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Ppl who want to win prizes would choose the most efficient way inoder to get these prizes. The vast majority of the WoW playerbase always behaves like this. The fastest way to gain honor is to make run 5 man premades and queue for random BGs. Doing large scale premades with specific BG queue is very inefficient way to gain honor. Large scale premades would probably still happen but they wouldn't be as common as now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
I think that's a realistic estimation.
What I wonder is what the staff thinks of the situation, because there probably have been internal discussions about this...
They probably look at the whole server health and take most of the complaints with a grain of salt because they're extremely biased. I play on Classic, Onyxia and Icecrown atm and I love playing in Icecrown battlegrounds because it's way more competitive and it's more an all out war for dominance rather than just rushing objectives and ignoring everything else. I think the majority of players enjoy it here, but I do understand it can be rough for less experienced players and those wanting to farm gear. There's a high skill expectation on the server. Same in PvE players expect a lot and that can translate into some toxicity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shred
You can't seriously expect the inclusion of major custom rewards and rank systems, that even you don't believe would be a solution, just "estimated" to reduce the problem - and that under the assumption that you were somewhat correct. You're also somehow forgetting how petty many people can be when it comes to PvP. Remember that this problem is caused by players who have nothing to win by doing it, yet keep doing it anyway, and instead of it being just a boring and monotonous flavor of the month that they got sick of doing after a while, it kept happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutone
Yes, I also like this "meta" more than the "normal" one. I explained more here https://forum.warmane.com/showthread...=1#post3211130Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsvanbuskirk
Have you thought that maybe they are not thinking about it at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shred
You say that there were probably internal discussions between them............You said it right, probably and that means they might not even have discussed it for various reasons.
Until there is an announcement from them, it must therefore be assumed that they are not doing anything.
When implementing smth new, you can never be 100% sure how the playerbase will behave and adapt. You can only estimate what effect the changes will most likely have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxious
In case of my suggested ranked system, it wouldn't be smth completly new since it's a system that blizzard themself implemented during original Vanilla. The only difference would be that the rewards are vanity items instead of gear that makes you stronger. I played back in these days and I know that the ranked system was perfect to attract hardcore BG heroes and keep them busy. We have plenty of BG heroes on our aging Wotlk realms and I'm pretty certain that they would be all going for these custom titels and tmogs as prestige items. That would change their behavior from HK farming to playing BG objectives because they want these sweet rewards.
To be honest, I believe that my suggestion is more thought through than PvP changes that Warmane has implemented in the past.
I can't help but say that the decision to base PvP rewards on HKs during Onyxia Vanilla was just absurd. Ofc ppl queue only for AV and do a braindead HK grind when you implement smth like this. It was so predictable...
Same story with these Blackrock TBC quests. When you implement a weekly quest that requires you to cap a flag in eots or kill a certain amount of players in a BG isn't it obvious that ppl will ignore the BG objectives in order to complete these quests?
In the future you should listen to suggestions and feedback from our community before you implement poorly thought out changes.
Thats my opinion.
Yes, of course, that's why I used the word "probably" and not "definitely".Quote:
Originally Posted by zorino
I said "internal discussions". A discussion doesn't necessarily end with an action, since doing nothing is also a choice that they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by zorino
Right, but I think it would be very appreciated by players if the developers published an announcement in the forum explaining the reasons why a choice was made or not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shred
Certainly acting in this way is to their advantage and therefore also to the server.
"Back in the day" World of Warcraft was a whole different game with players that had a whole different mentality. Whatever happened two decades ago is irrelevant to today's reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutone
It's quite funny and telling how past arguments get forgotten when it's convenient. It hasn't even been 24 hours since you said fully geared characters have no reason to care about objectives, so they go for farming HKs to "have PvP." I can't help but say the hypocrisy in trying to blame a behavior you yourself say would happen anyway, on a decision that in no way encourages farming beyond a certain amount, is just absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutone
And how exactly does that create this "meta" of graveyard farming? Some people ignoring objectives to complete quests is in no way what causes any of it - people weren't completing objectives much longer than that was ever brought up. If anything, in a healthy environment, people wanting to complete objectives and Blackrock quests would help each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutone
I'm quite sure you do. I'm also vehemently positive you believe just the same that it doesn't come out as blatantly self-serving, with making things better for the randoms as just an afterthought "maybe it happens" side-effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutone
There is nothing to argue about here.
First of all, there is huge disbalance between horde and alliance PVP. Alliance naturally has a lot more PVP players and is camping horde graveyard in every WG. Alliance premade gets que over regular people by abusing /click StaticPopup1Button1 macro which regular people don't even know about.
Second, HKS farmers don't belong to any faction. They are lured to any faction that will enable them to farm more HKS since that is their incentive to play the game. It is role playing game so naturally some people chose to be HKS farmers, the same way as 80 men alliance premade choses to spend hour during the day camping Gurubashi chest in STV.
Third, only one person on horde is making premades and they have nothing to do with HKS farmers. Those premades made horde alive again and finally horde is winning WGs again in prime server hour, which didn't happen for years before. Does it have a consequence on regular people who play vs that premade in AV/ISLE? Sure it does, but there is a question why main alliance guild don't form a premade to face it, since t hey are already online, camping WG or STV? The reason is simple, they are used to advantage of having more numbers and winning with ease and they don't wanna tryhard to win vs 40 men premade.
Final point is that horde winning those AV/ISLE brought many alliance HKS farmers to horde, and some of them now join WG/WPVP making pvp screne alive again. I don't think its fun for anyone to see 150 BIS alliance players ganking 30 low level horde in WG and AV/ISLE, which as I said happened for YEARS before and people were complaining, but not this much.
IF you wanna do something about it, maybe you shouldn't cry to administrators to do something about it, and do what Oneohtrix did - spam global chat for people that wanna play together with you in a premade so you can win once again. Ofcourse, gathering 40 people is not easy and since so many alliance players are already busy farming WG / WPVP / Gurubashi it will take some effort, at least it will take more effort then writing forum post.
Yikes man. You didn't think this through at all. All these vanity items and prizes have been available in the game since forever. You're talking about a player base riding around in already full transmog gear on a ghost tiger mount with "Gladiator" and "of the Horde/Alliance" titles. Was your idea for a player to get to rank 9 and win a toy dragon or something? Rank 10 you get a title with less prestige than what they have or is available?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutone
Let's say they actually did care and you actually somehow had rewards that people even remotely cared about to farm. Rank 14 in one month gg. Now what? Rank 14 gives scarab lord title/mount and whole server is a scarab lord and it's world of bugcraft. I can't see a way for it to work like you think it would.
In case you didn't know the original Vanilla PvP ranking system was a complex algorithm and a design that was very complicated. So not only something incredibly difficult to develop, but also one that wouldn't have functioned on Onyxia because of the lack of PvP players. The honor/mark system was also too limited to replicate the effort necessary for R14. Hence the solution we had for Onyxia Vanilla PvP. The HK grind did replicate the effort and it also replicated the braindead time sink of original R14. That old Vanilla system was replaced actually because it was based on time spent and not actual skill like the current system. The original system was also very heavily exploited. So it wasn't as absurd a solution as you might think.
I think the problem isn't necessarily BG premades per se, it's how unbalanced opposing groups' gear is. Sure, it's frustrating when a premade has 3-4 healers and the regular group has 0. But what sets up premades for hk farming is how untouchable they are due to gear imbalances. Once you move out of the 3-4k gs bracket, you're almost immediately up against 6k+ groups (premade or not). There is no gradual transition from low 5k to mid 6k. You hit around 5.2k and boom, everyone in the opposing team is 6k+ full BIS with SM. You can't convince me that that is normal. Those who are there to grind and get their gear have no chance against full BIS veterans. (Same with 2v2 arena tbh, you make a fresh team around 5k and you go up against 1500 team rating full BIS SM dudes, but that's a topic for another day.) And then yes, if they are premade on top of that, you are just gonna get farmed endlessly. What I don't understand is why is it that from 5k to 6k BGs are NOT matched based on item level and therefore so unplayable the majority of time? That low 3-4k gs bracket is the sweet spot where PvP is FUN because everyone is at the same level in gear. I would LOVE to have the option to put on a lower gear to join that bracket (while being unable to change your gear once you're in the BG to prevent abusing the system by changing to high gear and bullying the lowbies) just to keep playing at a level where skill matters because you're equals.
I think that for Lordaeron players the only possible solution to have any chance of winning is to join bg only if you have a pvp or pvp and pve mixed gear with a gearscore of 6k, or at least 5.5k.
But when it happens that the team is made up of players who already have equipment like this and lose anyway, then I don't know what else can depend on.
So like in any other realm?Quote:
Originally Posted by zorino