What do you think it the most OP PVP class on Warmane?

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Originally Posted by mier

Well, a while ago when TBC was still a thing I was counting the horde/alliance representation of the top 50 teams of Outlands 2s bracket.
Surprisingly it was exactly 25 horde and 25 alliance teams.
It seems like w/o emfh there is race diversity in the competitive play.
The thing is that the value of racials is situational in TBC. UD for example is considered one of the best but when there is no opponent with fear the race becomes almost useless. Same story with Dwarf. Awesome against rogs, useless when opponents have no poison.

Emfh is here the exception. Different to other racials it doesn't follow the philosophy of beeing situational. The double PvE trinkets give a flat out dmg increase and that outscales the other racials in any situation.

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Because the server was still "young", once a server gets stable and stays as is the pvp population will eventually settle for one side. There is a best racial for everything, so people will play as that.

Take the 2v2 ladder on woltk atm, every single hunter in the top 50 is a nightelf. Meld>other racials, thus every serious hunter is a nelf. Its going to be the same after the dust settles. People minmax.


And lets be real, race diversity is totally meaningless, faction imbalance is somewhat of a problem but who cares if every single alliance character is of a single race.



I dont get why people keep complaining about the racials, warmane would never change it, most people dont want it to change. Its a massive change that wouldnt really affect gameplay. One faction will always have a lot less pvpers, especially on a "small" (compared to retail) community like warmane woltk. If they were to fix stuff theres way more important and gameplay changing stuff that deserves much more attention, sacred cleansing for example.

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Originally Posted by Meowto

Because the server was still "young", once a server gets stable and stays as is the pvp population will eventually settle for one side. There is a best racial for everything, so people will play as that.

Take the 2v2 ladder on woltk atm, every single hunter in the top 50 is a nightelf. Meld>other racials, thus every serious hunter is a nelf. Its going to be the same after the dust settles. People minmax.


And lets be real, race diversity is totally meaningless, faction imbalance is somewhat of a problem but who cares if every single alliance character is of a single race.

I dont get why people keep complaining about the racials, warmane would never change it, most people dont want it to change. Its a massive change that wouldnt really affect gameplay. One faction will always have a lot less pvpers, especially on a "small" (compared to retail) community like warmane woltk. If they were to fix stuff theres way more important and gameplay changing stuff that deserves much more attention, sacred cleansing for example.

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The level of denial on this thread is positively hilarious. So sacred cleansing is more of a problem than 50 out of 50 teams in 2s being one faction? It's a "massive change" that shouldn't be allowed, but at the same time, forcing Horde players to play BGs with the enemy is just fine.? Wow. Just hilarious. I can't even...

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Originally Posted by Meowto

Because the server was still "young", once a server gets stable and stays as is the pvp population will eventually settle for one side. There is a best racial for everything, so people will play as that.

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Outland was already 2 years old. The top 50 were all BiS geared. Players were min-maxing.
As I said, there just is no best racial in TBC. It's completly situational.

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Originally Posted by AncientRiver

The level of denial on this thread is positively hilarious. So sacred cleansing is more of a problem than 50 out of 50 teams in 2s being one faction? It's a "massive change" that shouldn't be allowed, but at the same time, forcing Horde players to play BGs with the enemy is just fine.? Wow. Just hilarious. I can't even...

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IMO yes sacred cleansing is more of a problem than 50 out of 50 teams in 2s of the same faction.
But the idea to put socket on pvp trinket is dangerous and not really well thought. Just for an idea do you really think that Nelf hunter needs a buff ? Seriously ?
And nerfing human racial won't change anything, cause most of the best racial are alliance in wotlk (maybe lock would change for undead) : nelf, gnome for cac if human isn't available, even draenei is better than most horde racial. It's a fact that in WoTLK horde is well more suited for pve (orc and troll racials) with three racials pvp (two of them who are really okay-grade), while alliance is mostly pvp racials (like all of them, even dwarf the worst can be useful) and none really for pve (the active). So it's a double edge, most of the time competitive pve guilde will be h² and pvp top players will be ally

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Originally Posted by Meowto

Because the server was still "young", once a server gets stable and stays as is the pvp population will eventually settle for one side. There is a best racial for everything, so people will play as that.

Take the 2v2 ladder on woltk atm, every single hunter in the top 50 is a nightelf. Meld>other racials, thus every serious hunter is a nelf. Its going to be the same after the dust settles. People minmax.


And lets be real, race diversity is totally meaningless, faction imbalance is somewhat of a problem but who cares if every single alliance character is of a single race.



I dont get why people keep complaining about the racials, warmane would never change it, most people dont want it to change. Its a massive change that wouldnt really affect gameplay. One faction will always have a lot less pvpers, especially on a "small" (compared to retail) community like warmane woltk. If they were to fix stuff theres way more important and gameplay changing stuff that deserves much more attention, sacred cleansing for example.

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And that is like uhm, your personal opinion. It may be meaningless to you but not for others.

Having more balanced and competitive races spread between the two factions would be way more funny, refreshing and interesting and would actually feel like wow, instead of having and army of everyone and their grandma playing human. Not to mention the huge benefit that faction balance would gain.

Given the possibility, a lot of human players would rather playing an undead warlock, or a dwarf warrior, or a gnome mage, or a belf pala, but they are somewhat forced to stay human because everything else is just suboptimal and **** in comparison.

You can argue that some non-human racials are better than others, but for sure by a little margin, is a nelf hunter a better choice than an orc hunter? Maybe, maybe not, it's situational. The only one which is not situational and 10 miles ahead of anything else is EMFH.

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Originally Posted by Krak

IMO yes sacred cleansing is more of a problem than 50 out of 50 teams in 2s of the same faction.
But the idea to put socket on pvp trinket is dangerous and not really well thought. Just for an idea do you really think that Nelf hunter needs a buff ? Seriously ?
And nerfing human racial won't change anything, cause most of the best racial are alliance in wotlk (maybe lock would change for undead) : nelf, gnome for cac if human isn't available, even draenei is better than most horde racial. It's a fact that in WoTLK horde is well more suited for pve (orc and troll racials) with three racials pvp (two of them who are really okay-grade), while alliance is mostly pvp racials (like all of them, even dwarf the worst can be useful) and none really for pve (the active). So it's a double edge, most of the time competitive pve guilde will be h² and pvp top players will be ally

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I honestly don't know what to say to someone who thinks one spell in one class is more broken than a racial that has completely destroyed any semblance of balance of the server. Like I said, it's just pure denial. They LITERALLY had to create this abomination of MM to offset it (only partially and very poorly I might add). It's easy to ignore it when you're the one benefiting from it. 50 out of 50, and you're just perrrefectly ok with that? I can't even imagine the thought process that manufactures such delusion. Nerfing the human racial would change EVERYTHING. That's point. It's so very far out of whack with the other nine races that it creates a chain reaction that we've been over numerous times. I shouldn't need to explain it again. I guarantee everyone in this thread defending the human racial is playing a human and simply doesn't want to play on a level playing field. They don't want to give up their advantage. And Warmane doesn't want to give up the income, so it just stays broken. They defend this absurdity because they are the beneficiaries of it. Human nature on display in the gaming world.

I don't play human on my main or most of my rerolls so I don't know what you mean by "one benefiting from it". Well I didn't say that racial human was fair, but like I said alliance racials are better anyway than horde so ... in wotlk pvp players would play ally anyway and pve players would rather play horde.


Ps : And I must add that warpal is so strong in tlk meta cause of sacred cleansing (30% rng to win a game ? Seems good, one pvp server didn't have sacred cleansing working in 284 meta and guess what ? Hpal/war wasn't as strong or as dominating). So yes one talent is more broken than one racial in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Krak

I don't play human on my main or most of my rerolls so I don't know what you mean by "one benefiting from it". Well I didn't say that racial human was fair, but like I said alliance racials are better anyway than horde so ... in wotlk pvp players would play ally anyway and pve players would rather play horde.

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No. A lot of horde racials would be a very good choice if EMFH wasn't around.

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Originally Posted by Krak

I don't play human on my main or most of my rerolls so I don't know what you mean by "one benefiting from it". Well I didn't say that racial human was fair, but like I said alliance racials are better anyway than horde so ... in wotlk pvp players would play ally anyway and pve players would rather play horde.


Ps : And I must add that warpal is so strong in tlk meta cause of sacred cleansing (30% rng to win a game ? Seems good, one pvp server didn't have sacred cleansing working in 284 meta and guess what ? Hpal/war wasn't as strong or as dominating). So yes one talent is more broken than one racial in my opinion.

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So if sacred cleansing is so broken, why do you not see ONE horde war/pall team in the top 50??? If your point was valid, there would be at least SOME horde warr/pall teams that were able to overcome the human racial of other comps. But no. There are zero. This shows which aspect is more broken very dramatically.

In the top 50 2s teams on Icecrown, 19 teams are warr/pall and 31 teams are other comps. But every single team has at least one human and 70% are human/human. So please, don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that SC is more broken than EMFH. The numbers don't lie, and the numbers argue my point precisely.

It's called optimization. Sacred cleansing is broken AND Human racial is better. So why should someone playing palwar only for pvp choose anything else than the best option for the win. And yes 284 meta push the human racial even further (on old AT you could see some gnome war/healer comp like Zage in the top or some disc/gnome war) cause double 284 trinket is way better than double 264.
I'm just saying that the racial is very strong but you can always play some comp without it. And if you are good go on top playing the racial you want. It's just less opti (But you can"t play warpal without sacred cleansing, that's what I mean by broken, and it litteraly makes you win.). But if you read me, I did say on wotlk human racial is the best racial there is. I'm just saying mostly that even nerfing human racial won't change most of the shift alliance-horde (cause in this xpac ally race are leaning towards pvp, and horde towards pve)
Even more when the solution is as fcked up as "put socket on trinket resil". I mean if you want to buff me I won't say no, but it's a little stupid.

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Originally Posted by Krak

It's called optimization. Sacred cleansing is broken AND Human racial is better. So why should someone playing palwar only for pvp choose anything else than the best option for the win. And yes 284 meta push the human racial even further (on old AT you could see some gnome war/healer comp like Zage in the top or some disc/gnome war) cause double 284 trinket is way better than double 264.
I'm just saying that the racial is very strong but you can always play some comp without it. And if you are good go on top playing the racial you want. It's just less opti (But you can"t play warpal without sacred cleansing, that's what I mean by broken, and it litteraly makes you win.). But if you read me, I did say on wotlk human racial is the best racial there is. I'm just saying mostly that even nerfing human racial won't change most of the shift alliance-horde (cause in this xpac ally race are leaning towards pvp, and horde towards pve)
Even more when the solution is as fcked up as "put socket on trinket resil". I mean if you want to buff me I won't say no, but it's a little stupid.

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There ARE other solutions than the sockets. That was just one solution that was offered. MM is ridiculous. It's the dumbest "solution" they could've come up with. It helped alliance with their Q problem and made things even worse for horde. Also, it did NOTHING to alter the imbalance in arenas and world pvp. All I've been saying all along is that a balanced server is a healthier server. I would be willing to bet the money they lose selling trinkets would be offset by fewer players leaving the server because it's so imbalanced.

With the current Warmane policy this is not going to happen, the current state of races has been like this for good amount of years already, people really should got used to it by now. Also if they would really change it indeed, there would be even more people demanding all other changes, let's say why not to adjust aliance racials for PvE enviroment so it can match the potential of horde racials in PvE aspect of game ??? AFTER ALL I WANT THE FAIR ENVIROMENT HERE BECAUSE I CANNOT FOLLOW THE CURRENT META WHICH HAS BEEN HERE FOR ****TONS OF YEARS NOW.

People will always follow the current best meta there is in competitive enviroment, and trust me, people in top50 are as competitive as they can get. Do you want to stay with your mates on horde enjoying the game ? Or do you want to get onto high mmr and enjoy the 284 meta of PvP on warmane ?(Which is cancer LUL) Seriously, if you think you can get to 2.5ish then just switch to ally, but if you want to just play arenas for the sake of arena points and gear, and still being able to have a fun with your friends, then there is your horde.

I'm not defending the current PvP situation on Warmane, because frankly I think it's just nasty as ****, especially with the current WP situation where majority of warriors on Blackrock is pummeling targets on 10yards, disarming targets on 10yards etc.. That's the REAL and current issue there is and that should be dealt with, not some racials, which has been here for whole expansion.

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Originally Posted by AncientRiver

So if sacred cleansing is so broken, why do you not see ONE horde war/pall team in the top 50??? If your point was valid, there would be at least SOME horde warr/pall teams that were able to overcome the human racial of other comps. But no. There are zero. This shows which aspect is more broken very dramatically.

In the top 50 2s teams on Icecrown, 19 teams are warr/pall and 31 teams are other comps. But every single team has at least one human and 70% are human/human. So please, don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that SC is more broken than EMFH. The numbers don't lie, and the numbers argue my point precisely.

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The one thing has nothing to do with the other, the human racial is the best dps racial so every dps character that can be is human. And because everyone that can be human is human everyone that wants to play pvp has to be alliance. That just how it is. And emfh ****s the faction balance, which is fairly meaningless for arenas.

However, sacred cleansing is actively broken and ****s arenas which makes it a far bigger problem for serious pvp i.e arenas. (sure, for bgs faction balance is more important, but bgs are only there for honor/HK farming anways so vOv).

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Originally Posted by Meowto

(sure, for bgs faction balance is more important, but bgs are only there for honor/HK farming anways so vOv).

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Gee, I kinda like doing BGs. It's mostly what I do in the game. So do a **** ton of other players. It's a social part of a social game. Sorry I'm not elite enough (like you are, I presume) to be in top 1% in arenas. You obviously have no concept of how BGs work if you think all they are for is farming hk. Performing the objectives and winning are kinda fun too, ya know? As are playing with my guildmates and friends. As is performing my role well and healing my *** off so my teammates don't die. As is confounding the opposing faction by outwitting them and surviving being focused all the time. It takes effort and has rewards. I get enjoyment from that. Sue me. Why the **** to I bother talking to delusionals?

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Originally Posted by AncientRiver

Gee, I kinda like doing BGs. It's mostly what I do in the game. So do a **** ton of other players. It's a social part of a social game. Sorry I'm not elite enough (like you are, I presume) to be in top 1% in arenas. You obviously have no concept of how BGs work if you think all they are for is farming hk. Performing the objectives and winning are kinda fun too, ya know? As are playing with my guildmates and friends. As is performing my role well and healing my *** off so my teammates don't die. As is confounding the opposing faction by outwitting them and surviving being focused all the time. It takes effort and has rewards. I get enjoyment from that. Sue me. Why the **** to I bother talking to delusionals?

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I like dungeons, its a social part of a social game. Sorry I'm not elite enough (like you might be) to be in top1% of raiders... .


You get what i mean, its fairly clearly intended by blizzard (and generally accepted) that for pvp the endgame is arenas, not random bgs. Similar how raids are the endgame for pve.

And for arenas imo sacred cleansing is way more broken then the human racial.


Whenever i play BGs i get instant queues and if its not with or against a premade its usually a decent BG, however war/pal clearly is the best comp in the game and sacred cleansing plays a big and very annoying part in that. Losing because a crucial spell resisted because of that talent is just stupid (and since its a 30% chance it happens to like every third one).