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It looks like you've taken the expertise rating, devided that by 3.9423 to get the Expertise, and then devided that result again by 3.9423, and then added them together. What you needed to do is take the Expertise Rating, divide that by 3.9423 to get the Expertise value, round it down and then multiply that by 0.25%Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulleh
So for example. 40 / 3.9423 = 10.146, rounded down to 10 x 0.25 = 2.5%
(i) i cap my expertise for the mainhand, thus wasting the oh expertiseQuote:
Originally Posted by SegaRally
(ii) i do not cap expertise for the mainhand, thus lose dps and make expertise my most desirable stat, and want to cap expertise anyways, and thus
(iii) i cap my expertise for the mainhand, thus wasting the oh expertise
Capping expertise is absolutely not a priority in T5, the numbers show that quite clearly. The only mandatory expertise item for a T5 BIS list is the belt, you can't cap expertise with just the belt. The shoulders/gloves are completely debatable due to how close they are to other items and personally I would never equip the gloves, not when there are better options (Gruuls Lair, Magtheridons Lair).. Those better options become even moreso in T6 with epic gems, for me the Al'ar gloves were never an option.. T5 4-set while using gloves from Gruul's Lair and Vashj belt as the only source of Expertise is optimal from my perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selaya
I don't understand why people can't see that Expertise capping purely at the expense of other stats is not a dps gain, you expertise cap using well itemised pieces, not by just setting an unbreakable rule that expertise must be capped, that's nonsense. On retail most people didn't get the expertise cap until they had Shard of Contempt / were in Sunwell... And hell Expertise didn't exist while people were progressing T5, it was a weapon skill stat.
As a tauren - T5 BIS set.
Helm : T5
Neck : SSC Trash
Shoulders : T5
Cloak : Vengeance Wrap / Black Iron Battlecloak
Chest : T5
Bracer : Eradication (Lurker)
Gloves : Martial Perfection (Gruuls)
Belt : One-Hundred Deaths (Vashj)
Legs : T5
Boots : Boots of Utter Darkness (LW)
Ring 1 : Band of the Ranger General
Ring 2 : Ring of Reciprocity
Trinket 1 : Dragonspine Trophy
Trinket 2 : Solarians Sapphire/Tsunami Talisman
MH weapon : Dragonstrike
OH weapon : Rod of the Sun King
Ranged weapon : Serpent Spine Longbow
Edit : In high rage situations (such as fights where you take additional regular damage, increasing rage throughput) I could drop the T5 4-set and replace the shoulders with Ripfiend Shoulderplates and the chest with Bloodsea Brigand's Vest, but that gain is negligible.
I see. Thanks for the clarification on the math. What I did was I took the expertise (say belt), 6.34 and divided by 3.9423 which is 1.608198259899044. As seen in the pic, I then added the other value (say the Gloves), and ended up with 2.76%, which then would've become 2.75% after rounding. But ah well, math's never been my strong side. :D
So in other words, 2.5% (instead of my 2.75%). Honestly, I'd still say Gloves + Belt. At least Gloves, once I get the Belt.
Looking at the Pawn values of the items Vs. each other, I wouldn't call it gimping / going out of the way using gloves over the two higher.
73.16
72.64
72.43
It's one thing if we compare the LW Exalted ring, which I can agree isn't worth it. But here, the difference is marginal. Also, the Pawn is ranking the Gloves with itself. Thanks to them we'd get 0.50% off the Exp cap which imo sounds like a good deal. Speaking of Pawn, how much (give or take) would you say the T4 2set and T5 4 set is worth? We had a discussion earlier that maybe going for just 2 pieces (not for the setbonus) of T5 and then going with the SSC Leather Chest, KT legs etc over using T5. (see earlier post (12 Bts = 5 HS etc)).
I don't mind using Gruul gloves though, except we had 0 drops so far.. so yeah. ^^
Don't forget here though the pawn value isn't taking into account the waste, you're actually getting 15.7692 expertise rating from them as a single piece. So 15.7692 x 1.12 = 17.6615.. That puts the gloves 69.9, and that is already accounting for the fact that expertise is strong, if expertise wasn't strong the gloves would not be ranking as highly as they do. Fel Leather gloves with epic gems are arguably better than these, and the Magtheridon/Gruul gloves will pull ahead further with epic gems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulleh
Edit : On the T4/T5 set bonuses it's hard to speculate that without being vague because the value of rage is not stationary, it can be worth everything or it can be worth nothing and it's left out because you can't give it a genuine value without being slightly misleading, unless you have a highly accurrate comprehensive model.
As an approximation though, the T4 2-set bonus is worth about 9 (split between 2 items) and T5 4-set is worth about 14 (split between 2 items) on single target. For reference that T4 value is about the same as 10 crit rating in a fully raid buffed setting, but increases in value considerably in lower rage situations, such as without optimal buffs or in a dungeon, and on AOE/cleave situations.
That's a good point actually. Forgive my incompetence with math but just have to ask, what's their value if paired together with the Belt? Tossing the Shapeshifter once I log back into the game.
"T5 4-set is worth about 14 (split between 2 items)"
Do you mean split between 4 items?
Do you have any reference number of comparison for the T5 4set? In a low AND high rage setting (talking approximates ofc).
And back to Annihilator, some reports from our Enhance.
Quote:
just tried the annihilator
the proc chance seems really low
will get crusader on it and test it properly next raid
Quote:
the proc chance is horrible : <
twice now on heroic target dummy, i failed to get 3 stacks, while dual wielding them
before buff ran out
Quote:
also tried with just 1 in OH
took forever to get 3 stacks
only to have the buff run out
Quote:
wearing it in OH only, cant reliably keep the buff up
and thats on a target dummy
Quote:
sometimes
i go nearly 2 min
before a proc
with both equipped
is expertise valued at >1 with str:=1?Quote:
Originally Posted by SegaRally
Yes, and stat weights for T5 were already posted in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selaya
Our shaman reported he wasn't having any issues keeping Annihilator up 100%, only having issues with the other weapons he was using. On set bonuses it depends how many items you're comparing against as replacements, legs + helm are ideal regardless of set bonuses in T5 so you're only comparing vs chest/shoulders generally, i guess you could say KT legs as an option then yes, would then be split between 3 items, 4 if you're an engineer with no intent to roll on T5 helm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulleh
I don't really have any additional insight to give on the set bonuses though, their value is situational and requires some critical thinking. In the average general situation running the T5 - 4set is going to be optimal with Chest/Shoulders/Helm/Legs being the choices, I really don't know at what threshold the 4set falls behind, it's very close between the gear sets regardless, it's not an especially strong set bonus in a raid setting.
then there's no reason at all to not cap expertise (spamgem expertise if you're not capped because exp>str), unless the value dips below 1 as soon as you cap your ohQuote:
Originally Posted by SegaRally
edit: apparently expertise gems werent a thing until 3.x
derp
Sounds good, looking at the charts. I suppose Ripfiend would be the highest gain above all. Altho I'd prob have to spend a small fortune to get it which is prob why we didn't mention it. So until then, it sounds like Martial Perfection is the way to go indeed. Thanks a lot for all the insight.Quote:
Originally Posted by SegaRally
Depending on the availability of Bloodsea Brigand's Vest it would be the better option to run with. The difference between that and t5 chest is 2.37 while the difference between t5 gloves and martial perfection is 1.56. That being said you will likely have to fight against most if not all melee for the brigand for an incredibly small gain, where the chest is incredibly good compared to the second choice for both shamans and rogues atleast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulleh
Actually no one wanted the last one, was given to our Arms Warrior in the end but I'd be less of a problem to get than Martial gloves, whom we've had none of. =/
Makes me wonder what people would charge for the Doomwalker Gun, Cloak and Kazzak Ring and Shoulder.. :(
The gun has been on horde AH for 30k+ for a couple of weeks. The ring is likely bis for everyone so I don't expect to see it around. The shoulders you can likely get lucky with for 6-10k.
If you know anyone selling any of the items, feel free to send them way. :D
I can't see the gun anymore, maybe it's sold... did make an offer on it.
Ill start by saying both our pawn value are very close (beside haste), and that there isnt much to argue about anyway.
About haste, I believe haste proc is more valuable than stat haste. It scale with other active as well as bringing greater value on average than a stat stick due to how haste stack with each other. Also dont forget that swing time is calculated at the beginning, making a 10s buff usually haste one (1.62 cause dual wield) extra attack beyond buff duration). But there are no haste proc beside DST and DS, so really this is a non issue.
However, Id argue double DS may be better than DS + Rod if you chug Haste potion like I do, and that if going DS + Rod, Rod MH DS OH might be slightly better due to the low uptime difference switching DS MH to OH (from what I tested 35/40% uptime MH and 30% uptime OH)). But we are talking peanuts increase so in the end, it doesnt matter that much.