Yea the itemisation is perfect now.
Thanks for this thingy. :D
Will do some in game testing and raiding i guess to see if this works same or better as my old itemisation and edit the frost DK section again if needed...
Best of luck. Thanks again...
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Yea the itemisation is perfect now.
Thanks for this thingy. :D
Will do some in game testing and raiding i guess to see if this works same or better as my old itemisation and edit the frost DK section again if needed...
Best of luck. Thanks again...
You're welcome, do know that the simulations are ran for hundreds of hours on a 3 minute fight. Replicating this in a raid scenario reliably... would be rather diffucult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnimo
The sims arent even calibrated to warmanes formula, how are they even close to accurate.
Running 2 pieces+ agility offsets and hitting 20k average obliterates or 26k+ obliterates is bull****.
Am i missing something, pls enlighten me.
The only two things that differ from sims to warmane scripts are:Quote:
Originally Posted by verminslayer2
1. Frost strike damage being slightly lower here (reported on bugtracker). And this doesn't favor strength users.
2. Expertise soft cap being higher which doesn't favor either playstyle.
I don't know what your other point was. Would you mind clarifying?
I've seen this guy before, he is active in every topic regarding DK itemization and he is bashing everyone who thinks having some agility off-pieces is BiS and claims STR > ARP as FDK doing it in a very uncivilized manner and without proof, because he is very uninformed or misinformed, if you are open minded and want to listen then fine, if not please crawl back into your world and let these guys handle the real facts here because they are using their precious time to get things straight for others who are new to this class or others who simply want to improve their DK to fullest possible accordingly to his specific needs, so if you don't have any constructive feedback regarding this matter or wish to join this theorycrafting talk here, I'd suggest to abstain yourself from additional useless comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminslayer2
Now to the topic at hand:
ArP build does more DPS in single target situatiations almost 100% of the time while STR brings more versatility to the table to AoE cleave fights that's the beauty of this Frost spec but keep in mind that at some point simulations show ( I've done this 3453453 times with Khaorie's, checked it, double checked it, Rifokelt here can do it again and prove it to you, I'm not at home right now being aboard in holiday don't have the means to do it) 70% of FDK's attacks are physical so therefore with a passive 72%+ ArP (as some simulations show again checked and double checked and etc) strength's value decreases exponentially.
As for the agility we take it because every FDK's damaging ability is dependant on AP and you can find it in pure or raw state or whatever you wanna call it on agility off-pieces,STR still helds the highest value but once you are 72% + passive ArP it becomes weaker as state above hence the STR conversion is meh.. and lastly due to the high amount of ArP on them required for cap, so if you are running with ArP build some agility off-pieces are BiS hands down.
Didnt say anything about going full gemming strength you brain dead monkey, everybody knows 100% arp > gemming straight strength.
What i am saying is there is no way ur obliterates will hit harder than going full str + 100% arp.
As for crit, it is all rng, getting 5% more crit will barely make a difference in how many times ur obliterates crit.
I've tested with 2+ pieces of agility and each time my dps is slightly lower and the obliterates hit less hard(even in average damage) and the amount of times it crit is unnoticeable compared to strength.
you can have your obliterates crit 65% of the time with agi gear and have ur str crit 70% of the time, there is no definitive advantage going agility offpieces on dk, it comes down to rng. but 1 thing i can assure you of is that your obliterates will hit less hard than someone who has gone full str.
also cashroll i need to ask you a question you **** stain, do you even have a bis dk to begin with? if not ur opinion doesn't mean **** im afraid.
@riko
I clicked on one the last sheets where you calculated dps and it said 14.9k damage or what ever it was. how did u get that number? what buffs? icc? dummy? outside of icc?
But this is not how statistics work. Over the course of n raids, you will have 5% more crits with agility off-parts if they grant you 5% more crit compared to your str setup. That's a simple fact you can't deny.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminslayer
@ vermin Judging by your response you must be at least 16-17 years old, and suffering from Asperger's or something like that, you created your own paradox which only you can comprehend, your behavior reflects ignorance, arrogance and lack of maturity not to mention the way you insult me shows the level of your intelligence and how uneducated you are in the face of truth, what you only do is to deny yourself and the world you live in and others demonstrating how mentally disturbed you must be and how startled you are on forcing your opinion on others even if it's truly wrong, you continue to suffocate yourself with false facts showing even more how a spoiled brat you are when someone breaks it for you, you must be used to getting your boot licked... but hey, not everyone will put up with your childish manifestation, and putting that aside you didn't even read what I just said, or pretend to be stupid or really being stupid indeed, therefore you just demonstrated you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what implies to play a DK properly not to mention even theorycraft about it, because the logic you use, only applies in your own reality, that being said on the topic at hand, even more persons come up with facts and evidence like this guy above me, and you still choose to ignore it, I suggest crawl back into your corner of the world and leave us to it while you educate yourself more and take care of those issues, because it's clearly you have some behavior problems.
And to truly answer your question, I play this game, since release back in the '04, hence this class back in '08, while your were playing with your small **** in the sand, and I have like 4 DKs with different BiS setups including gems/professions/food/gear/pots/etc all scattered around some private servers, and the 5th one here on Icecrown, which I won't mention the servers because I don't want to advertise, and how I came to these conclussions?
First of all download Kahorie's DK Simulator https://code.google.com/archive/p/dksimulator/downloads
https://mega.nz/#!OclkkBIS!DhI8Ez-VV...IboeG8ce_yOlSo Latency Test to determine the Expertise
Finally, if you simulate every possible composition of items/gems/pots/food/gear/professions you will find yourself a BiS for your FDK, which is what I did, before stating these facts. Do it yourself, and after that come and share us your results, and will be exactly as I said, Rifokelt is getting close to my results, he needs to simulate even deeper and further and he will come up with exactly the same results as I did, maybe even better, I will ask my brother which is currently at home to send me a picture of the gear I'm currently running with and works best for me after countless sims, well with minor tweaks, here and there depending of each's latency test, the higher the latency the higher the expertise gains in value but no more than 24 - 26ish (even that is alot) after that value its pointless to aim for it even like this, the ideal value it's around 151ish + while not neglecting other stats. I must be wrong, but I will accept my mistakes and rectify and admit I'm wrong in the most civilized and humane manner as possible. Nonetheless I believe I'm done here.
On the first part bensten already explained it to you. There's no way that if a class had 70% crit (for example) would not over time experience 70% crit on all of the abilities that it uses.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminslayer
On the other part, I've chosen for kahories to merge both MH and OH strikes for me since it matters little what either is for the end result of your dps. But if you're curious:
http://i.imgur.com/Yrr6p3S.jpg
Top one is gnimos, bottom one mine. I didn't bother screening my dps as it was the same one for the sims you saw on the previous page, just with unmerged strikes. As for buffs, I've enabled everything available for horde sans ICC buff.
I'd appreciate sharing, though I suspect I know of what alterations you're speaking of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashroll
http://imgur.com/a/WQTmO
Rifos Double Havoc build with Emblem Arp Expertise cloak.
http://imgur.com/a/5WBP6
My build with Emblem gloves and VDW agil ring.
http://imgur.com/a/ODJu5
Gona do some more, was in a hurry, cya latter. :D
Edit:
Used /cancelaura for DBW procs but i realise that one of them might have better luck with RNG, il keep on testing on a dummy and after that in raids if i get the chance but i definetly think that capping expertise with 264 Might of the Ocean Serpent instead of going for TOGC 272 Strength Hit cloak is better with the curent state of expertise rating on Warmane.
Lmao, can you learn to format your wall of text, didnt even bother to read it and doubt anyone here did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashroll
Carry on turdroll
I read it, and he's coming off a lot more reasonable and credible than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminslayer2
So, 20 dummy tests, 3-5min each, waiting for ERW after each one of them, i decided to quit. Why?
Lets just say, whenever i had all the procs and CDs i ussualy did 45% glancing hits and 30% miss on melees, 1/10 Obliterate crits and so on...
Also 1 missed Icy Touch, 3 resisted pestilences, 1 missed pestilence (on itemisation with more hit) within first 1 minute is not something that makes u feel good. :D
I did get to the normal numbers and % at the end after 3minutes of questioning myself if i should quit this game in general, but whenever i needed my **** and RNG on avarage lvl atleast to maximise dps, i got fked.
Overall conclusion:
It doesnt matter which bis list u use.
Aslong as u cap hit, expertise and armor penetration and get atleast 45% crit raid buffed u are more than fine, when it comes to gearing atleast.
After that fix and perfect ur rotation.
Once u do all those things u are left to RNG. Pray for good numbers, u cant do more...
Even tho i want to feel special and use something other ppl dont use, it doesnt matter in the end. Its all up to RNG.
Sad, i know.
Altho, i still think going for TOGC cloak without capping expertise will be a DPS lost on the curent state of Warmane, especialy on a class that doesnt have extra passive 5 expertise while using Axes like Orcs do...
Its so easy to cap it anyway and u get **** ton of Armor Penetration aswell from Might of the Ocean Serpent.
@Verminslayer
What if i told u that it doesnt matter if u have 10k atk power u will sometimes do less avrg DMG than with 9k atk power.
The person that has more uptime on Fallen Crusader wins in the end anyway.
And yes, if u have 70% crit chance u will have arround 70% of ur Obliterates and Melee hits crit after 2+min fight.
Perfect example of how wrong u are is the 2 recounts i linked.
One had avrg Obliterate DMG at 10k and 57% crit total, still did less DMG overall than the 9.1k avrg Obliterate DMG with 66% crit total.
Unless u have some legit profs and something else to say, which i doubt will happen, there is no point repeating: Agi sux Strength Rocks over and over again.
2 Agility items are fine and they wont make u lose any kind of DPS. U will gain...
lets see some 10k average obliterates with 2+ agility gear pieces with a reasonable sample size. 50-100
here i just did 10 minutes worth of testing on dummies with full str offpieces, lets see your numbers and compare.
http://imgur.com/a/RIQZX
Let me just put this here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnimo
I dont know about ur DPS tests but i did
/cancelaura Sthrength of the Taunka
/cancelaura Aim of the Iron Dwarves
/cancelaura Speeed of the Vrykul
to make tests more acurate.
In both DPS atempts i used 2 agility items in my itemisation as u can see...
Holy moly, did my avarage nub agility itemisation Obliterate DMG exed ur most awesome Strength item itemisation?
How did that happen???
But tbh i dont know why do i ever bother since u dont use Blood Caked Blade at all.
Oh well... Best of luck my little friend. :D
P.S. i hope u didnt do 100 dps tests in order to link the one where u wer so lucky on RNG with procs and crits just to prove some imaginary point.