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I've been playing a warlock mainly on deathwing for about 3 months now, I was doing about 15K on DBS in icc,but since the core update I am now doing 11/12K max as hybrid spec. I understand that a lot of classes got nerfed/buffed like arcane mages doing insane damage at the moment, so tell me, in your opinion what class does the most damage at the moment? feel free to post your screenshots of insane dps and your specs :D
I don't know why, but Blizzard always seems to enjoy mages and keep them on the buffed/OP side of the line. Just look at WoD 6.0 as an example. When players were getting to a 100 and gearing up to raid there were a lot of complaints coming from various classes, that X spec wasn't producing X DPS and some classes outside of healing/tanking were dead, I think Shamans we're a great example of this, but Mages had frost as their go to DPS spec, and what'd Blizzard do?
They turned and buffed the hell out of Arcan and Fire to make them more competitive with Frost, but Shamans (and many other specs) got benched until later when they finally got their buffs.
As far as WoTLk goes and how it was like in retail, I remember a lot of Ret Paladin's topping the charts followed by Arcane Mages and MM Hunters. Locks we're great, Spriest were doing just fine, but nothing ever brings the heat like Mage as this seems like Blizzard favorite love child. One will rarely see a patch go by where mages are less then number 1.
mages, hunts, warrs, and rogues. rogues got great burst, fury warrs will dominate if got shadowmourne, hunts with arm pen cap is awesome, and mages always do good dps because well what else do they got like hunts and rogues xD.
Err, rets were a utility class for this patch, they weren't in the top for DPS unless you were raiding with a bunch of potatoes. You also forgot about ferals, rogues, and warriors.Quote:
Originally Posted by saghha
fury warriors with ARP cap are the best.
OP is on DW that which is a 3.3 ICC patch where everything is....well dead, that which is increased damage for ret paladins, also is the patch for Shadowmourne and that was a great boost to their damage. I don't ever remember Rets being utility in icc, i could be wrong, i was a healer in 3.3, but i played ret in 3.0 Naxx (retail) and I had damage equal to everyone else around me, i might not have been topping the charts, but i did competitive damage to everyone else around me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixtyninee
As far as Ferals go, i rarely saw one in raiding, most druids in wotlk (as a whole) were either moonkins, tanks, or trees.
Rogues? I won't deny that some rogues were doing great, but I still think mages were doing better then them, that's why I left them out.
Warriors? Most warriors I saw in raiding were tanks, they were out dps'd by almost every rogue i knew. The only thing warriors really were beating were Enh Shammy and Uh Dk was much better then warriors. I remember a lot of dps warriors crying over dk's in wotlk as dk's were taking their spots.
I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion or your own experiences, but as the OP was asking for "which class does the most dps" I felt hands down the best of the best goes to Mages, No questions asked. No contest. Mage FTW! It's a well known fact that Blizzard has never let mages go under balanced for a complete patch.
I'll link this chart as just an example, Rogues show up the best for melee and Mage shows up the most for range, but this also isn't the best graph to go off of either, just making a point that mages seem to show up in the top 3 every single boss fight and over all, but also rogues fall short some fights, that which is normal as melee has always seemed to struggle more in some fights as there is a lot of movement fights that cause a large loss of dps:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/06/i...lysis-by-spec/
Here's another charts from World of Logs where Fury is their top, followed by mage, followed by rogue. But as always, it comes down to mobility and that's where a range shines over a melee: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/534914-/55886296
It truly does flop between bosses and some melee can really shine, other encounters range will shine more.
Instead of basing it off average charts where they purposely included a large chunk of bad players, on 3.3.3, let's look at the actual end of wotlk world of logs data.Quote:
Originally Posted by saghha
https://web.archive.org/web/20101013...wn_Citadel/dps
First, let me explain to you something. There is a rather HUGE discrepancy between "3.3" and 3.3.5a. Hello? Ruby Sanctum?Quote:
Originally Posted by saghha
MRW Druid tank != FeralQuote:
Originally Posted by saghha
Dude, just because you didn't see one didn't mean they didn't exist.
"some rogues were doing great" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by saghha
Meanwhile, you're trying to link us logs with evidence that Rogues had TWO specs, not just ONE, that are above MAGES.
watQuote:
Originally Posted by saghha
............. wat
Again, what you - YOU - see in the game doesn't make up THE ENTIRE PVE LOGS OF THE GAME.
Except, there's a pretty big difference here. The opinion of someone who may or may not have raided casual, but casual enough to be completely unaware of the performance of other people outside of their group VS. the opinion of someone who was in a capable raiding guild at the time AND paid attention to people outside their own raids, like actually paying attention to World of Logs.Quote:
Originally Posted by saghha
Just STOP. First link is AVERAGE DPS, meaning GOD DPS is divided against SCRUBLORD DPS. Second link is second-hand information based on EARLY ICC without any evidence except for "I took this off WoL". NEITHER of these are ACCURATE, nor APPLICABLE to our situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by saghha
https://web.archive.org/web/20101013...wn_Citadel/dps
Try this instead.
Rets should NOT be TOP 5.
Period.
End of discussion.
Thanks for your time.
Caps used for emphasis.
@Lynea
I'm not even sure what to say.....You seem to have taken EVERYTHING I said way out of context and almost to personal. My opinions and experiences were mine alone. I never said they were 100% true and a !00% accurate. Did you wake up salty or something this morning?
1. 1 Raid Boss? You think one raid boss is a huge discrepancy? The bulk of 3.3 and 3.3.5 was always ICC, there wasn't even a lot of guilds downing RS in retail when this stuff was current, I'm not even sure why you bothered bringing it up as it's never the focus of any current raiding guild either and that's because everyone would rather go to one large instance with a lot of raid bosses versus, versus a small one with 1 raid boss.
Your point just went out the window.
2. I never said there weren't ANY Feral cats in raiding. Please reread what I said, I said "rarely". That implies that yes (and I know it's hard to believe) there were some feral cats in icc, but just from Druids alone. No, lol. Just no. Most were moonkins or resto, followed by tanks. Then compare those numbers to the dps classes. Bet you anything that you'd see a very low percentage of players that go in as feral cats and I'll say it again, RARELY, not ever! Even going off the chart you linked, there was one encounter where ferals showed up the most and that was Festergut.
Your reading comprehension really sucks.
3. I really don't know what you were trying to say here, but I'll sum what I was trying to say. All I said was Most Warriors were Tanks. Like, ya know. Just my opinion. So calm down. I didn't even take a lot of info into consideration and I thought that was pretty clear as I didn't even spend a lot of time digging up any real logs. If I was wrong about Warriors, so be it. I have no issues being proven wrong where I am wrong, but I'll still hold fast with my OP that Mages were/are the best as Blizzard seems to baby them the most.
4. There's little to no difference when the person isn't wrong. My whole post was about how mages are the best dps in the game (that which is what the OP of the thread was asking in the first place) and you really haven't proved me wrong.
That which leads me to your last post.
5. Just from the link you shared with us Mages seem on top more so then any other class, and I'll add that Fury comes in at a good second. But thank you for actually doing some extra homework for me, I'll admit I was far to lazy to do it myself and only running off my own experiences between here and wotlk retail. I just don't think much has really changed after you went through all that as my post wasn't about rets, or feral, rogues, my whole point was to try and answer the OP's question as to which class does the most dps, to that I think i've made it clear (and just my opinion) that mages take the cake, but that should be nothing new really, or should it?
Mages are #1
If this is TLDR to sum it up, he lives in 3.3 not 3.3.5 and dismisses the MASSIVE damage increase RS items gave casters and ARP based classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
mages are the best so much dps
It's not personal at all. You're spreading misinformation, and I wish it'd stop. Your opinions and experiences are great and all, but they do not trump irrefutable fact. Am I salty about you spreading misinformation? Of course I am. What the guy is asking for is not subjective, therefore not up to opinion. You coming here and stating your opinions misleads the guy. It's **** like this that happens that causes stupid arguments over things like "which is best, mitigation tank or stam stack tank?", to which the majority of the community will say the wrong thing, because the wrong people are often the most out-spoken.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
You're pretty ****ing ignorant if you honestly believe the difference between 3.3.0 and 3.3.5 is one raid boss. This raid boss not only drops significantly higher ilvl items than the usual ICC assortment, but trinkets as well. Moreover, are you familiar with the term "patch notes"? Here, let me link them for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
http://www.wowhead.com/patchnotes=3.3.2
http://www.wowhead.com/patchnotes=3.3.3
http://www.wowhead.com/patchnotes=3.3.5
That said, who cares what guilds were or were not downing on retail? That is completely irrelevant to us here. And even if it were, I already linked you the top logs from ICC prior to Cata, which included the top players who did have access to Ruby Sanctum loot. So..............
............. come again?Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
For one that's trying to use reading comprehension insults for their rebuttal, you sure are incapable of reading into what a person is trying to say. My point was that your experience with the rarity of Ferals is completely irrelevant, since your play experience doesn't reflect the entire community.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
No. That's not how things work. You cannot go and present a statement in the syntax of a factual statement, then backpedal and state that it was just an "opinion". Next time, start your sentence with "I believe _____", this way, people (including myself) won't think you're trying to tell us how things were, rather than just what you experienced or thought things to be. As I stated above, telling me to "calm down" (which, IDK why, because apparently I'm coming across as upset...?) as a reaction to me telling you that your opinions and experiences mean jack as opposed to facts and data, comes across to me as... hm, you seeming intimidated by my approach. Whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
Then I highly suggest, next time, you say you think Mages are best, and spare us your little rant about Rogues, Warriors, Ferals, and the fact that you think Rets should be in top 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
I didn't do it for you. Don't flatter yourself. I care nothing for the people who intentionally try to misinform other members of our community here. I did it for the OP, in hopes that I could shed some light on things since certain individuals decided to **** up his thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkadnsg
For someone that has been completely wrong, you sure are trying to argue and shift your argument as much as you can to try and make it seem that you are right. You've made it really clear that's the only thing you care about here - being right and trying to show it off - not trying to help the OP. So, as I said, just STOP.
P.S. And as for "your point going out the window", here's to YOUR "Mage should be top" argument. AND I QUOTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saghha
tl;dr reading all the bs posted here
Fury Warriors and TTW Mages are the top DPSers of WotLK. This is not an opinion. If you don't agree, then you're bad, you have limited knowledge about WotLK scaling and endgame, and you never played a Mage or a Warrior on WotLK end-game (or if you did, you were bad with it).
Bye.
I would say hunter is on par with warriors in terms of effective DPS, which in my opinion is mainly pure single target DPS, with exceptional encounters when you have to nuke tons of adds as fast as you can. Warriors are on top because of cleaving nature of their damaging attacks, since there are a lot of fights with adds, you see warriors on top most of the time.
I think mage is the ultimate best single target DPS, then comes hunter and warrior, rogues should be good as well. Idk if they are broken here or what, but I rarely see any good rogue.