What community thinks about decommission

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Originally Posted by namesftw

i really hope i dont get banned for this but atm obnoxious it would be better to talk a bit more to the ppl instead of deleting post, even if they broke the forum rules a bit . after all this time its not moltdown its just a server that closes no hopes for the players to return to their server. nope this time they need to transfer to a expac they clearly dont like ( most of them atleast) .

i mean alot of ppl posted they didnt even want coins just a few free 80s with starter gear. be honest is that really to much asked ?

i think the staff should be a bit more understanding for the community till the whole neltharion stuff is cleared .

sorry for my really bad english and i hope you get what im trying to say ;D

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You did nothing to get banned, but I won't just ignore my duties because people are understandably frustrated.

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Originally Posted by Sajsi

Making assumptions and judgments about anyone that you don't know nothing about is rather petty.

I have not judged you nor the above message was directed to you personally. I apologize if it was worded poorly in a way that might have made it look as such, but rather to the Warmane staff as a collective.

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I made an assumption based on the fact you talked like there's only one category of Staff and that the fact posts are being deleted and infractions are being dealt makes it so time is being "wasted" when it should be used otherwise, something that people who have had jobs in anything with more than one function for employees wouldn't try to use as argument.

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Originally Posted by Sajsi

On the other hand, you are employed in a capacity of a forum moderator here and now at Warmane with an ability to communicate the community feedback on the topic higher up the chain. Instead you choose to judge and make assumptions about me personally which will accomplish exactly nothing towards making a viable solution to the decommission of Nelt.

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You are assuming the "higher up the chain" isn't aware. And I am completely free to judge you when you judge how "time should be better spent." I at least gave you the benefit of the doubt of simply never having had any job experience that made you realize how your judging was nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Sajsi

If my right to freedom of speech is delimited by Warmane staff, and we are not to have an open debate about the issues then Warmane staff might as well close this thread, forums and any outlet that enables player/community member > staff communication.


If Warmanes privately owned business makes decisions exclusively based on Warmanes liking then why does it need player base, or forums to begin with?

Why wouldn't Warmane just do what ever it thinks is the best for its own interest and disable any feedback, debate or communication with it's player base?

Or alternatively, why wouldn't the entire player base of Warmane be artificially generated, so that no complaints, thoughts or rights would need to be listened to or respected?


Do you a Forum Moderator agree?

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I'm not going to partake in your hyperbolic drama.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

I made an assumption based on the fact you talked like there's only one category of Staff and that the fact posts are being deleted and infractions are being dealt makes it so time is being "wasted" when it should be used otherwise, something that people who have had jobs in anything with more than one function for employees wouldn't try to use as argument.


You are assuming the "higher up the chain" isn't aware. And I am completely free to judge you when you judge how "time should be better spent." I at least gave you the benefit of the doubt of simply never having had any job experience that made you realize how your judging was nonsense.


I'm not going to partake in your hyperbolic drama.

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I am truly perplexed by the level of energy, dedication and perseverance used to justify ill conceived assumptions.
After all, an assumption is just that nothing more nor less. And once again, as I already mentioned this above I categorically refuse to indulge this tactics of turning debate into direction which targets to evaluate/discredit myself instead of getting the debate back to the right course of providing better ideas, solutions and choices than the current ones in regards to decommission of Nelth.


The fact to the matter is that in the absence of hard evidence or proof to support claims and ill conceived assumptions about anyone's employment or other personal information ultimately becomes slander and hearsay.


On the contrary, it is an undeniable fact that current information released by Warmane in a form of the original decommission post , supported via multitude of forum posts of the dissatisfied end users serve as an evidence or hard proof that the current official decision is perceived and received as unsatisfactory for the majority of us the end users. It is also a fact that we as end users can evaluate and judge Warmanes past and current decisions based on the fact that we are the ones who have freely chosen to use Warmanes services and not the other way around.

We end users do not provide any sort of service to Warmane, therefore cannot be questioned, evaluated or discredited based on non facts but rather wild guesses and assumptions. In addition, we end users strive to support the project through donations and vote points in hopes of having this service available to us for a long time. As a side effect of this interaction, which is actually defined as charity rather than paid service due to legal implications, we the end users inadvertently help advertise Warmane and through donations read charity ensure profitability and employees salaries, including salaries of those that are moderating Warmane forums.

Furthermore, from the perspective of end users, the structure and or organization of a particular privately owned business and individual functions of its employees within it are not of any concern or importance to us. What is of importance and our concern is the time/resources spent on Warmanes Cataclysm service that is about to be discontinued due to no fault of ours and despite our overwhelmingly negative feedback forced into an unsatisfactory MoP service transfer. In addition, as end users of your product we are exercising the right to disagree with your current decision in regards to the Nelt decommission and ask for this decision to be revised and improved upon.


I invite all parties to once more continue this debate within the framework and with utmost focus on the matter at hand which is the Decommission of Nelth, rather than evaluation of individuals and/or Warmane staff.

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Originally Posted by Sajsi

In addition, as end users of your product we are exercising the right to disagree with your current decision in regards to the Nelt decommission and ask for this decision to be revised and improved upon.

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Others are exercising the right to express they disagree with the decision, yes. You, for almost half a dozen posts now, have been exercising the "right" to cling to a dumb claim and to act baffled that it was attributed to a lack of experience in how jobs work (which was the "tamer" explanation for believing that the deletion of posts by Moderators in some way "wastes time" from changing the decision by the Administration). The alternative was believing you understood the separation of departments fine, but just wanted to attack the Staff and used the active moderation as an excuse. Writing essays won't change that, just further sediment your inability to say something alike to "true, I didn't think before I typed that about wasting time, sorry."

As for continuing the debate, it stopped being a debate around the original post or so, with perhaps a few exceptions along the way, but mostly just players going from expressing their frustration to saying they will never come back to making threats to just being insulting in one level or another. The dissatisfaction is known. The changing of the decision isn't up to me (or any Moderator). The communication of anything changing or it staying like this isn't for me to make and wouldn't happen in this thread, but in the official announcement thread. This is purely a venting thread, even if that wasn't the original intention.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Others are exercising the right to express they disagree with the decision, yes. You, for almost half a dozen posts now, have been exercising the "right" to cling to a dumb claim and to act baffled that it was attributed to a lack of experience in how jobs work (which was the "tamer" explanation for believing that the deletion of posts by Moderators in some way "wastes time" from changing the decision by the Administration). The alternative was believing you understood the separation of departments fine, but just wanted to attack the Staff and used the active moderation as an excuse. Writing essays won't change that, just further sediment your inability to say something alike to "true, I didn't think before I typed that about wasting time, sorry."

As for continuing the debate, it stopped being a debate around the original post or so, with perhaps a few exceptions along the way, but mostly just players going from expressing their frustration to saying they will never come back to making threats to just being insulting in one level or another. The dissatisfaction is known. The changing of the decision isn't up to me (or any Moderator). The communication of anything changing or it staying like this isn't for me to make and wouldn't happen in this thread, but in the official announcement thread. This is purely a venting thread, even if that wasn't the original intention.

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I apologize for saying that Forum Moderator is wasting time moderating the forums.

I admit that I am at fault in regards to this particular sentence.

Nevertheless, that particular sentence was not the purpose of me investing time and effort writing on the forums. It was a rushed pass of wrongful judgement. Most likely a byproduct of the overwhelming frustration with the current situation and proposed solutions.

I just ask you and when I say you I mean Warmane management or decision makers within the organization to reconsider, improve upon and/or change the current decision on the decommission of Nelth. It is damaging to both us the players and Warmane as our host due to potential loss of player base.

Essentially, all that I ask from you is to please forward your experiences, observations and community feedback from the forums to those that do make such decisions in hopes of arriving to a permanent solution which is satisfactory to both sides.

Thank you,

Sajsi

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Originally Posted by Sajsi

Essentially, all that I ask from you is to please forward your experiences, observations and community feedback from the forums to those that do make such decisions in hopes of arriving to a permanent solution which is satisfactory to both sides.

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I already talked at length with my direct boss on Tuesday, the day after the update of transfers happened and before this thread even started. Asked her to bring it up with the other Admins, to clarify that just about every player from Cataclysm was counting on going to Icecrown, that some even had already started guild recruitment for when it happened, for some middle-ground to be considered for coins (donated, not from gifts or Trade), for something to be considered at least for maximum level characters of non-donors. I know she did, but that's as far as someone in my position goes - and some people are making me regret going that extra mile already.

Thank you for passing our preoccupations. Hope you will bring some understanding to the staff direction.

For a server, at the end, population have a value, more than coins!

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

I already talked at length with my direct boss on Tuesday, the day after the update of transfers happened and before this thread even started. Asked her to bring it up with the other Admins, to clarify that just about every player from Cataclysm was counting on going to Icecrown, that some even had already started guild recruitment for when it happened, for some middle-ground to be considered for coins (donated, not from gifts or Trade), for something to be considered at least for maximum level characters of non-donors. I know she did, but that's as far as someone in my position goes - and some people are making me regret going that extra mile already.

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Well I assume that the only thing that remains now is faint chance that something might be changed in such a way that is satisfactory to both sides...

I thank you for your efforts in relaying the community feedback up the chain. I appreciate you discussing this at length despite not really being in position of decision making.

Cheers and thank you for your responses once more.

yo obnoxious, inb4 someone here makes you lose your ****...

thanks for paying attention to this topic, many cata players/ex-cata players feel pretty betrayed by the server and i would like to thank you for being here and being calm and patient with us whiners.

If i could suggest,
many cata players arent pissed off about not getting coins/getting exactly what they want, i think its more about not getting SOMETHING for their time and effort. I know the argument is "Go to MoP, something has been given", but lets be honest, MoP is a vastly different game from cata, for many players its just "not the same". Many people also dont like the expansion because, for me atleast, MoP was incredibly weird.
So once again, if i may suggest, dont ask them if the cata players can get coins or a special transfer system or something,
give us what we need to create NEW characters (not remake old ones).
give us 2-3 lvl 80 boosts with an ilvl 219 or 232 itemset (make us choose between pvp or pve, not both)
give those lvl 80s 440 proff (so we can make the last few items, or max if you are generous)
give them enough gold to just be able to fly in northrend (not the 280% speed, 150% is enough).
I believe making a system that can give us that may take some time, but it doesnt put us infront of everyone else and neither puts us behind everyone else.
You also leave us space for donating for hc gear etc.

I understand that its not up to you to give us this, but you can pass it upwards if you think its a good idea.
Ty for being patient with us in our grieving and when you do manage to be able to play, have fun!

I totally understand the decision of the decommission, since the server was mostly dead for month, but i really need to ask this question.

Warmane/Molten had a really really good cata realm, before this moltdown, why we cant bring it back to this time and level. I mean you did it once, you made it to make this server great and popular in your own way. And i really need to ask why you didnt do it again?

I mean when the staff isnt willing or interested anymore in a Cataclysm realm you can say it i guess since this is a privat server everybody knows that coins are volatile and so i mostly dont understand this qqing, but why we cant "make Cata great again" with Trumps words? You, the staff is able to do it, advertising and things isnt a problem for you as we see it for the Wotlk Realms. At all i would like to know why you dont invest the time and work in Cataclysm which u did for Wotlk?

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Originally Posted by Maygodsaveu

yo obnoxious, inb4 someone here makes you lose your ****...

thanks for paying attention to this topic, many cata players/ex-cata players feel pretty betrayed by the server and i would like to thank you for being here and being calm and patient with us whiners.

If i could suggest,
many cata players arent pissed off about not getting coins/getting exactly what they want, i think its more about not getting SOMETHING for their time and effort. I know the argument is "Go to MoP, something has been given", but lets be honest, MoP is a vastly different game from cata, for many players its just "not the same". Many people also dont like the expansion because, for me atleast, MoP was incredibly weird.
So once again, if i may suggest, dont ask them if the cata players can get coins or a special transfer system or something,
give us what we need to create NEW characters (not remake old ones).
give us 2-3 lvl 80 boosts with an ilvl 219 or 232 itemset (make us choose between pvp or pve, not both)
give those lvl 80s 440 proff (so we can make the last few items, or max if you are generous)
give them enough gold to just be able to fly in northrend (not the 280% speed, 150% is enough).
I believe making a system that can give us that may take some time, but it doesnt put us infront of everyone else and neither puts us behind everyone else.
You also leave us space for donating for hc gear etc.

I understand that its not up to you to give us this, but you can pass it upwards if you think its a good idea.
Ty for being patient with us in our grieving and when you do manage to be able to play, have fun!

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You know that noone will listen to you? Simple because there is x ppl with y suggestions like yours. You ask for level boost, other guy ask for 100% coins refund and the third guy has z-suggestion.

All you do is selfishly "suggesting" what's best suited for you. There was like 20 threads with suggestions in the past week, all deleted, when you people will finally understand that it's not up to you what staff will decide?

Obnoxious said it already 10 times that he talked to staff about better solution so how about you just wait and see what's going to happen instead of blindly giving all the time selfish solutions which you claim " people want " while you are the only one who wants this coz it's the best suited for you?

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Originally Posted by Maygodsaveu

If i could suggest,
many cata players arent pissed off about not getting coins/getting exactly what they want, i think its more about not getting SOMETHING for their time and effort. I know the argument is "Go to MoP, something has been given", but lets be honest, MoP is a vastly different game from cata, for many players its just "not the same". Many people also dont like the expansion because, for me atleast, MoP was incredibly weird.
So once again, if i may suggest, dont ask them if the cata players can get coins or a special transfer system or something,
give us what we need to create NEW characters (not remake old ones).
give us 2-3 lvl 80 boosts with an ilvl 219 or 232 itemset (make us choose between pvp or pve, not both)
give those lvl 80s 440 proff (so we can make the last few items, or max if you are generous)
give them enough gold to just be able to fly in northrend (not the 280% speed, 150% is enough).
I believe making a system that can give us that may take some time, but it doesnt put us infront of everyone else and neither puts us behind everyone else.
You also leave us space for donating for hc gear etc.

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Your suggestion is pretty humble. I personally don't consider asking for a portion of coins from direct donations to be too much. Yeah, people did play and get to make use of whatever they got with the coins spent, the time spent playing won't be "traded back" for coins, but it's still money people invested in us. Something like 20-50% non-tradable, non-giftable coins as the specific expansion is being discontinued, but the project goes on, doesn't strikes me as absurd. It's still a personal opinion, and even that would get people throwing a fit because it's too little. Some people are probably raging over you suggesting even less.

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Originally Posted by neemdraa

I mean when the staff isnt willing or interested anymore in a Cataclysm realm you can say it i guess since this is a privat server everybody knows that coins are volatile and so i mostly dont understand this qqing, but why we cant "make Cata great again" with Trumps words? You, the staff is able to do it, advertising and things isnt a problem for you as we see it for the Wotlk Realms. At all i would like to know why you dont invest the time and work in Cataclysm which u did for Wotlk?

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It probably gets down to an unfavorable RoI. There is public for the expansion, but the others still seem to attract more. The expansion is a point where Blizzard started to add a lot of complexity with phases and other mechanics, which seem to be a huge pain in the *** to emulate, requiring much more effort in coding and testing and getting right (or as close to right as manageable). The older expansions don't have that sort of complications to that level and attract a large group of players. When you put all that together, and along with the other more successful expansions still having bugs and requiring more fixes and refinement... Cataclysm gets the short end of the stick. Sucks for players who prefer that expansion, but reality trumps feelings.

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Originally Posted by Satia

Obnoxious said it already 10 times that he talked to staff about better solution so how about you just wait and see what's going to happen instead of blindly giving all the time selfish solutions which you claim " people want " while you are the only one who wants this coz it's the best suited for you?

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Calm down, he just tried to suggest something more grounded and humble in hopes that asking less might result in getting at least something.

In case downgrading is still beeing considered: Population wise it would make more sense to implement transfers to TBC.
Icecrown is already a overpopulated realm and it really doesn't need more ppl.
Outland on the other hand has a 8k pop at peak times while the realm would be cappable to hold 15k.

I guess the amount of characters that gonna be able to transfer shouldn't be underestimated.
Maybe in the end Neltharion was empty but when the moltdown happend there were thousands of players that created characters on Cata with the refunded coins.
So there are probably a few thousands that are going to transfer their chars now.
Maybe not the best idea to let them transfer to a overpopulated realm...

@obnoxious
So what happen to some of us that have maximum amount of character in let say frostwolf for now and icc if downgrading still being considered. We just want to preserve our toon that we play. I dont really think for coin refund, and deleting toons in other realm (frostwolf for me) is not really an option.

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Originally Posted by kairxa

@obnoxious
So what happen to some of us that have maximum amount of character in let say frostwolf for now and icc if downgrading still being considered. We just want to preserve our toon that we play. I dont really think for coin refund, and deleting toons in other realm (frostwolf for me) is not really an option.

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No idea. Either you just can't transfer or you will have to create a new account to transfer them to, I suppose.

better give us some free level ups to level 80 no one want to play in MOP cmon.