What do you think it the most OP PVP class on Warmane?

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Originally Posted by truthwow1

1250 AP for 15 sec is not equally strong to 416 passive AP. Burst is all that matters in PvP so that huge extra dmg for a 15 sec duration is significant stronger than 416 passive AP.

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I mean you can get trinket proc when it is absolutelly useless. For example you get trinket proc into 8 sec cc or you get it while you need to play defensively. In this case it would be actually better to have 416 passive ap, because after the cc you have more stats than warrior with trinket proc. You can also use orc racial when it is needed and not randomly like trinket proc. I am not saying that human racial is not best for pvp, but its also not completely broken like many players are saying.

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Originally Posted by Draxxisforum

I mean you can get trinket proc when it is absolutelly useless. For example you get trinket proc into 8 sec cc or you get it while you need to play defensively. In this case it would be actually better to have 416 passive ap, because after the cc you have more stats than warrior with trinket proc.

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Yes the trinket proc can be waisted when you end up in a CC but the thing is that the ICD is only 45 sec. Every 45 sec you have a 15 sec time window in which you can deal enormous burst dmg with two trinkets procs paired with bladestorm which makes you immun to CC and EMFH to break CC.
In the end you have with these 2 trinket procs just much more opportunities to kill opponents with burst.

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Originally Posted by Draxxisforum

its also not completely broken like many players are saying.

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When it wasn't broken we would see class diversity in the competitive play.

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Originally Posted by truthwow1

When it wasn't broken we would see class diversity in the competitive play.

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And we use to see Class diversity in the past. The problem is today everyone know Human racial is strongest in PVP and min max.

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Originally Posted by Draxxisforum

Can someone actually give me real information regarding human racial and not only "its op"?
I have tried to calculate it between human and orc when you play warrior.

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Orc also have their stun passive racial, which is very strong against specific comps. However overall Human is way better choice because Orc benefit only in specific situations while Human benefit in every situation. Competitive players will always min max, which leads to every serious player going human.

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Originally Posted by Perigon

LOL, tell me you're not seriously blaming Warmane for EMFH as designed by BLIZZARD being op? This has got to be a troll post, right?

The truth of the matter is that, in TBC, horde racials were vastly superior, so I think Blizzard figured in WOTLK "let's make an alliance racial op, then we'll make a lot of money from faction transfers." Which they no doubt did.

But to blame Warmane for not taking it upon themselves to actually change a major part of the expansion as designed by Blizzard is just too dumb for words.

And by the way, horde, not ally, has the top premade battleground guild (Old Division).

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Actually just the idea of destroying the balance of the game by BLIZZARD to make money from faction change , It is so disrespectful and greedy move , i don t want to play human at all but i am forced to , BECAUSE IT IS VERY BROKEN , NOT JUST BROKEN BUT VERY BROKEN humans have not just the trinket but stealth detection + spirit + sword + mace specialization. Fixing it would be great touch for WARMANE , it will show great respect for the players and the game , unlike the greedy ****s Activizzion_Blizzard.

It is shameless even to say that result of 2x pve trinket is equal to1x pve.
At least don't lie here.
The counter facts are ok but denial and lies are something else.
Some moderator said here "complaining won't change anything"
And he was defending racial.
He must like his Paladin. XD

Oh god. Don't necro this toxic thread.
Let it rest in peace.

This server is all about Awar/Hpal and has nothing to do with racials? Must I remind you all that this is indeed Blizzard's game, but it's not blizzard's script? This is a pro war/pal shadowmourne buying machine script and this is the real problem we should address! Compare % winrate of the 30IQ Awar/Hpal comp with others even Homerjay and you will see a difference that should not exist in any PvP game!!!

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Originally Posted by Butkus

yes i understand what your saying this is patch 3.3.5 correct? so what lead to patch 3.3.5?there was another 3/4ths of wrath that lead to 3.3.5, i think s5 alone lasted for almost 6 months and thats along time considering wrath lasted for what 2 years? what people are complaining about in 3.3.5 is becasue things happened pre 3.3.5 , see my point? like if you got into a fist fight that fight is the end result something lead to that fight.

that leads me to 2v2 you do understand 2v2 does not count right?i said a million times blizz scrapped 2v2 and told everyone to play 3v3 so thats why 3v3 had high #'s of players and specs in it, it was the ONLY choice. so unless there are special rules for 2v2 on icecrown then no one should be talking about them. its crazy really everyone knows wraths pvp was a joke for the most part other then 3v3 towards the end of the x-pac yet no one plays 3v3 here,why? that is why most are here complaining... its like a never ending circle they are complaining about a broken bracket that was scrapped by blizz 10 years ago and was never fixed.

the human racial is another good example that racial came at the start of wrath not 3.3.5 but yet its still the same. army of the dead cant be used in arena right? it was allowed in s5 s6 when dks broke pvp/arena = that lead to 3.3.5, cause and effect.
dks still the best tanks in game on icecrown?pallys still better tanks then warriors?im will say yes even pve dps hows arms vs dk vs ret?both blew arms away all of wrath in pve dps. this is why arms needed massive buffs they had no place in game in either pvp or pve and if warmane hard nerfed arms for the sake of a scrapped 2v2 bracket where would that leave arms again = replaced by pallys and dks in every aspect. it funny the ONLY bracket people complain about warriors is 2v2 as thats the role blizz gave them MS bots when paired with pallys and dks. no one here is talking about 1v1 arms needs nerfs or arms does to much damage in icc correct? in 3v3 or 5v5 open world?i have not seen many people say arms in 5's is op'ed nerf them...they just keep talking about 2v2, why? if people are hardcore wrath players why are they playing 2v2? round and round.

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Actually **** it! What this guy says is real! We should all ditch 2v2 and let Awar/Hpal comps beat each other 30 minutes each arena! The only way we could revive this server is if we all go 3v3/5v5 and try to win with skills instead of 30IQ dps/healer 2v2 comps!

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Originally Posted by Pavkataaa

This server is all about Awar/Hpal and has nothing to do with racials? Must I remind you all that this is indeed Blizzard's game, but it's not blizzard's script? This is a pro war/pal shadowmourne buying machine script and this is the real problem we should address! Compare % winrate of the 30IQ Awar/Hpal comp with others even Homerjay and you will see a difference that should not exist in any PvP game!!!

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I mean the game would be much better with 277 pve only and without shadowmourne. Also we need s8 start gear on fun server, cuz its already 9 years since 3.3.5a came out. I am pretty sure alot of people just want to play arena without farming gear on every class that we want to play. I am playing on 6 classes, can i just create character and start playing arena with the same conditions for every player.

If highend PvE gear wasn't useable in arena then the quality of PvP would improve drastically but nobody would donate for PvE offparts anymore.
Is there a solution that would make PvP more balanced but w/o reducing Warmanes income?

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Originally Posted by mier

If highend PvE gear wasn't useable in arena then the quality of PvP would improve drastically but nobody would donate for PvE offparts anymore.
Is there a solution that would make PvP more balanced but w/o reducing Warmanes income?

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all about the money, it could be sepparated server, or all characters that bought gear on fun serv could be transfered to icecrown or lordaeron or idc))

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Originally Posted by mier

If highend PvE gear wasn't useable in arena then the quality of PvP would improve drastically but nobody would donate for PvE offparts anymore.
Is there a solution that would make PvP more balanced but w/o reducing Warmanes income?

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The two solutions most commonly suggested were:
A) Nerf or re-design the human racial, or
B) Put 3 or 4 gem sockets on the pvp trinket (or even just buff it with a lot more stats)

There were other suggestions, but in the end, Warmane came up with mercenary mode.
They have expressed pleasure in their opinion that MM has worked. I disagree. MM has done absolutely nothing to fix arenas and absolutely nothing to fix world pvp. The only place it has any effect is in BGs, but even there, I see it as seriously flawed. Yes it drastically reduced Alliance whining about long Q times. Great. Help the Alliance and do nothing to help the Horde problem. Makes sense. One of the issues is, we (Horde) can't control who comes over from the alli side. Sometimes we get a top notch alli player and they help us win. And sometimes we get alli players in horde BGs who AFK or expect to be carried. It also sews the seeds of discord in Horde BGs, because Horde players know and remember alli players, and obviously some of them have very negative histories with some of the more aggressive alli players. I've seen Horde players refuse to heal or come to the aid of MM alli toons and vice versa - because they HATE each other. They're supposed to hate each other on some level. THAT is how the game was designed. I've seen Horde players spitting on MM alli players and vice versa before the BG even starts. This creates an obvious disunity among the Horde teams at times. As everyone knows, you have to work together to secure the objectives to win BGs. As a result, I've lost BGs only because there was zero teamwork due to there being so much discord on the mutt Horde team created by MM.

Also, Warmane's claim for their reasoning for not nerfing the human racial was that it was not keeping the integrity of the game intact. Not being faithful to the original. My argument against that is that NOTHING could be more of a violation of the original design of the game than asking Horde and Alli to work together in any form of pvp. That is WAY more of a violation of the original design of the game. And this only happens Horde side. Alliance can and do create 10 man and 15 man premades. There's really not a pvp Horde guild that can consistently do this because so many people want to be on the winning side and want to min/max properly. It's broken and it's a failure IMO.

TL:DR - There were solutions offered, but the one they chose is a failure.
Needs to be revisited. Horde players still get the short straw.

The racial doesnt matter, what matters is where the pvp players are. If horde racials are slightly better people will play on horde, this will by itself create a pull for people to go horde (more people = easier to find people to play with). Take retail, everyone played horde on TBC for pvp because the racials where better, and people stuck to horde all the way up to wod (for the US, EU switched sooner) even though humans were clearly better then the rest. But because players were on the Horde side people played horde.

If you nerf the human racial/balance it people will eventually simply swap to whatever race is instead the best race for pvp, which in turn will create a new faction unbalance if it happens to be a horde racial. Again, look at when they finally nerfed emfh in legion, everyone went horde for pvp becase of the racials. The minmaxers/"pros" go first, the rest follows.


This is especially true to warmane since faction changes are basicely free.


There will always be a best racial.

While it may be true that "There will always be a best racial", as it stands now, one racial is (because of the easy availability of heroic BiS pve trinkets) FAR AND AWAY the best racial. It's not even close. It's VASTLY superior to the other 9 races. To this day, I don't understand why the game developers thought that was a fair and balanced racial. It allows you to effectively have 3 trinkets, minus 153 resil. It's one thing to have a slight advantage. It's another entirely different animal when virtually 80% - 90% of the players in the top of arena brackets are one race, when there are ten races. On Icecrown right now ALL 50 top teams are alli. And all 50 teams in 2s are human/human, or human/other 4 races. Every team has at least one human. Most are double human. And in BGS, the alliance side is usually also around 80% - 90% humans. You can't tell me that's not significant. The only ppl that don't run human on alliance side are those that cannot due to class requirements. The human racial coupled with the best two pve trinkets gives humans an insane burst damage advantage (and healing advantage) that quite often spells the difference between winning and losing. Ten races and how many of the other 4 races do you see in any pvp venue? Other than a few druids, hunters, and shamans, none.

Otherwise, what you're saying is true. The fact that the racial IS so damned OP causes ppl to congregate on the alli side, which further exacerbates an already bad situation. Elite players will almost always min/max, and then everyone else takes the path of least resistance or follows their friends to that faction. There are about a dozen REALLY good and heavily populated pvp guilds on alliance. This makes it easier to form premades, and find good players virtually any time of day. I hate to admit it, but there isn't a single pvp guild on Horde side that is as good (or anywhere near as large as) the top five alli pvp guilds. My guild is very talented, but there just aren't enough of us. Many times of the day when I log in, I'm the only one on. I only stay Horde because I personally cannot stomach playing alliance. I know I SHOULD. I just can't force myself to. I've watched over and over again as seriously talented players do well on horde side, and then one day you see them on alliance, and all you can do is sigh.

It's BROKEN. There's no other term for it. MM changed virtually nothing for us on horde side, 90% of the time in BGs. It changed absolutely ZERO in arenas and world pvp. It only helped alleviate the Q problem on alli side. I can count on one hand the number of times an alli MM was a major deciding factor in whether we won or lost a BG since MM was implemented. And I hate to say it, but it is my firm belief that the reason Warmane has so strongly resisted the aforementioned reasonable solutions is because they make too much money selling double trinkets to everyone. It's a money thing, like all too many things are in this world. I had planned on quitting Warmane when Classic came out, but none of my friends would go there, so it just wasn't any fun. I still have fun playing Warmane, but usually only when my guildmates are on so I don't have to solo Q and get butchered by three SM ret pallys and warriors.

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Originally Posted by Meowto

The racial doesnt matter, what matters is where the pvp players are. If horde racials are slightly better people will play on horde, this will by itself create a pull for people to go horde (more people = easier to find people to play with). Take retail, everyone played horde on TBC for pvp because the racials where better, and people stuck to horde all the way up to wod (for the US, EU switched sooner) even though humans were clearly better then the rest. But because players were on the Horde side people played horde.

If you nerf the human racial/balance it people will eventually simply swap to whatever race is instead the best race for pvp, which in turn will create a new faction unbalance if it happens to be a horde racial. Again, look at when they finally nerfed emfh in legion, everyone went horde for pvp becase of the racials. The minmaxers/"pros" go first, the rest follows.


This is especially true to warmane since faction changes are basicely free.


There will always be a best racial.

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Well, a while ago when TBC was still a thing I was counting the horde/alliance representation of the top 50 teams of Outlands 2s bracket.
Surprisingly it was exactly 25 horde and 25 alliance teams.
It seems like w/o emfh there is race diversity in the competitive play.
The thing is that the value of racials is situational in TBC. UD for example is considered one of the best but when there is no opponent with fear the race becomes almost useless. Dwarf is good against rogs but useless when opponents have no poison. Human is good against stealthies. Gnome is good against roots. And so on. All racials follow the philosophy to shine in certain situation.
That's the actual issue with Emfh. Different to other racials Emfh isn't situational. The double PvE trinkets give a flat out dmg increase and that outscales the other racials in any situation. That's what makes it so OP.