WotLK - Raid compositions: The rogue, feral cat hate (Serious topic)

Ola,

Please read everything before replying and mods please keep this thread off trash/troll/flame posts

I've been playing here on this server for a year and I'm getting frustrated by the same thing as I did on my prev server, aka why the hell are raid groups in the "hardcore" guilds like Aurora, TFK etc.. 25/75(melee/ranged) ratio with 0-1 feral cats and/or max 1 rogue?

So far I've got some answers like:
- Rogues/feral cats bring nothing useful to a raid and take spots for those who bring usefull **** to raid
- Rogues/feral cats do low dmg aka "can't carry"
- More melee tends to pressure healers to much aka we take more dmg
- Rogue/feral cat is useless/garbage/trash
- Rogue/feral cat players are bad as fuk(they can't play their class in PvE)

I've been played rogue on retail since vanilla till the release of Trial of the Crusader and in what ever 25 raid I was there it was always a close 50/50% dps/rdps ratio with rogues and kittys being the most wanted class, even in ICC since I did maintain contact with my friends + yt vids ofc.

But here on Warmane It's simply unrealistically damn hard to get into a raid with my rogue let's not even talk about players who'd like to go feral cat... and I'm not a **** one even tho I started to think that I am. The more ranged part is understandable at LoD but even here I mean c'mon..? 4 hunts, 3 spriest etc.. just to abuse the hell outa the transition phase cuz apparently a 15 min enrage timer with 30% dmg buff is not enuf.

From my point of view as I see it, either u pick a rdps to get an insta raidd invite or u may asslick the hellouta of an officer for a mdps invite or possibly even start bribing them to get a rogue or feral cat inside.

Now for the answers that I've gotten so far.

Rogues and ferals ain't useless!! Yes it's true they're pure DPS classes but they do their job just fine it worked on retail it can work here. Rogues giefs you 4% dmg increase in combat spec + an aggro + dmg increase spell every 30 sec aka TotT and yes WE CAN TOTT THE DAMN TANK at beginning it's not just hunters who can do that. If ya telling me that getting free dmg and aggro for 6 sec(10 with glyph) is useless then I'm sorry but I can't comprehend your thinking. And yes you can get every buff in the raid even with rogues and feral cats.

Rogues and ferals can't carry. Man I've heard this so many times and it sickens me. You have a 30% buff in ICC, 70% of the raid is BiS in LoD/RS raids and I'm told that ~18k+ is not enuff? Yes rogues do ~20% less dmg than they're supposed to but feral cats work as far as I know just fine and they stomp recounts. With 30% buff even frost mages would work as you need on average ~12k dps for LoD.

Melees tend to pressure healers and are dying a lot more than ranged. Please.. really? I can play my hunt and stand in marrowgar's flame just as much as I do on my rogue, the only exception is sindragosa and bpc and even here with 10% brain usage u can't take more dmg than a ranged dps does. No you don't need 3 spriests to keep up with the healing that's just BS, if a 50/50 dps/rdps ratio worked on retail LoD with 5 healers it can work here as well where it's even easier due to 30% buff and half the stuff being broken.

Rogues and ferals're trash and players're terrible with them on top of it. Yes I know 1 outa 400 rogues/cats is decent here but hey how the fk are they supposed to learn how to play them when they can't get their favorite class in the raid? Those guys who're good surely can take few mins to tell them how to get good. Yes I also know you need gear to be useful but so does every other class right? Even if ya ain't BiS u can do more dps than most of the classes with the same ilvl/gs.

So for all the officers and other high ranked members in guilds. Please tell me why rogues/ferals are not in raids, why you must run the 25/75 ratio raid comps. If it's for nothing else than abusing the LK fight or because you've seen terribad players or got random hate toward melee and are just denying players to play a melee class for other random reasons please tell me.

I just want to play like I did on retail with 2-3 rogues/cats/dks per raid w/o having to *** lick someone + to let us melees actually play the class we like instead of being forced to be a hunter/mage or gtfo from the guild/raid. And as a rogue myself bringing some yellow color + kittys in the raid is awsm.



Thank you for reading. If you're an officer/gm of an guild and will change the private server/guild mentality of 25/75 ratio raid comps to ~50/50 I salute you.

tl;dr if this worked on retail http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000(Paragons world 1st 25hc LK kill) why can't it work here and only this or close to this must be http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000



p.s If I offended some1 in some way I kinda don't care :).
p.p.s sorry for mah grammar skills

Rogues were bugged to hell and beyond until recently, so it`s mostly a relic from those archaic times, which also left with none of the well decent players playing a Rogue. As a matter of fact, Assa Rogues are still bugged to hell and back. TL;DR Rogue players left Molten a long time ago because they were **** until recently.

As for Ferals, they don`t really bring anything to the raid (besides the 30% bleed buff and ****ty offheals), plus being a rather hard-to-play class thats further suffering from certain Moltenfeatures (PP). So, yeah.

Well ferals bring same 5% crit u get off a warrior Selaya. and since other warrior buffs are replaced by Gbom / Imp ... means Warriors are not viable inraids? every BUFF has usually 2 classes that can supply it. so think. rogues boost tanks threat, damage of melee's, support some CC etc etc. with a burst of AoE if needed. so they are just as viable as any class. ferals give 5% crits, bleeds, VATE / CMB RESS. so... GG sir.

using those inraids isnt an insta wipe.

/cheerz

I was talking about unique buffs.

Like I said yea rogues still do ~20% less DPS than they're supposed to. But newbish rogues can still be taught how to play same goes for feral cats. But one can't learn how to play it if he can't be in the raid and see the difference between him and the guy that actually knows how to play it right? The feral bleed buff is awsm for rogues as u can go rupture rotation safely and not depend so much on rng for eviscerate crits. PP is a tank and spank fight anyway so I don't see the problem not bein able to dps properly on 1 boss. Retail comps had no probs with ferals in raid groups so why is it a problem here if it doesn't bring anything besides the bleed buff?

But still u can't play a rogue or feral either when raid groups're dps ratio 25% mdps and 75% rdps and that's the thing that bothers me the most ;_;

I'd like to see some replies from guys like Leulz and Shashank aka the guild bosses

< Not a guild boss, but core in <Encore> / <Solace> from pre-wipe. We haven't really had this issue (most of our raids have had at least 1 feral/rogue) since they actually do boost melee dmg. But that doesn't answer your question, so here goes nothing:

The way I see it, and probably most other people is not that the DPS of a feral/rogue is bad (I've seen some very good and consisntant performances by rogues/ferals) but rather there are classes, such as a priest that brings a lot of buffs, along with passive healing, +3% hit, replenishment, mediocre dps (compared to say a warrior), can soak on LK (and soak quite a bit and frequently enough), can also off-heal if need be, also brings Divine hymp and Hymp of Hope, the latter being a greatly admired mana regen tool.

The other ranged classes are also good, boomkin will generally be preferred over a feral, for example, because +3% hit, +13% magical dmg increase (on a target), bress (feral has one too yes I AM aware), a stronger innervate, typhoon (this is a very important spell as I'm sure you know).

And since a warrior provides same buff that feral does (+5% crit, no bleeds tho [which affect only a handful of classes]) and does more dmg than a feral, chances are a war would be more favoured from melees.
A paladin will be more favoured cuz it's just an incredible utility class with high damage capabilities.
Dks, in general, will be taken due to their ability to soak a LOT on LK and the fact that they also provide some specific buffs and some can outdps a feral (I've done it and I'm sure I'm not the only one, a good feral mind you).
At least 1 mage will always be taken cuz of a class specific buff + very high damage.
A wlock will always be taken due to SP buff + mediocre to very high damage.
Hunters will always be taken cuz utility + currently higher than their usual, but still pretty high damage.

TL:DR
The point I'm trying to make is the following:
Other classes are taken due to same/~the same damage capabilities but with more utility while still maintaining the same buffs provided by a feral. A combat rogue, at least in my opinion, will be more favoured than a feral, because they and Awars are the only specs on their respective classes that provide +4% phys damage. And with Awars being well pretty sub-par compared to fury, the choice is clear.

Yeah I know but you don't have to bring 3-4 spriest and 2-3 boomkins their typhoon wasn't supposed to hit the vile spirits either way as they're in air but yeah it's a private server where things that can be abused're abused the hell outa it... The lock can use CoE for the 13% dmg increase as well. So you do get the same needed buffs w/o the need to have 14 rdps right? Paragon did LoD with more mdps than rdps and they had zero trouble with mana or buffs even w/o the buff same for Halion. I don't mind if it's more retris or dks but at least I'd like to have 2 rogues and 1 cat for the tott trade and bleed buff for rupture.

What I am actually asking is why not ~50/50 rdps mdps ratio, cuz that's the main reason we rogues and cats're let outa the raids... I just dun see the point of having 4 hunts and spriests in every raid. Yea I know it's easier but where's the challenge then?

First of all, you can't even begin to equate Warmane "top" guilds with retail ones. Especially when those "top" guilds are a selectively hand-picked sample from one server. Using the class favoritism of those guilds as a reflection of what classes do and do not perform well would be ill-advised. Did you know <Royal Bloodline> on Deathwing pretty much basically never runs without at least 1 Feral DPS among the melee? Did you know that those Ferals often beat the other melee in DPS, despite those melees being some of the best players on the server, because those Feral players know their class inside-out? If those guilds you mentioned are going out of their way to avoid bringing Feral druids, then they're simply awful.

Feral druids bring the following:
- 30% increased bleed damage (this alone should make them mandatory if you're looking to maximize raid DPS at all, unless there's a bear tank)
- Improved Leader of the Pack healing
- Innervates
- Brez (especially useful in 3.3.5 where there's no cap on the amount of targets per encounter you can brez)
- Probably the best mobility in the game
- Excellent personal DPS if the player is good
- Amazing utility in the form of Bear Form + taunt in a sticky situation. You're automatically def-capped and Bear Form's innate armor bonuses means even heroic LK doesn't one-shot you. Then you also have defensive CD's to improve your tankiness until a tank is brezzed.

They are, however, one of the hardest specs in the game to master and perform well on.

I should also point out that Molten bugs (specifically Defile, because of how quickly it not only spreads, but is also casted a bit sooner than it should be, giving its target less time to distance himself from the raid), severely favor RDPS on LoD. Most guilds favoring RDPS on this encounter is just an adaptation to how defile works currently. A legitimate strategy that involved killing Valkyrs every time would also tend to heavily favor cleaving classes - and that's an area where MDPS tend to heavily outshine RDPS.

Also, combat rogues aren't doing 20% less damage than they should be, or whatever number you think that is, nor is there any proof at all that they are.

I am well aware that good feral druids are usually top 5 on recounts saw plenty of them myself. I am playing on Ragnaros realm with TFK as my guild so I don't know for Deathwing. For the rogue part rogues should be above hunters and on pair with good feral cats. I can't sustain 22k+ for that I'd need above average RNG while hunters usually do that with ease. So it's either other classes do way to much dmg or it's the rogue that aint' doing enuf.

But yeah the bleed is love for me at least. Getting up to 40k dmg per rupture is sweet instead of the average 15k eviscerates whilist rupure's gona be 25k+

Off topic:
I've checked some of your vids yea u do usually bring 1 cat but still I find your lack of rogues disturbing :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

"hardcore" guilds like Aurora, TFK etc..

---

Please don't compare TFK with Aurora. We are NOT hardcore as them. Having few awesome players doesn't make us Hardcore. We the Council of TFK want to have TFK as a causal-socio-raiding guild. Ty. Why do i say this? This is important for what i write next.

You asked why TFK and Aurora and other guilds don't take ferals or rogues to their runs. I can't talk on behalf of other guilds. I sure can on behalf of TFK council. I explained this to you once on teamspeak. Done it with many other rogues. Fine, 30 mins more. No worries. I will put forward facts and base my logic on that. Lets start.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Rogues/feral cats bring nothing useful to a raid and take spots for those who bring useful **** to raid.

---

Never said that. Feral dps is awesome. 1 extra innervate. 1 extra battle ress. That versatility makes them very unique. I can't talk much about rogues as i have not much knowledge about them. TFK is always ready and willing to take ferals. We have in past. We will in future. Its just we lack ferals in guild.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Rogues/feral cats do low dmg aka "can't carry"

---

Another BS. Ferals and Rogues for that matter have PROVED that they can be top 5 dps in TFK raids. Bramse(Rogue), Tweeka(Rogue), Akatsukiy(Feral) and yourself(Flyinginsect) for that matter in recent raids. But what you fail to understand is, not EVERY rogue or feral can pull the same dps. Its player dependent right? And TFK doesn't have these "PRO" Ferals and Rogues always. Most are inactive. Only active rogue in tfk that can pull this dps is you (Flyinginsect).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

More melee tends to pressure healers to much aka we take more dmg

---

Healing hasn't been a problem in TFK ever. We 3 healed LoD so give me a break. We take necessary melees who can perform. Rogue who cannot do more dps than OT, not gonna happen in TFK raids. Not you. But there have been plenty of rogues in TFK who couldn't even beat an OT at LK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Rogue/feral cat is useless/garbage/trash

---

Repeated comment combining Comment 1 & 2. The classes are not trash. Players are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Rogue/feral cat players are bad as fuk(they can't play their class in PvE)

---

Most are. Every rogue / feral i speak, and ask to improve. Their response is very standard.

1. Bugged class so cant perform (I have seen awesome dps on rogue before moltdown. Give me a break when someone says class is bugged as fck. If 1 can perform why the hell cant others?
2. Very hard to play, trying. (This goes on for months)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

But here on Warmane It's simply unrealistically damn hard to get into a raid with my rogue let's not even talk about players who'd like to go feral cat... and I'm not a **** one even tho I started to think that I am. The more ranged part is understandable at LoD but even here I mean c'mon..? 4 hunts, 3 spriest etc.. just to abuse the hell outa the transition phase cuz apparently a 15 min enrage timer with 30% dmg buff is not enuf.

---

I really don't understand why people compare warmane to retail. If people wanted to play on rogue, they would have stayed on retail. Anyways not gonna go offtopic. Its your personal choice where you play. You either play or move on to something better or worse. I've played on pvt servers where you could have 140 points in your talent tree. Tank ulduar in tree form. GG. Anyways next point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

From my point of view as I see it, either u pick a rdps to get an insta raidd invite or u may asslick the hellouta of an officer for a mdps invite or possibly even start bribing them to get a rogue or feral cat inside.

---

Not sure which guild u r referring about. But getting instant raid invite is never done in TFK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Rogues and ferals ain't useless!! Yes it's true they're pure DPS classes but they do their job just fine it worked on retail it can work here. Rogues giefs you 4% dmg increase in combat spec + an aggro + dmg increase spell every 30 sec aka TotT and yes WE CAN TOTT THE DAMN TANK at beginning it's not just hunters who can do that. If ya telling me that getting free dmg and aggro for 6 sec(10 with glyph) is useless then I'm sorry but I can't comprehend your thinking. And yes you can get every buff in the raid even with rogues and feral cats.

---

Not denying any of this. What you fail to understand is, multiple times, TFK Raid dps isn't best. In layman terms, we carry a lot. And it is our PREFERENCE to take an additional "Hunter" or "Boomkin" or "Spriest" instead of a "****ty Rogue who cant pull more dps than OT". We never have ferals so not gonna speak about them. But yes. If we are sure the raid is gonna slack, WE WILL take a SPriest or Hunter or Boomkin instead of rogue. Success of a raid falls on our shoulders. To make sure we succeed in clearing a run, is it a crime if we make a choice to take some class that can assist us in multiple ways? You wanted comparison. Lets have it.

Hunters - Awesome MD's. Rogue can tot. Sure. But we like hunters more. MD's, fake tanking LK, Good dps. Why not?
Spriests - Many times we have problems with soaking viles. At VDW, we always take and always will atleast 4 priests. We will not save extra characters for 1 boss. Sorry. So ye. Instead of 2 spriests we will go 3. or 4. Helps us in many fights. Their soaking(Many soaks are not perfect. Having more helps us in surviving the phase. That bad? Not in our opinion), their off healing at many bosses, ability to hymn.
Boomkins - We don't use Engg ress. We don't have night elf racial. Many of our players have unfortunate deaths. So ye. BRess is very crucial for us. Innervates. Off healing during transition. Extra typhoons.

It's just these are more valuable to us than rogue for clearing the run. Factually speaking, rogues have been a burden to us. Multiple times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Rogues and ferals can't carry. Man I've heard this so many times and it sickens me. You have a 30% buff in ICC, 70% of the raid is BiS in LoD/RS raids and I'm told that ~18k+ is not enuff? Yes rogues do ~20% less dmg than they're supposed to but feral cats work as far as I know just fine and they stomp recounts. With 30% buff even frost mages would work as you need on average ~12k dps for LoD.

---

It is very easy of you to put it in numbers. Avg dps, boss hp and calculate how much it will take to down him. Only if that was so easy said than done. We are farming lod here cause we worked for it. By testing our comps. By improving our play-styles. We just didn't make a guild and start farming. Sorry we aren't that pro. Not gonna speak about ferals as we have always considered them awesome. Too bad we don't have any of those. Ones that can pull good dps atleast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Melees tend to pressure healers and are dying a lot more than ranged. Please.. really? I can play my hunt and stand in marrowgar's flame just as much as I do on my rogue, the only exception is sindragosa and bpc and even here with 10% brain usage u can't take more dmg than a ranged dps does. No you don't need 3 spriests to keep up with the healing that's just BS, if a 50/50 dps/rdps ratio worked on retail LoD with 5 healers it can work here as well where it's even easier due to 30% buff and half the stuff being broken.

---

I have no idea where you wer before or how u did things. 2 years ago, most of our lod wipes wer coz of melee stepping on shadow traps. If you are gonna generalize it, im gonna start giving you history of our raiding. We wiped mainly coz of melees. So you say we should have still taken plenty of them. Sorry bro. We evolved and started doing what worked for us. Rdps it is. Now things have changed. We are not wiping cause of that ****. We have improved. We strive to keep improving. We evolve. You did get to raid on your rogue 2-3 times atleast. Its just raid dependent as i mentioned before. We 4 heal it just so that we can have 1 more extra dps. Done 3 heal 3 times now. No biggy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Rogues and ferals're trash and players're terrible with them on top of it. Yes I know 1 outa 400 rogues/cats is decent here but hey how the fk are they supposed to learn how to play them when they can't get their favorite class in the raid? Those guys who're good surely can take few mins to tell them how to get good. Yes I also know you need gear to be useful but so does every other class right? Even if ya ain't BiS u can do more dps than most of the classes with the same ilvl/gs.

---

A 5.8k hunter did same dps as a 6.4k gs rogue. Right. Just facts. 1/400 rogues/cats are decent. Ok for discussion sake lets assume thats true. This is similar to that GS Addon forum post i read sometime ago. How the hell are 5k level gs guys supposed to get gears if they don't get invited to raids. Its pretty simple. You wanna raid? You will find a solution for it yourself. Join a guild which supports your visions. If not make a guild. Join a raid where you will be taken. If not make a raid yourself. Ok cant do those two. Then im out of options. If you want just loots you could checkout warmane coin shop. But i dunno man. If you wanna play a class which no one wants and you want them to take you, and they wont, i dunno. I would go retail i guess where they take rogues (Never been to retail).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

So for all the officers and other high ranked members in guilds. Please tell me why rogues/ferals are not in raids, why you must run the 25/75 ratio raid comps. If it's for nothing else than abusing the LK fight or because you've seen terribad players or got random hate toward melee and are just denying players to play a melee class for other random reasons please tell me.

---

• Why they are not in raids? Our (TFK) raid comps and players don't give us a choice. It takes a lot more rather than just best comps(We have tried that). If possible we do include them. Most of the times we can't and hence we don't.
• Why you must run 25/75 ration comps? Why does google give many tools for free? It works for them. 25:75 works for us. Simple as that. Personal preference.
• Abusing LK fight? Taking 3 spriests, 3 boomkins, 3 hunters, 2 mages, 1 lock, 1 ele is abusing lk? Having more ranged that melee is abusing lk?
• Seen terrible players? Yes.
• Seen good players? Yes.
• Random hate towards melee? Oh no. This is hate towards those classes which "most" people fail to succeed on. This isn't some random hate. This is directed specifically to Rogues who can't perform. What about those who can? They have always found spots in our raids (Not always).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

I just want to play like I did on retail with 2-3 rogues/cats/dks per raid w/o having to *** lick someone + to let us melees actually play the class we like instead of being forced to be a hunter/mage or gtfo from the guild/raid. And as a rogue myself bringing some yellow color + kittys in the raid is awsm.

---

• You can never have retail experience anywhere. Like wise you will never have warmane experience anywhere. Its not hard to understand. Every experience is unique. You like warmane? You play at warmane. You like retail? You play at retail. You like to make own server? Im sure if you have will to do it, you will. Its just a matter of preference. A choice. That only you can make. Warmane tries or says its trying to make it like retail. They cannot attain 100% experience. They can get near to it. Maybe improve it. Who knows. Lorderon is still under progress. Who knows what things it will bring to other realms. I will give them the benefit of doubt and wait. Wait patiently to see what they change. If rogues are able to raid like in retail or whatever.
• Play the class we like instead of being forced. Very true. We force you to play a certain class coz that is what you got accepted for. Or else you wouldn't be accepted in the first place. We take what we need to make success. Formula might change. Ingredient might change. We care about success. And if that excludes rogues, then so be it. After all its our preference right.
• It's a players choice on what he wants to play. Its a players choice on how he wants to play. It's a raid leaders choice on what he wants in the raid. Can you see? It's all about choices. Why can't people let others make independent choices. You ask why we force you to not play these classes indirectly. Well why do you force us to take these classes directly. You do as you deem fit. Let us do as we deem fit. Be happy and let others be happy. GG. Universal happiness. After all. Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

tl;dr if this worked on retail http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000(Paragons world 1st 25hc LK kill) why can't it work here and only this or close to this must be http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000

---

Isn't it the obvious answer? This isn't retail. We can try. Can we achieve what retail players did? Only time will be the judge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffybully

p.s If I offended some1 in some way I kinda don't care :).
p.p.s sorry for mah grammar skills

---

Thing is, we spoke about this for a long time. I'm sure i still have the chat records. Its basic understanding which you didn't get. Grammar is fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maniacofpeace

Did you know that those Ferals often beat the other melee in DPS, despite those melees being some of the best players on the server, because those Feral players know their class inside-out? If those guilds you mentioned are going out of their way to avoid bringing Feral druids, then they're simply awful.

[bold]They are, however, one of the hardest specs in the game to master and perform well on.[/bold]

---

Feral druids in TFK:
In the 3 year history of TFK in Molten/Warmane we have had single digit of good ferals. I have forgotten their names. But i have all of them on FB. We used to have Tweeka. Akatsukiy. Vince. Luka. But thats all. And these guys have not played in 1year+. Ones who want to raid, are very undergeared. 5.5k etc. Dont want to do normal runs. Want to go straightly to heroics. Hence never get invited. GG. Whose fault is this? Oh yes. We should recruit more ferals. But when we can achieve the same end, why the **** would we go out and search? We did open feral recruitment for long time. No apps. So? Dropped it. What will we achieve? A better experience? TFK Gets its experience from players. Not from what they play. We play to have fun. And if we can do it with the people that we like, things like "feral a must n a raid to be a pro" doesnt matter to us no more. We get the same **** done with ****ty comps. Doesnt effect us much. We try to get ferals. We dont. We just adjust evolve and move on.

Rogues in TFK:
Again. Numbers are very small. Tweeka Bramse Vince were some pro rogues. We have other rogues in guild. Flyinginsect does fine dps. But others? Not so much. Anyways we got other things to worry about than rogue. Hence we hate them. GG

Enhancement shamans:
Shiseioni and Tweeka. Awesome players on those classes. Should take them too. GG.

GG Lets take all types of classes, give them chance to improve, trust in them that they will login every week, and hope. Bloody hope that we manage to clear the content with them.

OR

Fck the comps. Take whats necessary. Get it cleared. Dont brag. Just sit back and enjoy [ -Rogues. -Enhancement shamans -Ferals(None in guild) RIP]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smoq

Well ferals bring same 5% crit u get off a warrior Selaya. and since other warrior buffs are replaced by Gbom / Imp ... means Warriors are not viable inraids? every BUFF has usually 2 classes that can supply it. so think. rogues boost tanks threat, damage of melee's, support some CC etc etc. with a burst of AoE if needed. so they are just as viable as any class. ferals give 5% crits, bleeds, VATE / CMB RESS. so... GG sir.

using those inraids isnt an insta wipe.

/cheerz

---

using those inraids isnt an insta wipe. Nope. Its not a wipe. Its just we made a choice to not invite rogues. Simple as that. We have our own logic behind it, which can be agreeable or not and doesnt matter if someone agrees or not. Doesnt change a thing. We are always interested in ferals and as i am aware we have got 3-4 ferals gearing up as we speak. About rogues, we can think of it. Finally its just a choice. Will u take it. Or not. And time will decide if we start inviting them more.

I didn't compare TFK to Aurora I just pointed out the 2 biggest guilds on Ragnaros that're kinda active atm. I meant it for every guild on ragnaros that is/was doing the raids as I explained above. Also I didn't say that it was TFK who said rogues're crap etc.. it's just what I heard trough the year of my gameplay as a rogue from lots of other players.

Anyway thanks for teh reply

Shashank made an awesome post so I will just add few things.

We take as little melees as possible. 1-2 death knights (frost and unholy), 1 warrior for hp shout and crit, 2 ret paladins (Blesssings + replenishment for 2x10 players)). Sometimes we replace warriors with ferals if one sign ups.

Why we prefer more ranged and as little melees as possible? Simple defile and 3rd phase on LK. I have seen so many melees put Defile under LK, sometimes spreading it over whole platform, sometimes luckily tank managed to get away from that person. When we are dpsing Valkyrs, those melee go under them and try to nuke them down, ignoring calls about incoming Defile and placing it usually under the Valks who picked a player so he can't be 'rescued' till it disappears.

During phase 3 when tanks are switching spots after Viles spawn most of the melees are useless, trying to follow the tank and LK only to realize that a Defile is about to spawn, meaning they have to spread, leaving LK alone so they won't place it under him and the tank who has aggro.

I can't speak for other guilds, but that is my reasoning, why I I don't take more melees than I have to.

I've seen plenty of rdps screwing up the defile as well. Those fools who don't listen can be replaced/punished somehow. I got no problems with defiles and I'm 90% of the time not even spreading unless sprint/nitro boots're on CD. Every melee who's using half the brain power can be useful even on P3. But that's just 1 boss. It's kinda not fair to those melees who dun fail defiles or at P3 to not to be in raid. But what about RS? I see no reason not to have more melees..

Gokuzg pretty much got the main reasons right.

And as for people wiping on defiles, most defile wipes in my experience of over 150+ LoD kills, and even more wipes, across several guilds, have by and large been because of melee DPS. Sometimes it's because they're DPS-whores and take risks by moving as late as possible (or not moving at all, for that matter), and sometimes it's because they're simply careless and forget that tunneling and ignoring defile timers is a bad idea.

Of course this isn't to say that ranged DPS never mess up defile, but the ability to stand far away from a boss lends itself towards more of a safety net against mechanics like defile that work based on the number of targets in its range. Melee DPS are by default within the range of several other melee DPS, whereas the same isn't necessarily true of ranged DPS.

Sigh, Feral druids > all