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Thx for the guide.
Im only wondering about ur trinket choice.
I dont think that using only auto attack on a dummy is a valid test to find the BiS trinkets because u do only physical dmg.
Arp from STS and DBW will boost ur physica dmg and therefore auto attack but ur spells wont benefit from it.
Lava Lash is not at all bugged, it is intended to be used as a filler on wotlk, unlike in cataclysm. Same as there is nothing bugged with flametongue weapon. Windfury on off-hand is what's bugged (in a beneficial way) making it better than flametongue. There is a bug with Spirit Wolves however, they do not scale with caster's stats, so some choose to skip it in favor of Call of Thunder.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
There is no such thing as a hard cap for melee attacks, what are you even going on about? Every point of haste from 1 to infinity will increase your attack speed by the same percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
As above, there is no hard cap on haste, so potion of speed will always have a greater effect than Wild Magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
Dummies are no longer bugged, so you should re-do all of the videos, especially the ones concerning trinket choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
Additionally, you should mention addons, in particular Power Auras, as it really helps keep track maelstrom stacks. Lastly, as you seem to have all of the gear you list as BiS, a video of your performance on some boss would also be nice.
No, there is no GCD for autoattacks, they are on separate timer. (What would ferals/assasination rogues do if there was?)Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
You might refer to windfury weapon ICD?
About trinket test:
DBW will always do best burst on anyone. Since it has 30s proc duration. My question is whether it would be as good at longer fights (it has lower uptime than other trinkets). Also if you have sts + wfs both of your trinkets are going to be always procced at the same time, maybe using shamanistic rage/second pot when this occurs would provide addditional dps.
I would be interrested in full gear/buffs/rotation test (since stats are influencing each other significantly + diminishing returns comes in play as well), with longer duration (3 min).
The CD of WF is 3 seconds and shared between both hands. And regardless of your attack speed you will never reach the point of consistently triggering it just as it comes off CDs due to the low proc chance.
The windfury cooldown on Molten is the same as on retail, I have tested it and encourage you to do the same. The reason as to why and how it (WF) is superior to flametongue on off-hand can be found on the bugtracker.
I would also advise you to learn the difference between constructive criticism and ad hominem. If you post a guide expected it to be questioned.
Sooooo, i have 70% melee haste(with wf totem up, 50% without) should i keep going for haste?
I am playing a level 70 twink shaman so afaik 1 point of haste scales way better at 70 than it would scale at 80.
Do you think i should get black magic on offhand and berserking on main hand?
Is there a point where 2 points of AP become better than 1 point of haste?
Also, my crit is quite low :( i have 35% crit with the elemental talent proc and totems, self buffed.
I'm not sure if this is any use, but self buffed i reach about 4k attack power with all procs, again LEVEL 70.
Everyone told me i overdid haste bla bla, but i personally think i should keep going, now, i don't like to do everything by myself without asking others, so I'm asking you haste or attack power?(i have like 4 or 5 free gem slots, everything else is haste).
Thanks!
-Tbc.
I lost it when you started to talk about 80 gear when I said twice Im playing at 70, I'm waiting Abra to reply, he seems to have more experience(no disrespect).Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
Same rules should apply, its not really that different beside t10 bonues, w/e.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
As an enhancement shaman who has done a lot of 25hc raiding, I very much disagree with your trinket choices. I'm currently using the combination of Herkmul War Token & Tiny Abomination in a Jar heroic. I've tested out Heroic WFS and DBW as well. DBW is a significant dps loss compared to HWT and WFS. Despite arp contributing to dps, STS is really the only arp trinket worth using on enhance - due to the proc being obscene. Especially given that you have a better chance of proccing an extra STS/WFS proc during a fight due to the ICD timers.
TAJ is actually a very nice trinket on enhancement, and is often disregarded/overlooked due to its lack of a passive-boost. Besides the fact that it eliminates any need to gem hit, the trinket procs an incredible amount of times. Stormstrike stacks 4 stacks of Manifest Anger and with your autoattack speed being so high you pretty much get a manifest explosion every 4-5 seconds. On dbs today, my shaman did 200K damage with TAJ.
I used to be a nonbeliever of the jar, but then I got it. For me the Bis combinations in order from Best to worst:
TAJ+STS
TAJ+HWT
TAJ+WFS
TAJ+DV
TAJ+DBW
I'm unsure how else to tell you this again, so here is a 5 minute test I have just done.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
Spoiler:Show
- Two 1.3 speed daggers, double windfury
- Over 800 haste
- Windfury totem and Heroism, while keeping up 5 stacks of relic proc
The duration is listed as 5 minutes and 9 seconds, but I've stopped attacking at exactly 5 minutes.
With 777 attacks, that is an average of a hit every 0.39 of a second. Over that period there were only 156/2= 78 procs, so even with this kind of attack speed I am unable to get WF to proc every 3 seconds (which would have been 100). This is how WF has been working on Molten since at least 2011, most likely even earlier than that.
There is no way I can show you that there was at least 3 seconds between each proc besides asking you to re-test it yourself.
Again, I am not denying that there is an issue with windfury, but it does not have to do with its cooldown.
Looking forward to seeing it, there are very few fully geared enhancement shamans on molten, so I am very interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
Assuming this is for PvE, I would suggest haste as the higher scaling at lower levels makes it a much better stat for all physical dps, this would also make black magic superior to berserking in my opinion. At level 80 there is a balance between haste and AP, but I don't think there is such a point at lower levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbcwascool
I wouldn't worry about crit, as the spec does not really rely on it.
I'll be honest, my TBC experience was largely with rogues and druids, and I do not know much about the play-style of shamans from back then, but since you are playing on wotlk expansion with wotlk talents and spells, that shouldn't really matter. The TBC tier bonuses do not actually look significant enough to sway it in favor of either AP or haste.
I think u dont get my point.
I was talking about the passive arp from DBW and STS. When u use only auto attack (physcial dmg) on a dummy u will benefit more from arp like when u use a rotation that includes spells.
After all ur trinket testing in the video is not a very good way to find the BiS trinket.
To make a valid trinket test on a dummy u should keep a few things in mind:
- Trinkets have different internal cds. For example the DBW proc last very long (30 sec) but has also a very long internal cd (90 sec). When u compare it with a other trinket, for exmaple DV/DC last only 15 seconds but has also only 45 sec icd. U need to attack the dummy for a very long time to take the internal cd into account.
- The more attack power u have the more u will benefit from haste. When u are naked and use Herkuml War Token it gonna be less beneficial.
- "Tiny Abomination in a Jar" is a gear dependent trinket. It grants u a extra attack. When u attack the dummy naked this extra attack will hit much lower like when u attack the dummy with ur whole gear equiped.
After all u should attack the dummy for a much longer time and u should equip ur whole gear and use ur normal rotation to test ur trinkets.
Also keep in mind that in icc u are fully buffed and have the icc aura and this will also affect ur trinkets and
especially the dmg of the extra attack of "Tiny Abomination in a Jar"
Through Attack power with Mental Quickness talent like u said already.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILECDW
When u make a dummy test with auto attack u wont take the additional spellpower into account.
Using only physical attacks gives u wrong results.
For example I could claim that arp is better than attack power and to prove it I stack arp to 100% and attack the dummy and will probably do more auto attack dmg like when i stack ap.
Pretty much the same applys to ur DBW and STS trinket.
But anyway, u removed this part of the guide so in the end u agree and its pointless to argue about it anymore...
Hey guys, enjoying the discussion here. Thought I'd add my thoughts on your guide :)
-Firstly I don't agree with excluding lava lash. Sure its damage is low but it is an ability that can proc windfury and also proc maelstrom weapon. Even with lava lash I often find myself with a moment where I have nothing to manually cast; lava lash is a nice filler.
-Taking feral spirit. With the state it's currently in, it's just not worth taking. A 3min cd for wolves that hit like marshmallows. The movement speed is nice but we're talking dps here.
-Windfury glyph. With the increased attack speed from haste/talents/raid buffs I feel like windfury is always on the internal cooldown and procs almost instantly after the 3 seconds. An extra 2% is going to make little to no difference.
Also here is a macro I use to simplify the rotation a little bit:
#showtooltip
/castsequence Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock
It keeps flame shock on the target while casting earth in-between reapplication of it.
This is how I always thought windfury weapon was bugged on molten:
Spoiler:Show
Overall nice guide, also would be interested in seeing some icc raid dps ;)
#showtooltipQuote:
Originally Posted by WorganFreeman
/castsequence reset=target/18 Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock
This way the castsequence will reset when u switch target or 18 seconds after last key press.