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Classic will be cool because :
- No PL by buff 30%
- No PL by stuff
- No Pay-To-GS
This buff 30% and this store is a abomination on this serv. All guys need a raid full stuff T10 25 hero for clean => a simple ICC 25nm with buff 30%.... the level of this server is so ****ing bad.
I cant even understand wtf you are saying. What does "PL by BUFF 30%" even mean?
Retail vanilla is going to be like warmane funservers.
There's gonna to be donations on retail vanilla as well.(not for everyone)
Famous streamers are going to have their personal human-bots who's sole goal in game is going to be to farm gold to give it away to their idol,just to get shout out on twitch.
Famous streamers are going to have best progress and they are going to be invited to best premades and pvp guilds,just for sake of guild promotions.
Its already well known who's gonna have scarab lords,most gold and best items in game gold can buy.
They can make group on demand,available 24/7,their sad faces because they can't afford items is going to make people even more to give them gold and help them ingame.
Good luck competing with all that.
Recently every streamer on twitch and youtube,and their grannies started making vanilla videos,guides and whatnots,their community is as big to fill 3 servers with 5 k pop max per server.Which means they are going to be spread out over 5-10 different realms,and their fanbase only is going to make 50% server population.Soda alone has enough people to fill 3 servers,not everyone is going to play,but majority will,because majority of them plays wow.Where are other 50 streamers with famous names,and 2k+ people who follow them.
You solid geared with all enchants,flasks and potions,spamming for hours in order to find proper group for 5 man dungs.
Streamers with green items,without enchants : ok guys,lets make a group - gets 500 whisps at once,even tho he won't do any dps,at least carriers are going to be live on twitch,proud and flexing.
This is how Athene got gladiator back in TBC,carried by skilled people,how Athene made progress during D3 early days (and took credit for it,even tho he had millions /traded to him,and bought all best items possible)
This is how famous players getting thousands of gold on /trade during waiting time in between arenas,this is how famous players getting all mounts and rare pets one can buy (via trade)
Difference is,this is going to be much much worse,because game is going to be brand new,over populated zones filled with mindless little personal human bots running around and preventing you from completing quests,farming anything and every other thing u can think off,and worst part is,its going to last as long as streamers play,which is going to be a long long long long time.
You with 20 hours played a day,will NEVER achieve things,someone who's gonna play 2 hours a day is going to.
My friend your focusing on the wrong stuff.
I don't think it is a waste of money if I enjoy the game, even tho I can't play as much as I used to. But thats different from people. But I think it is very wrong to say that most people won't be able to pay to play retail wow. But some/a lot won't be able.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
Also you are saying it was "boring and painful". That is your opinion. But thats because you did not enjoy the journy. Classic wow is about the journy to level 60, not just level 60. It is a lot of world pvp, and a lot about playing together with friends and people you meet. Why is suddenly not being able to farm perviouse expansions a negative? It is just as much a positive.
And in the end, just because you can't handle rouges, does it not mean that others can't.
I love how you are telling that people just "think they want to play vanilla".Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
Some people don't want RDF. Some people enjoy the journy of working towards gold at potions.
Heirlooms are in my opinion and a lot of others (not all), not good. I never liked heirlooms personally.
There is no friendship my ***! Classic wow was all about friendsship, finding people you enjoy playing with. You have to have friends and group up with other people to complete quests and dungeons/raids. What kind of argument is this? I have to laugh at that comment.
10 hours a day to have enough gold to repair? Where the **** do you gets your facts from? Have you even played vanilla?
You are too focused on the need of tryharding. No, you don't have to tryhard to play vanilla. I have never tryharded in any game I have played, and I been fully able to enjoy vanilla. It have never created problems for my work, school, family or friends. The time spending you are talking about is completly insane. And is just correct if you actually are tryharding, but that not involve everyone.
In the end, I don't think it will affect warmane too much. Warmane is focused on other expansions. But a lot of the posts sounds like it is made of people who have never played vanilla. Just made me a bit angry on people who try put opinions into other peoples head, and telling false facts.
Leveling in vanilla,especially with the re-release ,with hundreds of people doing same thing you do,is going to be tryhard alone.
People quiting on PTR before 30 already...
There are quests for which you have to fight trough opposite faction,mobs and to make it even worse - your own faction.Sure,its going to be fun to die 20-30 times by the time u reach quest from SW to Kalimdor/Fellwod (example) that alone right there is at least one hour just walking to your corpse,and if you are telling me that's fun,then i am sorry because what is fun to you,and what is actually fun is heaven and hell difference.
I think people forgot that whole SM GY at level 30,gives not even 3 bars of xp,and that's only one example.It takes you 15-20 minutes if not even more to do one full GY run.That's 20 minutes per 3 or less xp bars.
People think if we did it on private servers we will do it on retail.Yes sure...no gold boting and gold buying on retail vanilla,at least not for the first few months.
Only real fun who's gonna have in game is streamers with followers and FEW other common players.
Streamers because they know they won't ever farm single gold,and they will have LFM on demand.
Few other people for sole reason of being blizzard fanboy.
If you as casual think you will have fun,then i am happy for you.
There's reason why everyone remembers vanilla leveling,gearing and pvp experience as literal HELL,and back then,you had literally 32 players on some servers at certain hour,which means population wasnt that great to begin with,imagine 5-10 servers,filled with people in every single zone there is.Ganking,stealing mobs for quests,loot-able objects etc...
My point,every single of new released servers are going to be capped.
You want to relax at level 20 and do some questing at Lakeshire,you go there,and you see 40 man horde premade...you either wait for hours or go to another zone,just to get ganked by raid of rogues.
This all happened once,and it will happen again especially with all 'toxicity and seriousness game turned into in past 15 years.
Well, SM GY isn't full with elite mobs. Nor is it big, it's small. Sad instance exp wise in general. A lot of the mobs are optional and skipped, as they are not on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Scar...ery_(original)Quote:
The Graveyard is intended for players between level 26 and 36
GY's only good until 29, then you can move on to library.
Vanilla takes time,which some of the returning players don't have between family, work, and responsibilities. They'll quickly notice how little they progress with the limited time they get to play. It's going to be a long road.
Yeah, of course it will be more difficult at the start, because it is all re-released. But that is the same on private servers too. But a release creates a different experience. It is both anoying ofcourse, but it is also something different to enjoy. But that is the same when a private server releases a new realm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
And there is quests for which people will have to fight trough oppsosite and same faction. Yeah, that is just the same as a private server? Haha, that is called "pvp (world pvp)". And is a huge part of world of warcraft, both if you play private server or classic. You may be camped, die a million time on a private server too. Yeah, it will most likely be some extra deaths on release, but it will also be a lot more fun in world pvp, when there are huge groups of people of opposite faction fighting together! NOTE THE WORD: TOGETHER, a bigger group, there is a real battle between the factions, and the most of important of all, you don't play alone, but you actually need to help others and get help from others.
But as time pass, it will get back to normal. And we should not focus on the "un-normal" experience, when we talk about how Classic wow will be. The release is not what defines how good Classic will be. What will define how good classic will be, is when it comes to a normal state.
Gold botting and gold buying, are in my opinion just stupid. That destroys the actuall experience. But yeah, it will most likely be goldsellers on the server as time pass. But that is a part of the Vanilla experience, you can't buy what ever you want. You have to know what you need the most, but in the end you will get enough gold for skill and mount etc. But you will actuall have to work for it, instead of getting everything for "free", as we do on many private servers. For me personally, getting easy gear like epics, destroys a bit of the experience. There is nothing special about having a full epic geared character anymore, it is too easy.
Yeah, streamers will get huge benefits most likely. But how many streamers will actually get big benefits? And remember there is a split between EU/NA servers, and the streamers are on different realms. And how many streamers are there really, that get huge benefits? That won't be many, because there is not that many streamers that are really that huge. So there is very easy to dodge the streamers by playing on an other realm. And I am pretty sure what you are watching on stream today, won't be the same as the release. On release people are working for their character in the long run, not for just a short beta. They will need a lot more themself, and can't give everything away like they do now.
Why do you keep saying the word "everyone"? No, not "everyone" thougth that leveling, gearing and pvp was HELL. Leveling is a great experience, if you are not too focused on reaching max level. Yeah, there is a lot to see when you hit 60, but leveling is a lot bigger part of the experience then it is today. Leveling may be "work" every now and then, but you have actually to complete the dungeons, work together, help eachother, world pvp. Instead of just playing solo, skipping every dungon etc. Of cours, Classic is not for everyone, but it is for some people. So please stop saying "Everyone thougth it was HELL" to do X.
And again, you get too focused on the experience during the release, and not the experience people will have during the normal state. Mob tagging, ganking, etc. is a part of the game. If you don't like it, play pve. World pvp should be fun, but you are too focused on every time you have lost in a wpvp duel. But try focus on the fun of it. Just think about every forum posts there have been here alone, about ganking etc?
And ganked "by a raid of rouges". Yeah rouge is a popular class, but really a "raid of rouges", how often is that? Maybe you will meet a group of rouges and different classes. But you can also group up with others. Sounds like this may be(?) you problem. You play too much alone, but in Classic you have to play together, to level, to gear up, to gank/not get ganked, to farm, etc. It is social.
What I am trying to tell you in the end, trough a very long block of text. Please stop saying "everyone". If you personally don't like Classic, thats okey. If others don't like Classic thats okey. If people want to keep playing other expansions, thats okey. But stop saying "everyone".
The majority of your argument is a fresh server thing, expansion is irrelevant, you can say the same about a new expansion release or a fresh pserver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
people playing during WoD launch were tryhards? i doubt.
You can't argue about fun, is pretty subjetive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
For example, one of the few things i found funny in vanilla pserver was the leveling thing, because it made me think how gonna pull, where i gonna fight the mob, what consumable should i use etc, elite quest were a interesting way of forcing maximum usage of mechanics, if it was impossible I could try later making meaniful the "power up" in your toon. Classes are pretty simple, so you work around mechanics and no about performance which is curious but enjoyable in ti's own way.
But here are people talking about leveling in group outside dungeons and that make zero sense for me, because the challenge is just gone, the careful pull or the clever positioning is lost almost for complete.
So for some people is fun facerol vanilla wordl content with grouping and for others is solo the max possible. Some people enjoy finding ways of max/min their class for beat other class, others enjoy grouping and just kill and be killed in zergfest, you can opine which is funnier but that doesn't change the liking for the players.
i don't like so much vanilla neither, but it looks to me that you dislike classic popularity and not vanilla by itself.
There are pve servers and/or low pop servers, so the majority of the drama could be avoided, which probably i will do if i ever play in blizzard servers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsypersakura
This is from original Blizz forums post
I'm tired of all these vanilla was awesome thread, it was a solid game that has been blown out of the water with all of the advancements that have been made since. So here's a short list of the things that sucked back then:
40 players 2 pieces of loot, and no free point system epics
spending at least a half hour getting everyone together before raids expecially if you played horde on an alliance controlled server and had to carpool together into blackrock mountain to avoid pvp
it sucked farming gold, so much so that it was pretty usual to see 60's without epic riding for long periods of time.
Class imbalance today is nothing compared to back then. WoW was designed purposefully be a rock paper scissors match in which some classes had no chance against others while some were uncounterable (rogues)
Running a dungeon while leveling was the most inefficient thing you could ever do, it would take hours some times to put together a group and then just as long to summon everyone there and complete it just so you could get a couple bars of xp tops.
UBRS taking 15 people and still being considered really hard and even impossible without a goo hunter who could kite
I would be willing to bet that any player who started raiding with mc and stuck through it throughout all of vanilla (possibly going for tfurry or helping guild) has spent more time in that one raid than they have in every other one since then. They called it molten bore for a reason.
AQ releases and it takes a month at minimum before anyone can set foot inside of it, prior to that the entire server is forced to grind in order to open the gates. God forbid you were on a lower pop server
Naxx is touted as the end all be all to raids and it gets released months before TBC and is hard as balls. The best guilds on servers were proud to say screw it at 6/14.
First there was no organized pvp, then there was wsg and oldschool av which you could only play against people on your own server which required your server to be somewhat balanced or else you spend days in queue. And on top of that you have to be at the portal to queue so if you wanted to pvp you pretty much just spent all day hanging in north barens/ashenvale and occasianlly alterec.
Furthermore the pvp system was beyond broken, you could farm for months on end spending hours every day pvping just so you could become hwl and win gear that gets replaced in bwl(the second raid). By the time you hit aq or nax you started to question why you wasted all that time on useless gear.
Lastly about the old pvp system is it didn't take long for people to grow a brain and start forming hwl and grand marshal groups. The way it worked is you had to get invited to play with them on your server and then you were forced to attain a certain level of honor each week, any less and you would fall behind and never rank up and too much and you would get kicked out of the group and blackballed which basically made it impossible to ever get max rank. Then after months of rigging the honor system on your server you could finally get your crap gear.
Oh and one more thing, the best gear for pvp was the best gear for raids so if you liked to pvp you had to raid, and if you didn't you could still go in and roll face if you were geared enough.
There was little to no variety in mounts, everyone pretty much had their racial mount and that was it, and even if you got more than that each mount took up bag space so collecting was pretty much unheard of, same thing with pets.
ZHC+TOEP nerf set the standard for all future trinkets
Addons were miles behind where they are today, it took a while for many of the addons we love today to even come out in their early forms/predeccesors (CTmods anyone)
Threat was broken, some classes cough cough warlock, had zero threat reduction and having 4-5 dps die on any given trash pull was common if they weren't paying attention. Waiting for 5 sunders was the most boring thing ever to do.
Furthermore the primary thing a tank was judged for was their ability to hold threat. The main reason thunderfurry was touted as the best tanking sword all the way to level 70 raids was the threat its proc created.
Class roles were mandatory, if you were a druid you healed, a shaman you healed, a priest you healed, a warrior you tanked.
Shamans sucked compared to paladins for pve and horde in general was at a disadvantage for having them.
Server transfers weren't created until the end of vanilla so because of the fact there was no x-realm stuff if you didn't like your server or you were blacklisted from multiple guilds you pretty much were forced to reroll, which took a lot longer to level.
Cookie cutter talent specs were far more restricting than now, each class had one exact spec they had to use for raiding for the most part. And because there were no dual talent specs and respeccing cost a fortune you were pretty much stuck with your cookie cutter spec.
Bots and exploiters were far more prevalent then they are today, there was a point at which you could actually dupe items and it wasn't uncommon to see a gagle of players jumping in and out of instances over and over.
Not all gear but a lot of offeset items were ugly as sin, look up gloves of hypnotic flame and vestments of the shifting sands and imagine being an undead warlock, it completely removes any badassnes of the character.
It wasn't uncommon to run full clears of every old tier of raiding including 20 mans even when your guild was starting nax due to how much harder it was to gear players back then.
I remember some pretty epic forum threads about the most rediculous excuses players would use to ninja log to get out of raiding the rest of the night. Any raid content past the twin emps was brutal and as cool as hard content is when there is no difference between hard mode and normal and blizzard never nerfed anything back then it was difficult.
Barrens Chat
Having to use allakazham instead of wowhead
World pvp existed but 75% of it was ganking lowbies
Getting attuned or keyed for EVERYTHING. Still have terrible memories of doing onyxia quest chain. The worst part was even once you did it for yourself you still ended up getting conned into helping everyone else do it in your guild 10 more times. Felt like you had to run an mc attune every time you ran it. And naxx attuning etiher cost you a fortune or forced you to grind a rep that took a lot longer back then.
Making the rookie mistake of rolling on a west coast server and not realizing it until you start raiding and due to no server transfers your forced to stay up forever.
No pacific or latin american servers so groups of these people would congregate on select servers that weren't in their region.
Forcing guild members to take rotations tracking world bosses so that your guild could kill em. Then having to split your 40 man raid in two groups of 20, one group to fight the boss and the other to pvp to keep the other faction off of you.
Totally imbalanced racials as well as imbalanced pvp trinkets.
engineering lol
There were not enough quests at certain levels to keep leveling so you were literally forced grind mobs or run dungeons (mid-late 40's as horde)
Oh remember when blizzard added a caster legendary in naxx that .00000000001% of people ever saw and then they took 5 years to release another caster legendary that dps could use.
Repair bills scaled insanely with gear. Most guilds had to farm as an entire guild just to cover their tanks repair bills alone.
This list isn't me bashing vanilla, I could just as easily make one with all of the great things that were accomplished in vanilla. I just want people to realize that back then there were just as many bad things as today and overall the game has always been improving since it was released with every content patch.
fortunatelyxDQuote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
not why vanilla was bad or not
why do you want that players admit that vanilla wasn't so great?
i mean i have similar perception of wotlk, but if i'm right or not doesn't change the fact that more people play wotlk than cata, because fun isn't about "right" things necessarily.
Maybe you are misunderstanding me, so i'm going to leave clear: when i tell a fact it doesn't implies i like that fact.
With that in mind, gonna give some examples:
People like that, blizzard allows to attack grey and green level players, pvp servers are pretty popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
While this can be a bad thing objectively, the public for this type of content is there, the overleveled player that join for killing lowbies and the lowbie that wanna play pvp in a enviroment for that usage.
Check out lord forum about cross realm, a lot of wow players give a crap about balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
Vanilla is the nice enviroment in that case, because classes are pretty simple and obtain gear is cumbersome.
Lately I saw a classic beta duel session, event or some crap not sure and basically a mage wins vs warlock because wotf, proving how ****ed is to play warlock in alliance.
Needless to say, people liked it and ignore that elephant in the room.
To end: A lot of your cons are about end game, but again if people get to that point they have already invested +-240 hours, if people enjoy that period of time the main goal of the videogame which is to get entertainment is fulfilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsypersakura
Like i said,this is copy-paste from Official forums.Not my post.
Too many wrong things for such a small content.
All of the above,every single thing its true.Its not like its made up.
People want official vanilla same reason they want BC,wotlk and cata.Because they can't have it.Once its been released,those who cried for it will realize their fantasies were mistake,because Classic is not private server.There's no donations,wpe-pros,multi hacks and whatnots.Sure there are some cheats,but not like on private servers.
Those who say they played vanilla 50% of them weren't even born yet,30% of them never played it.
Good luck farming gold just so u can pay repair for your tank.
Peace out.
I dunno man, looking at how the Classic Beta is going you might to be wrong. There is so many people who was saying the same thing as you, but now that they play beta they change their mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
You have to understand that a lot of the "problems" you are talking about are making people appreciate the game more, get invested and make your character have wight.
You sound like blizzard, "you think you do but you don't". Hope I don't cross any lines with Warmane's rules while saying this; But on the most popular Classic private servers there have been, there was never a possiblity to donate, etc. And the cheaters, why do we even care about them? If they are not going to play - thats just great, thats a win!Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdx
So when you are talking about all the private server people, that "think" they want Classic, you think they play on donation servers, you are totally wrong.