PVE Holy Priest still worth it?

Hi, just wondering if there is any point in still rolling a pve holy priest for high-end hc raiding. I know that mana is always a problem but if you manage to get the right amount of spirit and use your abilities wisely its a win you'll never get oom and how can I not mention Guardian Spirit its amazing.

Now I can't say how it is in icc25hc cause still not achieved the run yet but I have healed icc10n, 10hc and 25n and I don't see any problems in not using or giving a spot for holy priest.

That said and considering that I am refering mainly to my own experience in guild raids. Every othe raid that I do the preference always goes to Disc priest and they kind of think a lot if it is a good decision to have a holy priest and I practically see everyone rolling disc priest lately.

Is the shield so OP? Guess Holy priest will be gone completely soon :(

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Originally Posted by Shakta

That said and considering that I am refering mainly to my own experience in guild raids. Every othe raid that I do the preference always goes to Disc priest and they kind of think a lot if it is a good decision to have a holy priest and I practically see everyone rolling disc priest lately.

Is the shield so OP? Guess Holy priest will be gone completely soon :(

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Hi,
holy can be replaced by rdruid/rsham (even though there are some differencies - there is no much need to have burst aoe healing anyways). Disc is unique and crucial. And yes, those shields are OP, because they make ppl survive spells that would otherwise kill them, and removes casting delay when taking dmg. Endgame disc does +-13k shields inside ICC. And then there is LK infest/defile...

RS is other story.. since raid has to split up disc doesnt have enough targets to bubble and has to use direct heals.. Holy wins there.

I re-rolled to Disc Priest since I see that there is no point in rolling Holy anymore, yeah those shields are extremly OP I just tested it in a few raids. Its eaiser to play and does not require that much of skill like in Holy, just spam shields + penance/flash heal/prayer of healing + pom and repeat.

I still think Holy is very viable spec but nobody wants a Holy priest anymore, everyone wants Disc priest for the moment. So I'll get along with the flow for now.

dont know what you guys are talking about, i healed the realm first icc 25 hc on deathwing back in the day, as an holy priest.
PARAGON did the world first icc 25 with 1 holy priest, 1 disc, 1 restro shaman and 2 holy palas. As you can see holy priest has is place on 25 man content.
The thing that i find about holy priest is that the Hps can be quite low if you dont know what you are doing...but if you are good you can be at the top of the charts in some encounters.
Honestly just play what you enjoy most, unless you are on a hardcore PVE guild you just play what you want and try to have fun while doing it.

TL:DR
YES disc priest its op, YES there are classes that are easier to play BUT that doesnt mean you cant go holy priest.

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Originally Posted by Shakta

I re-rolled to Disc Priest since I see that there is no point in rolling Holy anymore, yeah those shields are extremly OP I just tested it in a few raids. Its eaiser to play and does not require that much of skill like in Holy, just spam shields + penance/flash heal/prayer of healing + pom and repeat.

I still think Holy is very viable spec but nobody wants a Holy priest anymore, everyone wants Disc priest for the moment. So I'll get along with the flow for now.

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Where are you playing? (if its deathwing/ragnaros, skip PoM its just a waste of mana and gcd - it heals before dmg is taken, not after as it's supposed to -> overheal 99% of the time - I don't know about lord - would be great if you could test it there)

Holy is great and its my favorite healing spec. Unfotunately Disc is a must have for doing LoD. That's one of the reasons why I play holy/disc (other is that I rly don't like shadowform visual).

Holy has amazing throughput in burst aoe dmg fights or when other healers slack or when you go with lower amount of good healers. (3 heals should be more than enough for icc25hc - hpal + disc + whatever; you can even 2 heal 25n)

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Originally Posted by jendah

Where are you playing? (if its deathwing/ragnaros, skip PoM its just a waste of mana and gcd - it heals before dmg is taken, not after as it's supposed to -> overheal 99% of the time - I don't know about lord - would be great if you could test it there)

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holy molly thats an ooooooollllldd bug, how in the world isnt that fixed?

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Originally Posted by St0rmS

holy molly thats an ooooooollllldd bug, how in the world isnt that fixed?

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Well, sadly a lot of old fixes got lost after Moltdown. So many, many things that were fixed in the past are once again broken.

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Originally Posted by jendah

Where are you playing? (if its deathwing/ragnaros, skip PoM its just a waste of mana and gcd - it heals before dmg is taken, not after as it's supposed to -> overheal 99% of the time - I don't know about lord - would be great if you could test it there)

Holy is great and its my favorite healing spec. Unfotunately Disc is a must have for doing LoD. That's one of the reasons why I play holy/disc (other is that I rly don't like shadowform visual).

Holy has amazing throughput in burst aoe dmg fights or when other healers slack or when you go with lower amount of good healers. (3 heals should be more than enough for icc25hc - hpal + disc + whatever; you can even 2 heal 25n)

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I am playing in Deathwing, now regarding PoM not working I think you should test it again cause its working as far as I can see, it is not healing you before you take dmg, its actually healing you after you take dmg as it should be.

Did a few raids and its perfectly visible how PoM its healing, jumping to the other ppl and doing its job. Also took a look at recount to see what PoM is doing and its not overhealing its in fact healing like it should be.

Yes, I agree with you Holy its amazing but its AOE healing its easily beaten by a resto shaman/druid and Disc priest is the preference now, only cause its damn OP shields.

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Originally Posted by Shakta

I am playing in Deathwing, now regarding PoM not working I think you should test it again cause its working as far as I can see, it is not healing you before you take dmg, its actually healing you after you take dmg as it should be.

Did a few raids and its perfectly visible how PoM its healing, jumping to the other ppl and doing its job. Also took a look at recount to see what PoM is doing and its not overhealing its in fact healing like it should be.

Yes, I agree with you Holy its amazing but its AOE healing its easily beaten by a resto shaman/druid and Disc priest is the preference now, only cause its damn OP shields.

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The thing is I tested it yesterday on ragnaros. (I used PoM on myself and got a mob to hit me once -> just overheal).
I would say that holy aoe is the best in game, but its burst aoe (PoH), those two are better with lower raid dmg (hots, smart-heal chain).

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Originally Posted by jendah

The thing is I tested it yesterday on ragnaros. (I used PoM on myself and got a mob to hit me once -> just overheal).
I would say that holy aoe is the best in game, but its burst aoe (PoH), those two are better with lower raid dmg (hots, smart-heal chain).

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Did you lose health though? I mean, if PoM heals you for 5k, a mob hits you for 2k and you remain full hp, what's the real difference here? Or is this another case of being obsessed with the healing meter addons?

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Originally Posted by Touchooo

Did you lose health though? I mean, if PoM heals you for 5k, a mob hits you for 2k and you remain full hp, what's the real difference here? Or is this another case of being obsessed with the healing meter addons?

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The problem is that I lost hp (healed for 0, cca 5k overheal), I should have remained @full cause my PoM heals for more than the hit I took.

PoM works well in a situation when its on someone who lost some health already. Problem is that those situations are rare with well-working healers (especially with good disc).

examples:
You are at 30/32k hp. PoM heals for 5k. You take a hit for 5k

how it should work:
You take a hit for 5k -> and PoM immediately after that heals you (5k damage taken -> 5k healing; 0 overheal) -> you are at 30/32k hp.

how it works:
PoM heals (2k healing; 3k overheal) you and after that you take a hit -> you are at 27/32k hp.

Thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by jendah

how it should work:
You take a hit for 5k -> and PoM immediately after that heals you (5k damage taken -> 5k healing; 0 overheal) -> you are at 30/32k hp.

how it works:
PoM heals (2k healing; 3k overheal) you and after that you take a hit -> you are at 27/32k hp.

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same issue for lifebloom on druids, earth shield on shamans things that should proc after a hit only work if the player is already below 100% hp. does not matter if you are 32k/32k when your hit for 5k and it heals for 5k you should be right back at 32k. currently if you are at 32k/32k and take a 5k hit its a 100% overheal.

paragon did it their way because they were pushing a world first. this requires a much different set up than it does at 30% buff and when its already on farm. i like priests but they were just terrible in icc holy and disc. disc had its uses on LK as we all know but absorbs on things like RS just dont work here. holy is useful in RS and for pushing bosses because of speed bubble and its ability to mitigate a lot of spread/speed damage tactics such as defile and combustion/consumption.

however in retail niether of the guilds i raided with used them except those fights and sindy bc of unchained working properly then. so our shadow would swap to holy. they cant out perform a druid or sham or a pally. the only utility they bring is GS which has more use here on molten because of things like VDW and has the ability to turn the tide on some things but its not really that big of a deal to pick one up just for that reason.

disc bubbles are first off, guessed, always have been always will be any absorb is, secondly, actual healing >absorbs. why? because if a player or the raid itself is sitting low on HP as a whole then a bubble wont save them. you need actual healing done in a large amount something that many other classes including holy do 100x better than disc in order to stabilize the damage and get players topped off.

priests just got crapped on in 3.3 its not their fault. good ones are still needed for obvious reasons here on molten and they were in retail but if ICC ever gets fixed their value will drop significantly more so than it already has since improved renew got fixed. they are more situational healers than something you want to rely on for every single boss.

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Originally Posted by Funkymusic

disc bubbles are first off, guessed, always have been always will be any absorb is, secondly, actual healing >absorbs. why? because if a player or the raid itself is sitting low on HP as a whole then a bubble wont save them. you need actual healing done in a large amount something that many other classes including holy do 100x better than disc in order to stabilize the damage and get players topped off.

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Speaking from a holy pala/disc perspective, actual healing is still mostly guessed. You don't know whether target A will take 10k right before your heal lands or right after. Not that you're wrong that absorbes are guessed, but so is healing (when the target is full on HP). And anyhow, it's all about reaction time, isntant heals that other classes have (discounting swiftmend on rdruids) heal around the same amount of damage a discs' shield absorbs. Both your isntant heal or the discs' instant absorb could save a target. I don't see how a bubble won't save a target that's on low health, of course this discounts tards who go out of their way to take extra damage once on low health.

TL;DR: Healing is just as much guessing as is spamming absorbs, both have their place as you said yourself, the actually important factor in healing is reaction time and positioning (to a great extent).

I'm saying the meters that record absorbs are guessing at the amount. Skada recount heck even world of logs guesses at them. Actual healing is not guessed on those things that can record said actual healing.

To your point though, yes it's a crap shoot as far as when damage may be taken and what you are casting. But that was never my point.