Why RDF Being Disabled on Lordaeron is a GOOD Thing

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December 28, 2015
Skoobydoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

On the old lordaeron realm i leveled 5 palys as a multiboxer. From level 15-80 I did only rdf dungeons and not a single quest in the open world.
All my chars had complete heirloom gear, each of them had crusader enchant on his weapon and i cleared all dungeons with 1 prot and 4 ret paly.
No random grp can clean dungeons faster than 4 complete heirloom geared ret palys and a tank and still, it took me quite long to level my team up. Previously I leveled a single mage on the old lordaeron realm and it was significant faster to hit 80 by doing quests with this single char.

first of all i will like to see some screen with played.and even if thats true and you still level with quests faster then RDF in 3.3 that still have nothing to do with what we talk about.you said they did it to balance questing and dungeons farming,but i say the reason is to please casual players.thats opinions not facts since as far as a know there is no blizzard stuff member who said " the reason we did RDF is ...."
also the fact you say you leveled slower with RDF but still you didnt do single quest but keep queue for it just show us the core problem with RDF system.
btw you said on retail players level way faster with quests....well i leveled on retail not "old lorderon" on 3.0 when there was no RDF but LFG tool and most retail players didnt level at 3.3 they already had max level.
December 28, 2015
Jakkre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

first of all i will like to see some screen

I looked but couldnt find a screenshot of the playtime. It was a long time ago somewhere in 2011.
This was my multibox team (replaced the prot pala with a DK at level 60). The chars are already lvl 80 on this pic but u can still see the heirloom shoulders.
http://imgur.com/HVqZzf9

This was the mage i leveled previously on Lordaeron:
http://imgur.com/gW3fFLO

Its not really a proof but I also dont have to provide u any. I just shared the experience that i made with questing vs doing only rdf until level 80. I dont really give a f*** if u believe me or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

also the fact you say you leveled slower with RDF but still you didnt do single quest but keep queue for it just show us the core problem with RDF system.

I havent done a single quest because i was multiboxing. As multiboxer every collection quests takes 5 times longer so it wasnt worth it.

Also, right now on Lordaeron its also possible to sit the whole day in the capital city and scan the global chat for dungeon grps. When u get invited just let the grp summon u to the dungeon and when ur are done use ur HS to get back to the capital city. U dont need necessarily RDF to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

btw you said on retail players level way faster with quests....well i leveled on retail not "old lorderon" on 3.0 when there was no RDF but LFG tool and most retail players didnt level at 3.3 they already had max level.

Not as if it does matter but I also leveled during Wotlk on retail. Played on retail from vanilla until wotlk.
December 28, 2015
TriNitY706

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

"Most" doesnt mean 100%.
There is a reason why I said that "most" rdf problems are related to bugs and not "all" problems.
U cant deny that the amount of grps that disband, when its impossible to avoid the deserter, would be significant lower.

And the current dungeon system prevents ninja looting?
U can even set the loot to free for all in the current dungeon grps.
RDF would make it at least impossible to change the loot system.

The "100%" part was in reference to the deserter debuff working but still not preventing players from leaving RDF groups, not to RDF "problems" being related to bugs.

Your arguments are circular. Fixing RDF won't make it viable on Lordaeron, the fixed loot system doesn't prevent ninja looting and whether leveling through quests or RDF is faster is irrelevant due to Lordaeron being a hardcore realm and at least part of the reason RDF is disabled is because it circumvents in-game effort and doesn't promote communication amongst players.

--+-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+--

If players keep looking for random groups of course it will take time, break the mold, branch off and keep the same group and quest together, but no, it still seems like players have that selfish mentality. Personally I would much rather progress with the same people than continually spending time looking for groups for dungeons and then going back to questing alone.
December 28, 2015
Jakkre

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriNitY706

Fixing RDF won't make it viable on Lordaeron,

RDF would even be viable on Lordaeron if it was as buggy as on the other realms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriNitY706

the fixed loot system doesn't prevent ninja looting

The RDF loot system was never bugged on Warmane if thats what u mean. The loot is always set to grp loot and cant be changed, exactly how its supposed to work.

Ur whole ninja loot argument doesnt make any sense. Implementing RDF would change absolute nothing when it comes to nina looting.
The only form of ninja looting that exist with RDF is rolling need on every single item even when the char doesnt need the item.
Currently such a ninja get kicked by the dungeon leader. In case of RDF such a ninja get kicked when the grp votes for it.
The result is the same. Ninjas can be kicked out of the dungeon and replaced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriNitY706

and whether leveling through quests or RDF is faster is irrelevant due to Lordaeron being a hardcore realm

Its not irrelevant. If leveling with rdf would be significant faster then everybody would sit in the capital citys and just spam rdf all day long. Some ppl here make it look as if this would be the case when rdf gets enabled.
I say it wouldnt be the case because questing would still grant more xp than rdf so ppl would still move out of their castle to do quests in the open world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriNitY706

RDF is disabled is because it circumvents in-game effort and doesn't promote communication amongst players.

Feralbeard said it very well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feralbeard

I can not understand why staff thinks that grouping up manually is more social, more communicative. As a lot of people before already mentioned, the real communication looks like this: /global LFM <insert role> <insert dungeon> <insert gear / level requirements> and answer you got is <invite, role/level>. If staff thinks this kind of communication is smth awesome, idk what to think about you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriNitY706

Personally I would much rather progress with the same people than continually spending time looking for groups for dungeons and then going back to questing alone.

Nothing would stop u from joining RDF together with ur friends. U know, u can also queue RDF as party. ;)
December 28, 2015
Dekhatress

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

No, you don't. You have been given reasons, points of view and even a bare "because we want to." But you don't want to understand them, nor are you able to accept them, because you want reasons that would make you disable RDF on your private server, if you had one like Warmane. The main point you're missing is that the Administration doesn't has to convince you about their decision, nor needs you to agree or "understand" it in terms of it being something you would do yourself.

yes he wants, but like many other ppl he wants the "real" reason why it's still disabled, they came with a "because we want to" because they dont have any decent argument to support the decision, i mean who the hell still thinks no rdf improves community ? maybe someone who has never played on this realm*cough*

but now if we are to be realistic, they will never come out and say "hey we were wrong and u guys were right" will they ? ofc not, at this point just deny the problem and hopefully it disappears

this DS description just fits so well the experience of playing on this realm

It's like being married to a woman who is attractive and charming and funny and intelligent and you are soulmates and everything is perfect, right? She is the perfect woman. You could not ask for a more better woman in the world. You love her, and she loves you. Only, she has one flaw. Every 5 minutes, she punches you in the face... For no reason, she just punches you in the face every 5 minutes. Even at night, you wake up, she punches you in the face. You recover, get 3 minutes 38 seconds of sleep, then she punches you in the face again. And you love her.

if Warmane could just stop punching ppl in the face it would be purfect
December 28, 2015
Obnoxious

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekhatress

yes he wants, but like many other ppl he wants the "real" reason why it's still disabled, they came with a "because we want to" because they dont have any decent argument to support the decision, i mean who the hell still thinks no rdf improves community ? maybe someone who has never played on this realm*cough*

but now if we are to be realistic, they will never come out and say "hey we were wrong and u guys were right" will they ? ofc not, at this point just deny the problem and hopefully it disappears

this DS description just fits so well the experience of playing on this realm

It's like being married to a woman who is attractive and charming and funny and intelligent and you are soulmates and everything is perfect, right? She is the perfect woman. You could not ask for a more better woman in the world. You love her, and she loves you. Only, she has one flaw. Every 5 minutes, she punches you in the face... For no reason, she just punches you in the face every 5 minutes. Even at night, you wake up, she punches you in the face. You recover, get 3 minutes 38 seconds of sleep, then she punches you in the face again. And you love her.

if Warmane could just stop punching ppl in the face it would be purfect

And dealing with people like you is like letting someone hang around in your house for dinner, and when you serve your usual Monday dinner meal - which you informed the person what it was going to be before you even started cooking - they throw a fit and act like you should be having for dinner what they want, that what you told them you'd have for dinner and that they could share is "wrong," that they don't like it, that it should be their way.

If people like you could just have the dinner being served or have their meal elsewhere, then it would in fact be perfect.
December 28, 2015
Jakkre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

And dealing with people like you is like letting someone hang around in your house for dinner, and when you serve your usual Monday dinner meal - which you informed the person what it was going to be before you even started cooking

Maybe the dinner wasnt the usual one but some new experiment and it came out that it taste worse than expected.
In such a case it would make sense to change the recipe.

Lordaeron without rdf is like crunchy french fries without salt.
Taste good but could taste much better.
December 28, 2015
Obnoxious

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

Maybe the dinner wasnt the usual one but some new experiment and it came out that it taste worse than expected.
In such a case it would make sense to change the recipe.

Lordaeron without rdf is like crunchy french fries with out salt.
Taste good but could taste much better.

Except the taste didn't come out worse. 10.000 people plus queue aren't being forced to have it, yet they are. Even if a parcel of them are masochists, the majority likes the way it is or doesn't dislikes it enough to not have it. Let's also not forget we were fine with having Lordaeron populated with even less than 2000 players if it came to that. If you don't like the taste don't take the place of the hundreds of people who are in line to have their feast.
December 28, 2015
Spatter

Now I read the original post and not the whole wall of comments that followed that I am sure are intriguing. So here's my 5 cents:

I disagree with the decision of having to disable it in the first place. It was kind of cute before 80 but not it is scandalous of how much it needs to be in the game.
And here is the reason: At the moment there are no other means of getting into a group except for looking / spamming on Global. With the population capping off at 10k + 1k in queue, the amount of goddamn spam is palpable. Half the population wants to get into a group of some kind, the other half just found a level 9 green that just has to be sold for 50 silver immediately. Oh and of course, the endless questions on why the RDF is disabled. Now having said that, you might think: "wow, must be easy to get a group with 5k+ online". Wrong, half of us would not touch the global channel with a stick. Most disable it as there is no stopping to the endless crock of bull**** that flows out of there. For instance, I have been searching for a tank for a specific heroic for 2 hours, in two sessions, both at peak times. Also, while looking for a group on global you cannot do anything else, you just watch a wall of text that will give you vertigo after about 2 minutes.

So why does it need to be enabled, because of quality of life that is why. Press a button, and continue away with your stuff, for I am tired of staring at the flowing text of the global spam. And why are people talking about it even though the staff made a "decision" to disable it? Here's the inside scoop, people have used it before, and it was way better than it is now. Ever heard of that mammal behavior study? Goes a little like this: "Monkeys were given lettuce for their meals since birth. Then they switched lettuce to grapes, which are much more tasty. After a month, they switched them back to lettuce. Guess what happened? Monkeys went ****ing crazy..."

And stop making excuses for why it needs to be enabled / disabled. It is a feature of the game, and if you are a seasoned player you know that it has no impact on any of the things that you mentioned. But to be fair, this is a rant nonetheless. It's kind of hard to keep it grounded when something is marketed as blizzlike, while if you take a closer look, it is farm from it.
December 28, 2015
Jakkre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Except the taste didn't come out worse. 10.000 people plus queue aren't being forced to have it, yet they are. Even if a parcel of them are masochists, the majority likes the way it is or doesn't dislikes it enough to not have it. Let's also not forget we were fine with having Lordaeron populated with even less than 2000 players if it came to that. If you don't like the taste don't take the place of the hundreds of people who are in line to have their feast.

The taste of "disabled rdf" came out worse than expected. After all the dinner is still fine but it doesnt mean that the recipe cant be improved.
December 28, 2015
Obnoxious

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

The taste of "disabled rdf" came out worse than expected. After all the dinner is still fine but it doesnt mean that the recipe cant be improved.

Then, if you disliked the taste, make room for those who want it, as I said.

The only reason I've just let this thread be so far is because it was nothing more than a discussion about the merits or demerits of our choice. This is taking the same path as others before, which were locked or deleted, where it becomes just players trying to "convince" us or demand "reasons" to try to debunk. If it stays this way, it will have the same fate.
December 28, 2015
Fated

Disabling RDF is not blizzlike and its stupid as hell.
/thread
December 28, 2015
Kempachu

Why cant you just open an RDF in eastern kingdom,kalimdor and outland, leaving northrend "hardcore" ? Now barely noone is looking for dungs as it used to be before bc and northrend realse..
December 29, 2015
Skoobydoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kempachu

Why cant you just open an RDF in eastern kingdom,kalimdor and outland, leaving northrend "hardcore" ? Now barely noone is looking for dungs as it used to be before bc and northrend realse..

why do you want so desperately to press button enter do the dungeons for 10 mins and then log off? why so desperately want to do dungeons at first place?i can tell you why because people are TOO LAZY to fly to dungeons or to go quest.and this is the kind of people that warmane dont want on lorderon.there is 2 other realms with working RDF system there no reason at all for you do be here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fated

Disabling RDF is not blizzlike and its stupid as hell.
/thread

if you still cant understand that at current content we have on Lordeon ,blizzard DIDNT HAD RDF EXISTING you are braindead.i will understand if you complain about it when ICC come out because you are missing EOF,but QQ-ing about it now make no sense at all.following your logic we can complain because we dont have ICC RS POS HOR Wrathfull season and so on...."its 3.3 they had it on retail so if you dont its not blizzlike" .what we have not its literally the most blizzlike feeling that can possible get on WOTLK release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

The taste of "disabled rdf" came out worse than expected. After all the dinner is still fine but it doesnt mean that the recipe cant be improved.

other then 10 max 20 people ( yes its same people at every thread about RDF) no1 else care so.... how exactly " the taste was worst then expected? ".and the fact lorderon have more population on his current state that any other WOW realm on private server EVER just show us how much people love it in his current state.
December 29, 2015
TriNitY706

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

RDF would even be viable on Lordaeron if it was as buggy as on the other realms.

Spoiler: Show

The RDF loot system was never bugged on Warmane if thats what u mean. The loot is always set to grp loot and cant be changed, exactly how its supposed to work.

Ur whole ninja loot argument doesnt make any sense. Implementing RDF would change absolute nothing when it comes to nina looting.
The only form of ninja looting that exist with RDF is rolling need on every single item even when the char doesnt need the item.
Currently such a ninja get kicked by the dungeon leader. In case of RDF such a ninja get kicked when the grp votes for it.
The result is the same. Ninjas can be kicked out of the dungeon and replaced.

RDF is NOT viable on Lordaeron because it takes away from it's "hardcore" nature.

As previously mentioned RDF is disabled because a number of things, one pretty much being it takes the effort out of the gaming experience so no matter what it can or cannot do it is at least in part disabled because of that. It's like a particular cleaning product that is known to cause health problems being taken off the shelves at a store you like to shop at and you are trying to argue that it be put back on the shelves because of how well it cleans, it can be the absolute best cleaner in the world but it harms people therefore a decision was made to remove it. What you are doing is ignoring the overall problems RDF presents to players as a whole on a "hardcore" realm and or trying to make them seem less significant. Staff members have posted here (Mercy, Obnoxious) with logical, rational reasoning about the topic. RDF is seen to hurt the game as whole so it is disabled on Lordaeron and as mentioned by myself as well as others 10k population (with queues) goes to show it must not be such an issue.

The RDF loot system pretty much has nothing to do with anything, static or not. You mentioned that the RDF loot system can't be changed as if the one RDF uses completely prevents ninja-looting which it doesn't. ANY form of ninja-looting is still ninja-looting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

Nothing would stop u from joining RDF together with ur friends. U know, u can also queue RDF as party. ;)

In RDF groups players have to be voted to be kicked (3 out of 5 I believe). If a ninja-looter has a buddy in the group with him it decreases the chances of a successful vote, if the NL has 2 buddies it's more than likely NOT going to pass so the other 2 group members at inconvenienced. This can and does happen in part due to RDF enabled partial groups to queue as you mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

The ninja looting thing is nonsense. In rdf grps the loot is always set to group loot and it cant be changed.
Infact ninja looting is easier with a non rdf party because the loot method can be changed during the dungeon.

Ull meet the same amount of noobs and group wipers when u use the global chat to recruit ppl.

With RDF being disabled if people come across players that ninja-loot or party leaders that change the loot system during the dungeon for malicious reasons screenshots can be made and other players warned about them. With RDF even though the loot system is static it can still be abused and players can't really police who is in the group until AFTER it is made, even then a vote has to pass which they don't always do, unless they queue with a full party (which is something else).

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