I think Fester25HC far better than Aldriana

We mainly wear leather offset at 2.5k str cap for ArP/Crit but even for an agi item aldriana is bad for endgame. Since it gives haste instead of crit it is only 0.4 crit increase which is not much and not good when we sacrifice 55 str without buffs. And if we shape our talent a bit to get 5/5 enrage the difference will increase noticable. Anyway this is my thought only and for ps I calculated this with 3/5 enrage talent, at 5/5 with %2 hit loss t10 hands being superior.

PS: Aldriana gives 90arp, Fleshrending gives 139 +6str.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

We mainly wear leather offset at 2.5k str cap for ArP/Crit but even for an agi item aldriana is bad for endgame. Since it gives haste instead of crit it is only 0.4 crit increase which is not much and not good when we sacrifice 55 str without buffs. And if we shape our talent a bit to get 5/5 enrage the difference will increase noticable. Anyway this is my thought only and for ps I calculated this with 3/5 enrage talent, at 5/5 with %2 hit loss t10 hands being superior.

PS: Aldriana gives 90arp, Fleshrending gives 139 +6str.

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5/5 enrage is waste, since its unrelieable. the **** about adrianas's gloves has been discussed for 6 (!!!) years already. so ur whole "I think Fester25HC far better than Aldriana" is useless

No need to be rude to newbies.


Let's go over it one more time:

http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50690
139 +6 str
90 crit
74 haste

http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50675
165 ap => 63 str (str gives 2.6 ap after all buffs)
128 + 6 agi = 107 crit (1 agility gives cca 0.8 crit ratting after king)
90 arp
74 haste

So Aldriana's give you 82 less str, but 17 more crit and 90 more arpen. You could regem str to arpen or vice versa, so at the end Aldriana's give extra 17 crit and 8 str/arp.


http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=51226
147 str
90 crit
82 hit

Set hands give even worse stats than Flesrending Gountlets (1 less socket), but they are actually worth picking if you play an Orc. (and use mail legs instead of set ones)

And about Enrage - it proc's only when you are directly targeted by boss. When I tested it I got something like 5% uptime on icc 25hc bosses (I don't count trash, ship and vali) - you could probably get more uptime than that, but never more than 50%. Hit talents give 1% dmg in every fight.

Fleshrending with 3/5 enrage build or none, its still have %3hit. And Aldriana gives only %0.4 crit with all raid buffs/flasks/feasts. And Atkpower is lesser from Fleshrending, its giving 165atkpower via stats but Armored for Teeth (Atkpower for armor.) makes Fleshrending gives more AP. Its around 80AP difference in favor with Fleshrending and 0.4crit+ with Aldriana.

For t10 hands, its only with use of 5/5 enrage but its not a waste as you state. Its just a spice out of table, you dont rely on it but not skipping it aswell.

PS: Just cause EJ states something, people are worshipping. Im not stating if Aldriana is bad or not, I just state Fleshrending is better. If you going to worship EJ and get hit/haste legs for your HPala I wont discuss anymore, hope you got my point.

Fleshrending will /never/ effectively give you more AP than Aldrianas would.

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Originally Posted by Selaya

Fleshrending will /never/ effectively give you more AP than Aldrianas would.

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But it is giving.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

Fleshrending with 3/5 enrage build or none, its still have %3hit. And Aldriana gives only %0.4 crit with all raid buffs/flasks/feasts. And Atkpower is lesser from Fleshrending, its giving 165atkpower via stats but Armored for Teeth (Atkpower for armor.) makes Fleshrending gives more AP. Its around 80AP difference in favor with Fleshrending and 0.4crit+ with Aldriana.

For t10 hands, its only with use of 5/5 enrage but its not a waste as you state. Its just a spice out of table, you dont rely on it but not skipping it aswell.

PS: Just cause EJ states something, people are worshipping. Im not stating if Aldriana is bad or not, I just state Fleshrending is better. If you going to worship EJ and get hit/haste legs for your HPala I wont discuss anymore, hope you got my point.

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@hands
When you add the gemming swaps you'd have to do you'll get less AP actually. As jendah already told you, aldrianas will always give you more.

@EJ and hpala pants
You're quite delusional if you believe that the hit + haste legs are bad for a holy paladin.

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Originally Posted by Rifokelt

@hands
When you add the gemming swaps you'd have to do you'll get less AP actually. As jendah already told you, aldrianas will always give you more.

@EJ and hpala pants
You're quite delusional if you believe that the hit + haste legs are bad for a holy paladin.

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Gem swapping wont lower your atkpower with Aldriana you make 4.5 str gem and with Fleshrending you put 4.5 arp gem, same thing. But what he didnt count was armor bonus and counting atkpower as str (which is wrong cause you get extra bonuses from str while both gets atkpower bonuses.)

And for hit + haste legs. 264 Tai legs with crit + haste. Even you hit boss for mana or anything your role is not dps and you wont get rekt if you cant land a hit as healer.

Fleshrending gives you 139*2*1.2*1.1+(1723/108)*3 = 366.96+47.86 = 414.82 ap
Aldrianas gives you 165+((434+(128*2*1.1))/108)*3 = 165+19.88 = 184.88 ap
414.82-184.88 = 229.94 ap which translates into 87.1 STR

Okey, I just proved myself wrong, they basically are on parity AP wise, however you`re still getting free extra crit from Aldrianas
(jk with fixed math its less ap than Aldrianas)

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

Gem swapping wont lower your atkpower with Aldriana you make 4.5 str gem and with Fleshrending you put 4.5 arp gem, same thing. But what he didnt count was armor bonus and counting atkpower as str (which is wrong cause you get extra bonuses from str while both gets atkpower bonuses.)

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I counted with buff bonuses to str, that's why I divided AP by 2.6 (that is the conversion rate between ap and str with full buffs and talents), I didn't want to dig into armor, cause it will not change anything and it's complicated, but here you go:

Haste = same.
90 arp = 90 str (doesn't matter which one since you are going to gem the other on rest of your items.

Crit:
90 crit from plate = 90/45.91 (crit ratting per 1% crit) = 1.96% crit
134 agi from leather * 1.1 (kings) = 147 agi = 147/62.5 (agility per 1% crit for war) = 2.35% crit


AP:
(145-90) 55 str = (55*1.3 - for talents, and buffs - improved berserker stance = +20% and kings = +10%) *2 = 143 AP, and 1723 armor from plate hands -> 48 AP = 181 AP

Aldrianas gives 165, and 434 + 134(agi)*2 from leather = 702 armor -> 20 AP = 175 AP

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6 AP in favor of Plate vs 0.39% crit from agi (= 18 crit ratting). That's what it comes to. Difference is so small that it almost doesn't matter and you have no chance of noticing any change. And it can be proven only by math, since margin for error from test data is way bigger than this.

If you truly see bigger difference it means one of two thing: You either overlooked some buff, or buff stacking is broken again. (but even that shouldn't make that big difference).

wait what did i really **** up my math
looks like i did

in any case the multiplier is 2.64 (1.2*1.1*2), not 2.6 (works for simplified calcs tho)

Its 10ap at the end versus 18crit rate. I saw my mistake now. But at least I can bug warriors to drool over palas hand. Thanks for all replies.

Its less. Post the socket bonus its about 7 or 8 ap vs the crit.

However, all of this is pointless because the only time this would be relevant is when you`re gearing up, and surprise, you cannot really afford to gem your 90 ArP when using Fleshrending which is the real true value of Aldrianas

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Originally Posted by Selaya

wait what did i really **** up my math
looks like i did

in any case the multiplier is 2.64 (1.2*1.1*2), not 2.6 (works for simplified calcs tho)

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I thought that improved berserker stance and king should stack additively?

No, they stack multiplicatively, unless it got ****ed up which is possible