Blood, Frost, Unholy. Gnimo's way of how to DK.

http://imgur.com/a/kaPbx
DBS and Fester

http://imgur.com/a/pyUAD
Lich King 25m normal (killed it while i was inside suc)

http://imgur.com/a/CqRbZ
Best FPS somalia on minimum graps

Those wer all without 4% phisical dmg increase from the Crogue and without 20% armor reduction from Warriors (cosbad).
Overall not a perfect raid to test **** in.


As for Blood DPS itemisation goes:
[Lana'thel's Chain of Flagellation]
[Vereesa's Dexterity]
[Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance]
[Frostbrood Sapphire Ring]
[Toskk's Maximized Wristguards]
[Coldwraith Links]
[Apocalypse's Advance]
5/5 T10
This Build will give u most and best stats imo.

U need atleast 50-53% crit chance as Blood in order to do good DPS.
HS deals 245% of normal hit when it crits, DS deals 245%, Melee deals 200%.
So, 75-82% of ur total DMG done comes from those abilities.

But same **** as frost, RNG will decide the winner and how much DPS u do...

http://imgur.com/a/2zDKW

lk normal
Fester hc
and
dbs hc

all 3 of my raids had 4% increased physical from rogue, no sunder armor cuz lazy wars.

You are right about rng and perfect raid enviroment but the evidence is pretty clear, the crit% almost makes no diff by going for more agility offpieces. that is the point im trying to make.

also i play on 300+ ping

added gear: cloak is tmoggd, it is eof cloak. dual havocs
http://imgur.com/a/Ql80y

Quote:

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Originally Posted by verminslayer

http://imgur.com/a/2zDKW

lk
Fester
and
dbs

all 3 of my raids had 4% increased physical from rogue, no sunder armor cuz lazy wars.

You are right about rng and perfect raid enviroment but the evidence is pretty clear, the crit% almost makes no diff by going for more agility offpieces. that is the point im trying to make.

also i play on 300+ ping

added gear: cloak is tmoggd, it is eof cloak. dual havocs
http://imgur.com/a/Ql80y

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sex dps, did it how long ago?
5t10?

Gnimo you focus too much on crit crit crit, not everything is crit.

I've played blood for years with many different combos. some time I even tested with 50% crit and as usual when you're 6.9 the few items wont mater that much but still full str is the way to go. with full str setup you have 47%-48% fully buffed which is just fine!

blood /= frost. blood itemaztion is much more straight forward since they easily reach 90% cap you can easily prioritize your stats.
since you take the most out of your yellow sockets unlike frost which are simi forced to cap their stats through .


Gnimo itemaztion

Spoiler: Show

http://imgur.com/a/aEtYI

Trm90 itemaztion

Spoiler: Show

http://imgur.com/a/afkG6

using sindy10hc legs, gives superior arp.

@Verminslayer
U realise u are a Orc and that u used a Flask? Ignoring the fact that u wer in better raid envirenment... And yet, DPS on DBS was more or less almost the same?
But again, recounts mean nothing cos they are decided based on how long boss was on 35% or less HP and RNG on ur procs.
Again, aslong as u dont use BCB u cant win against a FDK that uses it.
On top of that, i think there is a better way to go full strength Build, with capping the expertise, not leaving it at 24, which makes me wonder how u didnt get dodged more often.

@Trm90
Why did u use a Sim to try and prove me wrong when u said it urself that using DD glyph on a Sim makes u do more DPS while using Glyph of Disease is a proven and better way to go ingame? Or did i got that wrong?

I will link some pics soon on both topics...

I'll begin with a slight introduction. I've begun playing death knight at release; 3.0.2 - Started as Shadowfrost, moved on to Unholy DW, Frost 2h, Blood, Frost DW and eventually Unholy 2h till Cata.
I've helped built Kahorie's sim and Zerack's optimizer among other tools and guides known to the Death Knight community.
I'll gladly provide proof of my identity to whomever deems it necessary in private.

In most cases I rather keep myself apart of discussions such as this. But due to the depths this thread has gone into I've went through the latest posts within this thread to bring myself up to speed regarding the matter.

Just to make sure I'm clear on the debate, main question here is if to go Frost ARP or not? If so I'll elaborate a response once at home.

It is worth mentioning that I am unfamiliar with warmane's specific scripting and bugtracker so some of my information will be invalid for this realm.

Most people already accept that going for ARP in high-end gear is the way of squeezing the most dps out of dks. I think the main point of argument is whether a frost/blood dk should go for a full strength setup (excluding weapons) or if he should mix in agility pieces. As well as whether expertise is a particularly needed stat when you're a frost dk.

@Gnimo

Am not here to prove you wrong am here to confer about some items and disagreeing with whom it may be if I'm able to contribute. how you take it is of no consequence to me.

Sims will never 100% = play no matter what. but they are consistent. if they weren't we won't have 2pages of sims which you have been employing yourself through riko in the past 2 pages. so lets not play the game of disregarding info when they are not in our favor.

my belief in sims is irrelevant when you're the one who was employing them anyway. using your own sims I showed you different itemization and str pulled ahead. that's all to it!

When i made this post i said haste is a **** stat and now i understand its value and i will probably use it on my new BIS list.
I also had some suggestions when it comes to a bit more hit which i now consider valuable aswell.
Im not here to be the smartest guy on forums, nor do i want to, nor do i think i am. I want to come here, post something, and learn something out of it after other posts aswell.
Reason i wanted to see those Sims was just curiosity. Wanted to see how will my itemisation act versus the ones u consider BiS, which again doesnt make me belive in those. How i see a Sim is like DPSing a dummy for 10 hours. I try to itemise and make my DK based on some logic and how it will work on a fight like Lich King 25m HC, which i consider the one and only important boss fight in this expansion.
I dont care if im wrong, i like ppl proving me wrong so i can improve, altho i do know i can be a pain in the *** when i think im right, but i dont like when ppl come and talk about topics like: Full Strenght itemisation vs Agility parts without even going for BCB in the first place. And i also dont understand how can going more crit when 50%+ of ur total DMG done deals 250% of ur normal DMG, aka Blood DPS.
There is a reason why i dont like to edit my posts and what i wrote, again, im sorry if im a pain in the *** but i would love for u to prove me wrong on everything i say and open my eyes.

As for my previous post goes, i didnt have much time today to do everything i wanted but i was wrong and there is no better way in order to go Full Strength itemisation without losing that much Hit rating and not going Double Havoc build. Also without going BS and JC like Verminslayer does.
On other topics i dont think i made any mistake so far...

BCB is crap especially if you are running low hit like yourself, why take something useless that procs off your auto's when you can increase ur obliterate crit chance.

bcb is basically a budget hack and slash but much worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by verminslayer

BCB is crap especially if you are running low hit like yourself, why take something useless that procs off your auto's when you can increase ur obliterate crit chance.

bcb is basically a budget hack and slash but much worse.

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Funnily enough, I used to think the same, but BCB is in fact superior to Subversion when it comes to dps. Sadly BCB does not provide the extra threat reduction.

how is it superior, it literally gives a flat 3%-3.5% at most in overall damage with 3/3 bcb, while 3/3 subversion gives obltierate 5%+ overall + threat reduction, in a raid enviroment bcb won't scale as well as your obliterates from all the buffs you get in raid.

and the build i assume you are using is 1/52/18? that is what i tested it at, and bcb gave me 3.5% on a dummy, lets take away the point from subversion and put it into black ice to make it 5/5 or km, now you can see the difference each point in subversion makes.

the only way i can see it being a dps increase overall is if you still put 3/3 subversion and take 1 point out of killing machine and putting it into bcb to make it 1/3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by verminslayer

how is it superior, it literally gives a flat 3%-3.5% at most in overall damage with 3/3 bcb, while 3/3 subversion gives obltierate 5%+ overall + threat reduction, in a raid enviroment bcb won't scale as well as your obliterates from all the buffs you get in raid.

and the build i assume you are using is 1/52/18? that is what i tested it at, and bcb gave me 3.5% on a dummy, lets take away the point from subversion and put it into black ice to make it 5/5 or km, now you can see the difference each point in subversion makes.

the only way i can see it being a dps increase overall is if you still put 3/3 subversion and take 1 point out of killing machine and putting it into bcb to make it 1/3

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http://imgur.com/a/fmQBg

666468 damage overall from OBs; Let's abbreviate this as A.
(666468/100)*54 = 359892.72 damage crits made.

666468 = 46*x + 54*2.537*x; 2.537 is the modifier for crits
x = 3641.94;
3/3 Subversion would translate to roughly

Y = 37(3641.94) + 63*2.537*(3641.94); Y = 716846.69

Y-A = 50378.69 damage increase from 3/3 Subversion to Obliterate.
You can apply the same maths to Blood Strike from the pic. Since I'd rather not write it all down again for BS, the damage increase would be ~2386 which totals and increase of 52764.69 compared to an increase of 56248 from BCB.

The damage is in favor of BCB, however, as I already said BCB lacks the threat reduction. I did the tests with 0/53/18 as can be seen in my armory.

P.S. If someone notices something off in my math I'll do my best to fix it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rifokelt

Funnily enough, I used to think the same, but BCB is in fact superior to Subversion when it comes to dps. Sadly BCB does not provide the extra threat reduction.

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Nobody used to believe me when I'd tell them that BCB is superior for DPS. Including when I'd cite EJ.
But yes, double-edged blade there. Definitely only get it instead of Subversion if you raid with competent tanks and Hunters/Rogues.