[Guide] Combat Rogue PvE

because you WILL miss here at as high as 8.33% (during my observations).
in my testing all of 2.11%+3/3 talent 4% + 2/3 talent and 4.33% and 2/3 talent still resulted misses. Having ~3% and 3/3 talent removed all the misses. Those are my results.
Just for this, I will reforge and retry some of the milestones tomorrow. And please, for testing purposes - use boss mobs in uldum or raids for example, never the heroic dummy.
And for rest of ideas you claim to be my unprooved creation, point them out and I'll post my result, even reassume and retest as needed.
I never intended to take/give any kind of credit or misunderstandings with my post, i simply want for people to understand a situation combat rogues are in now. Every day there are people that cry, shout and harass me over and over with questions suggestion and all the things.
I did not come here seeking advice or recognition of any sort. I just want to share what I have been through, to share what still makes me stand better than same combat rogues in much better gears.
Yes, I may be mistaken somewhere. Yes, maybe I missed some fixed in time i was away from wow in summer. But I am yet to see someone prove me wrong. Even if that does not make me right, my dps still makes me among best

Hello, Ea. I spent some time with you in a Greymane guild so I know that you are indeed a good rogue Thank you for the posts and I'd like to add something, dont try to steer a blind horse. Sadly, most of the rogues here are too ignorant to believe let alone test themselves certain stats, talents and all that.

I remember when me and rec (yeah i know him we are in the same guild now) said that mastery was way too good of a stat in the current. let me stress that even more CURRENT, state that molten rogues are and we were almost laughed at and nobody believed us. I'm sure that 99.99% didn't even bother to test if it were true. So my advice is just keep your "secrets" since you wont get any appreciation for sharing.
Cheers.

Hi there, Ea.

When I first made this guide, I tried it to be as correct as possible. However, "correct" is a relative term when it comes to private servers and it is far more important for a guide to be relevant to the current situation on the Pserver instead of being correct retail-wise. Having said that, a couple of days after I made this guide I modified it heavily, receiving support from the Rogue community, so that it could be Molten-relevant. What I mean is basically the stat weight - I had originally posted the retail-wise Agi>Haste>etc weight.

So yes, I did design this guide under Molten bugs, because the aim of a guide is to help players achieve the maximum they can... even if it includes bug exploits. I mean come on, I don't think that Molten will start banning Rogues for deliberately stacking Mastery. This is as far as beneficial bugs go on Molten however, together with refreshing Bandit's Guile.

I have no observations on Haste. As far as glyphs go, I can confirm that GoRvS works. I've observed it with Kidney Shot, which is a solid ability that doesn't change depending on procs etc. I'm guessing it could also be easily tested with Rupture and some stopattack/removeaura macros. Also, I just noticed the bug report that Soulsseeker posted. I wasn't aware of this, thank you.

Regarding Rupture, even when you can't be on the target at all times, you'd do better using those CPs on Evi instead of a Rupture. Rupture does not work with Restless Blades and Revealing Strikes, which makes it a horrible finisher. Refer to the bugs thread at the top of the Rogue section.

Thanks for the support!

edit: I can't believe we waited so long for an update only to receive NO fixes on Rogues whatsoever.

http://a84i.img-up.net/WoWScrnShoa67b.jpg
http://d21i.img-up.net/WoWScrnSho5e66.jpg
misses on 6.5mil damage with main gauche and sinister strike at whooping 2.01% hit and 3/3 talent
edit: pics dont load...

Thx for the screens, I gotta admit it's really disturbing.

What is the target you made the tests on?

Doesn't matter. Even on the boss dummy he should never miss with SS and MG with 8% hit and the damage base is quite big, so the 1% is solid.

Edit: It could be that Precision is bad and still gives a total of 5% or something. It can be tested by doing a test w/o it, but the tester will need to gem/reforge hit in order to reach 8%. If he still misses 1%, then it's a core Molten problem, which affects ALL classes.

Guys anyone noticed any dps decrease after bug fix?
Im asking bcoz I have noticed a reduction in dps be it in raids or in rdf hcs.
Anyone else has this issue?

Also i wanted to test out Tia's Grace. Farmed Tolvir for a week.
However Fluid Death + Volatile Alchemists Stone reforged for mastery gave me more dps (about 1-1.5k more) than having Fluid Death + Tia's Grace.
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Originally Posted by Stellar

Thank you for the posts and I'd like to add something, dont try to steer a blind horse. Sadly, most of the rogues here are too ignorant to believe let alone test themselves certain stats, talents and all that.

I remember when me and rec (yeah i know him we are in the same guild now) said that mastery was way too good of a stat in the current. let me stress that even more CURRENT, state that molten rogues are and we were almost laughed at and nobody believed us. I'm sure that 99.99% didn't even bother to test if it were true. So my advice is just keep your "secrets" since you wont get any appreciation for sharing.
Cheers.

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Stellar. It is OK to be questioned if u share something which departs from normal mechanisms of working. However when people did understand that it was good they followed it didnt they?

Please just dont write off everyone. Always ready for more bug testing ^^

I did not notice dps change though i can tell that combat is heavily affected by server load, and game has been pretty slow after update

Edit:
If there is a way, we should try to be more active in making rogue fixes happen, and not only fixing the stuff that makes us better somewhere. I got few more gears and now it is becoming crazy. I really hope for most things to be fixed before the era of full endgame gear rogues everywhere

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Originally Posted by taralej

Doesn't matter. Even on the boss dummy he should never miss with SS and MG with 8% hit and the damage base is quite big, so the 1% is solid.

Edit: It could be that Precision is bad and still gives a total of 5% or something. It can be tested by doing a test w/o it, but the tester will need to gem/reforge hit in order to reach 8%. If he still misses 1%, then it's a core Molten problem, which affects ALL classes.

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Well it does, it could be a player :D

Anyways all jokes aside, only thing I can think of is that he has less rating than the 2% required and the Molten char screen rounds up that 2% weirdly. He should check how much hit rating he has.

Also considering how the epic gear looks like atm, and the bis items, there is way too much hit floating around to care about a measly 1% - if this bug proves to be correct.

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Originally Posted by Griefel

Well it does, it could be a player :D

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Player hit cap is 5%

at higher masteries (20-21+) mastery rating becomes competable with agi, such as Fluid Death reforged to mastery is practically same dps (just a tiny bit better) as tia's grace (tia's grace gives just enough additional mastery to get 0.5 more) - And in many cases (like absolutely any case where burst is more important - magmaw, halfus, omni etc), Unsolvable Riddle - Hellscream trinket (and ally counterpart) beats Fluid death by a solid margin (Once again, its about meeting the breakpoints EXACTLY or just over them). The only exception is Darkmoon card - its proc is just too good to be beaten by anything.

Edit: One more update - with this mastery is seems more reasonable to use deadly on mainhand and instant on offhand
Edit2: for those not having two parts of t11 (legs+gloves) or Omnitron shoulders (that wont drop until loot bug is fixed) - your best option is vici shoulders + vici gloves. Double attack handguard from chima beat 2 pvp set only on heroic version

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Originally Posted by misams

at higher masteries (20-21+) mastery rating becomes competable with agi, such as Fluid Death reforged to mastery is practically same dps as tia's grace (tia's grace gives just enough additional mastery to get 0.5 more) - And in many cases (like absolutely any case where burst is more important - magmaw, halfus, omni etc), Unsolvable Riddle - Hellscream trinket (and ally counterpart) beats Fluid death by a solid margin (Once again, its about meeting the breakpoints EXACTLY or just over them). The only exception is Darkmoon card - its proc is just too good to be beaten by anything.

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Any math to back this up? Afterall Agi does increase Maingauche direct damage. And also how can DMC:H static damage can even compete with stats that involve bugs???

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Originally Posted by misams

Edit: One more update - with this mastery is seems more reasonable to use deadly on mainhand and instant on offhand

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Do you even know what you're saying? You're saying you want to stack deadly faster and drop damage from instant because afterall MainGauche hits with the mainhand only...

You prolly missed it but what was your target when you did the hit tests, and how much hit rating do you have?

@taralej: That's base, you're discounting talents(that maybe bugged), class abilities that add extra miss, or racials. But that was a joke anyway. :)

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Change logs have passed and there are no changes to rogues :C

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Originally Posted by Griefel

how can DMC:H static damage can even compete with stats that involve bugs???

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DMC:H has no ICD. Neither does MG. DMC can proc off special attacks. MG is a special attack.

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Do you even know what you're saying? You're saying you want to stack deadly faster and drop damage from instant because afterall MainGauche hits with the mainhand only...

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When DP stacks 5 times, it starts applying the other weapon's poison. This change was introduced back at patch 3.2.x more than 2 years ago.

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@taralej: That's base, you're discounting talents(that maybe bugged), class abilities that add extra miss, or racials.

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There are no such in Cata. That's the point. Blizzard removed them because of RNG QQ

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Change logs have passed and there are no changes to rogues :C

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ikr.

man at 20 mastery, one point of mastery is worth roughly 70% (40% + 40% of 40% + 40% of 40% of 40% and so on) more than it should, making mastery go around 2 aep where as agi at 2.4-2.6.

I didnt say 1 point of agi is worse that one mastery rating. I said that some agi more Fluid death offers is at those levels worth a bit less than ~120 extra mastery rating on Tia's Grace. Fluid death is still better, but only by a minimal amount because it gives important hit instead.

As for Unsolvable riddle - mastery bonus and proc you can decide when to use outweights everything fluid death has to offer in conditions where for example boss damage taken is increased for a short time.

Considering rogues have vanish, blasting unsolvable riddle on first magmaw head and vanishing after to switch to fluid death is a huge boost. Riddle offers 321 mastery and ~300 agi, fluid death 128 mastery and 480 agi. 180 agi is crearly better overall. 2x of 1600 agi for 20 sec vs 2x of 480 agi = it takes at lot of time to catch up to that
DMC:H damage is simply awesome. And it scales actually very nicely with crit and can proc a lot if you are lucky (and the amount of attacks combat rogues make is just for that)

About poison. If you were not aware, deadly was usually put on offhand SO IT COULD STACK FASTER. With main gauche like this, you actually land far more MH attacks. And from you post i have a feeling that you are not ware that apllying a deadly to s 5 stacks of deadly makes poison from other hand proc.

Hit tests were from both dummies and boss mobs in uldum. Like it really matters. at 8.01% you should not miss any target at all. No matter what it is