAID. On the server a lot of guilds walking in the latest raids, but the newcomers is difficult, because almost nobody goes through dungeons a little level, to raise the level to have only the quests (RFD disabled), and to catch up with dressed players is practically impossible. Well, here most people who like hardcore in PVE, because there are still the raids are not blizzlike. The administration would not deviate from its rules, because people have a constant and still walk in the raids, but new players somehow do not care. Eventually online will fall further and remain solely of a group of players, and the rest will leave and new players virtually no.

I started here on the first day the server launched due to all the hype that it would basically be one of the best servers ever created to cater to people who wanted to experience the whole game. The lack of RDF was appealing, and because of it I made a lot more friends than I probably otherwise would have, and the buffed content made all the old encounters somewhat difficult again. I raided during the 60 cap, 70 cap, and cleared Naxx, but began to realize how dead the server was in some other regards. PvP in particular has been completely dead since the very beginning of the server, likely due to PvPers being too lazy to level 1x rates or have to actually try to get PvE offparts. You were basically barred from doing arena at all, with queues only happening during peak hour and facing the same teams over and over. Once the core was copied to Icecrown, the population was cut in half within weeks, which made it even less accessible for anything aside from guild raiding. TL;DR, Lordaeron has barely any active PvP, and it's a ghost town in comparison to Icecrown now.

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Originally Posted by Griste

I started here on the first day the server launched due to all the hype that it would basically be one of the best servers ever created to cater to people who wanted to experience the whole game. The lack of RDF was appealing, and because of it I made a lot more friends than I probably otherwise would have, and the buffed content made all the old encounters somewhat difficult again. I raided during the 60 cap, 70 cap, and cleared Naxx, but began to realize how dead the server was in some other regards. PvP in particular has been completely dead since the very beginning of the server, likely due to PvPers being too lazy to level 1x rates or have to actually try to get PvE offparts. You were basically barred from doing arena at all, with queues only happening during peak hour and facing the same teams over and over. Once the core was copied to Icecrown, the population was cut in half within weeks, which made it even less accessible for anything aside from guild raiding. TL;DR, Lordaeron has barely any active PvP, and it's a ghost town in comparison to Icecrown now.

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I agree with you, Lordaeron may have 6k players, but I have seen servers with 200 people that make lordaeron seem a ghost town, at least in terms of pvp. I'm starting to realize that I'll have to move to icecrown... ptw pvp is better than no pvp...

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Originally Posted by vertex1

I agree with you, Lordaeron may have 6k players, but I have seen servers with 200 people that make lordaeron seem a ghost town, at least in terms of pvp. I'm starting to realize that I'll have to move to icecrown... ptw pvp is better than no pvp...

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It's really sad, and its fact that Lordaeron pvp is almost non existant, i remember playing on other servers way back then with 1.5k peak pops, and arenas and battlegrounds were crazy, lordaeron is fukd up, can be fixed, but deevs don't seem motivated.

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...can be fixed, but deevs don't seem motivated.

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This is also because they dont think anything is wrong with this realm and they dont even think we feel like we are forgotten

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Originally Posted by cabalaba

It's really sad, and its fact that Lordaeron pvp is almost non existant, i remember playing on other servers way back then with 1.5k peak pops, and arenas and battlegrounds were crazy, lordaeron is fukd up, can be fixed, but deevs don't seem motivated.

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Thats the really sad part. The devs just say that it is up to the players to chose where they want to play. The devs say that they can't force the player to play on the server.
-Of course they can't force people, but they can make people want to join the server. The people that actually still play this server are giving the devs the information about what they should do, to actually make other people to join. Still the players are being pretty much ignored. Even when there comes an answer, I feel that we are completely denied (very often - not always). I guess I will have to move to Icecrown when I start playing again.

For example here:

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

1. There's nothing to do. The population as it is is more than fine. There's nothing declining, it's been stable for a long time.
2. Players play what they want. In 6000 players there's more than enough to play Arenas and Battlegrounds - if they want to do that. No player is forced to play either, nor is there anything to be done about it on the Staff end.
3. There are no "actual problems" with the population.
4 and 5. That's not "new standards," that's entitlement and a bit of delusion.
6. The population is fine for us. There's, again, nothing to "fix" as more than enough players play it the way we offer it.

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I totally agree with Obnoxious that 6000 is a fine number of players. Even tho, we got to admit that 5000-6000 players is not good enough to actually keep pvp scene of the server alive. Saying there is no "actual problem" is completely insane in my opinion. It is so obviouse that here are actual population problems.

He also claims that there is "more then enough players" - if it was more then enough, we would not complain. If it was "MORE then eough players" - the queues for pvp would not be as long. At least with the choise of those words, I won't agree with him. We may say that there is "more then enough players" for the pve scene, but not for the pvp scene.
As I have said, I may have to move on to Icecrown, wich I think is really sad, because Lordaeron is a great server with so much potential.

Parrdon, but I think you missed the part where he said "if they want to do that"

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Originally Posted by OneOfAKind

I totally agree with Obnoxious that 6000 is a fine number of players. Even tho, we got to admit that 5000-6000 players is not good enough to actually keep pvp scene of the server alive. Saying there is no "actual problem" is completely insane in my opinion. It is so obviouse that here are actual population problems.

He also claims that there is "more then enough players" - if it was more then enough, we would not complain. If it was "MORE then eough players" - the queues for pvp would not be as long. At least with the choise of those words, I won't agree with him. We may say that there is "more then enough players" for the pve scene, but not for the pvp scene.
As I have said, I may have to move on to Icecrown, wich I think is really sad, because Lordaeron is a great server with so much potential.

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you could have 20,000 players and not have an active pvp scene, all depends on if people want to pvp or not. and as lord is a hardcore raiding realm, i wouldnt expect the pvp to be that active.

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Originally Posted by Handepsilon

Parrdon, but I think you missed the part where he said "if they want to do that"

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Thats the problem. There are people that (if they) "want to do that", still they are not able to. Because of that people leave, and the problem becomes bigger, and even more people leave. Why not change things? Why not make even more people "want to do that".

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

you could have 20,000 players and not have an active pvp scene, all depends on if people want to pvp or not. and as lord is a hardcore raiding realm, i wouldnt expect the pvp to be that active.

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Yes, Lordaeron got hardcore pve content, but does that mean that it can't be pvpers? As I said in my previouse post, they should make people want to main pvp want to play too. There is a reason why people post on the forum about the dead pvp scene. That is because they WANT to DO that.

I seriously don't understand, yes things may be fine (people got diffrent opinions), but why not want to improve even more?