Pvp, how the **** do we beat ****ing warriors?

this is ridicilous, how? what is the trick, i know that "blind on defensives" blah blah blah it barely ****ing works, their fear goes through the Cloak of Shadows their storm bold goes through Evasion......... when you start the duel they just fear you, charge you and by the time you react you are already 300k hp less and falling... vanish is ueless cuz of bleeds they can just stun me with bold when i have evasion.. i trink it they stun me with shockwave it is EXTREMELY hard to defeat warr 1 v 1, i know they are class for mentaly damaged people in 5.4.2 but how do we rogues counter them? specificly im Asssassination today one guy with 406k hp (tyranical) almost ****ing killed me just because i made one mistake!!!! i my self am pretey descent and i know what im doing, if any one knows how to defeat warriors dont ignore this thread all rogues must have these problems. HELL even if you do evrything perfectly you BARELY win a duel with warriors....

Every class against warriors sucks. Except mages and hunters, sometimes rogue. Tested on my friend's warrior. The dmg an arms warrior can put compared to my rogue is ridiculous. Dunno, deal with it or create a warrior. Enjoy getting bored smashing 10 keybinds at max. Thats how Blizzard designed them. I still regret that i came back to mop after moltdown, originally i was on cata. Man, a paladin with gurtha proc bugged back then, couldnt deal the dps that a warrior is doing in mop.

I don't understand The issue, it is hard to kill a warrior since their second wind heals for The full amount as it ignores the pvp fatigue, but you're supposed to have poisons for that.

As for the fear, never had an issue with it, i play undead.

Dunno, maybe you should get better? I've fought a few warriors outside of stealth and kill them without much problem.
What's your spec? Subtlety deals marginally better (in my blind potato opinion) against the tough to kill classes.

There's also the chance that they're just better than you. Ever thought about it?

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Originally Posted by vrcinac

this is ridicilous, how? what is the trick, i know that "blind on defensives" blah blah blah it barely ****ing works, their fear goes through the Cloak of Shadows their storm bold goes through Evasion......... when you start the duel they just fear you, charge you and by the time you react you are already 300k hp less and falling... vanish is ueless cuz of bleeds they can just stun me with bold when i have evasion.. i trink it they stun me with shockwave it is EXTREMELY hard to defeat warr 1 v 1, i know they are class for mentaly damaged people in 5.4.2 but how do we rogues counter them? specificly im Asssassination today one guy with 406k hp (tyranical) almost ****ing killed me just because i made one mistake!!!! i my self am pretey descent and i know what im doing, if any one knows how to defeat warriors dont ignore this thread all rogues must have these problems. HELL even if you do evrything perfectly you BARELY win a duel with warriors....

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This is something i can sorta answer.

First id like to preface this by saying i tried out sub rogue on live during 5.4 and did decently in the week i used it (only made it to like 1700 3s and 1800ish 2s but not bad for a week) but as i always do when i go to a new class, i went and tried to learn as much about it as possible including how to deal with classes in 1v1.

I believe it was mirox who had a guide that explained it by basically saying you have to burst em down by reopening as much as you can using things like shadow step and paralytic posion to keep him off you long enough to let it happen. (trying to save your burst skills like dance for when hes at a lower amount of hp so you can kill him through his regen)

tbh it wouldnt be easy but it can work. (but i rerolled to an aff warlock after a lil bit in arena as i got tired of the rogues lack of sustained dmg or burst outside of dance. so im not going to be the best person in this, just relaying the information i gathered.)

I'm playing a fury warrior, and I don't mash 10 buttons, that's why I can sometimes do a 1v2 in arenas against well geared opponents(talking about 500k paladins and dk's). The key to beating a warrior is to not let him use his abilities, each time you engage a warrior, you have a period of 3 seconds to do what you wanted or die. Because by the time those 3 seconds pass, he will already have raging blow or overpower. The key is to not fight a warrior, it's to just move out of his range and that's all you can do pretty much. They're really easy to be defeated though, I can defeat warriors that are full griveous/tyranical while I still have malevolent and dreadful gear.

You can do it, the thing is you can differentiate between good and bad war easily

here how i counter that class in duel

open on him with shadow dance (at the end of stun lock, disarm him) (Note, This is what i call soft open, the hard open is shadow dance shadow blade macro together)
he usually has around 100k to 175k left (if he dont trink, of course most war dont trink your open tho, but some will so you need to react to that)
after that it is very predicatable, he will fear you. Just eat the fear ( if he bladestorm, you must trink and pop evasion immediately)
then the stormbolt is coming, must trink this one, ( this is his burst), pop combat readiness and spam feint and recup. Also, try to keep slice and dice up
pop evasion and pop shadow blades. he will likley use die by the sword after you deal enough damage. Blind...He will trink, if he didnt trink earlier
vanish( this is most of time i kill him with the small opener from vanish)
cheap ambush=80 energy, evis (macro ambush with premediation)
remember i still have another prep, and my shadow dance is coming up :)
And of course war has 2 more def cd, shieldwall and rally cry, keep this in mind

the thing against war, is to mitigate as much as damage when you stun is in DR.
The crucial counter agasint us is not bladstorm, it is the fking dragon roar. one skill half your hp gone :/

Rogue needs some fixes, they miss a lot, and cloack and evasion ye

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Originally Posted by Ywasafet

I don't understand The issue, it is hard to kill a warrior since their second wind heals for The full amount as it ignores the pvp fatigue, but you're supposed to have poisons for that.

As for the fear, never had an issue with it, i play undead.

Dunno, maybe you should get better? I've fought a few warriors outside of stealth and kill them without much problem.
What's your spec? Subtlety deals marginally better (in my blind potato opinion) against the tough to kill classes.

There's also the chance that they're just better than you. Ever thought about it?

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warriors always fear on begining, if you use will of forsaken on the begining, you have to be one of the worst rogues i have ever seen. and dont wory about me im pretey sure i know what im doing.

also thanks alot to the other people that contributed. and btw im Assasination not sub :P any other "ways" to counter them are welcome

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Originally Posted by vrcinac

also thanks alot to the other people that contributed. and btw im Assasination not sub :P any other "ways" to counter them are welcome

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Vanish, nitro boots.
done. That's the only way if you don't want to get frustrated. You don't want to see a Slam crit ( with CS debuff), that does more dmg than 2 Ambushes together, and the difference is that ambush is either done in subterfuge, either in SD, meanwhile they can spam it mindlessly while charging /stunning ur ***
Rogues lost their uniqueness in MoP imo. A warrior does/brings more than a rogue, except stealth/re-open.

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Originally Posted by Synx7

Vanish, nitro boots.
done. That's the only way if you don't want to get frustrated. You don't want to see a Slam crit ( with CS debuff), that does more dmg than 2 Ambushes together, and the difference is that ambush is either done in subterfuge, either in SD, meanwhile they can spam it mindlessly while charging /stunning ur ***
Rogues lost their uniqueness in MoP imo. A warrior does/brings more than a rogue, except stealth/re-open.

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well vanish and nitro boots are not of much use tbh :/ i have to open and put the dots up, by the time my subterfurge ends he fears me, charges me, stuns me and no matter how fast i react im already down to 200k hp...

It would be helpful to know what your talents are. I play assassination and I think it's the best spec vs warriors because of all the unmitigated damage you get on them. Also, are we talking about arenas or BG's here? The strategy is different for each of them. All in all, warriors are our toughest opponents, but they're not unbeatable. Trust me, I understand your frustration but I tend to win 1v1's with them more than I lose. Once I know your talents, I'll help you as best I can.

Also, what's your ilvl?

im 522, also i got a hand of it. i beat almost all warriors now, i just had to get used to it, now i can beat them thanks for your help guys. the key factor that helped me was that i replaced Shuriken Toss with Marked for Death and i got the proc trinket, i open put bleeds up and as soon as i get Slince and Dice up i use marked for death to kidney them and use burst, if they trink re stealth open again and win, if they dont trink they are dead. works like a charm

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Originally Posted by vrcinac

im 522, also i got a hand of it. i beat almost all warriors now, i just had to get used to it, now i can beat them thanks for your help guys. the key factor that helped me was that i replaced Shuriken Toss with Marked for Death and i got the proc trinket, i open put bleeds up and as soon as i get Slince and Dice up i use marked for death to kidney them and use burst, if they trink re stealth open again and win, if they dont trink they are dead. works like a charm

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You've just met some bad warriors .

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Originally Posted by Synx7

Every class against warriors sucks. Except mages and hunters, sometimes rogue. Tested on my friend's warrior. The dmg an arms warrior can put compared to my rogue is ridiculous. Dunno, deal with it or create a warrior. Enjoy getting bored smashing 10 keybinds at max. Thats how Blizzard designed them. I still regret that i came back to mop after moltdown, originally i was on cata. Man, a paladin with gurtha proc bugged back then, couldnt deal the dps that a warrior is doing in mop.

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this is so stereotypical, smash 10 keybinds? c'mon be serious step on up your game stop with this old clichés..10 keybinds..hhh