Suggestion for a healthy economy.

Suggestion:
- Reduce the gold rate on all realms to x1.
- On high rate realms divide the gold price by 7 for all goods vendor (general goods, mount vendor, etc) and the gold price of all trainer (class trainer, riding trainer, profession trainer, etc).
Vendor prices on lordaeron would stay on x1 while vendor prices on Icecrown and the other high rate realms are divided by 7 because XP rates are x7 on these realms.
This price reductions on Vendors should only apply to gold while costs in form of honor, emblem and all other kind of currency besides gold, aren't reduced.

Reason:
- The high gold rates are only there so player have enough gold to learn new spells, profs, riding skill, etc, on realms with high experience rates.
The idea behind it is to give player a easier start and make them faster ready for the end game content.
Higher gold rates are not necessary when vendor and trainer are cheaper on high rate realms.
- Time has proved that high gold rates are unhealthy for the economy and lead to a high inflation. Inflation also happens on x1 gold rates but is significant less.
- Higher gold rates are unbalanced:
The worth of all trash loot, that can only be sold at vendors, is not improved on higher gold rates and consquently this form of income loses its worth.
The high inflation makes daily quests also worthless and in the end everybody is forced to use the Auction house to earn a decent amount of gold while all other forms of income methods are pointless on high rate realms.


In my opinion the gold rates should have been set to x1 straight after the moltdown.
Now a change of the gold rates followed by a massive gold squish is neccesary because player hoarded tons of gold over the years.

Answering in order
Suggestion part:
-Warmane is thinking about lowering it to x3 and it already caused a massive... *not sure if I can call it so, but* riot. People hate this idea. Also, will only increase the amount of beggers across all these realms. People already outlevel the gear and dont have the gold to purchase new abilities/skills *Icecrown*, this will only force us to use ignoremore addon.
-Together with first one no change in any direction would happen. They outlevel the content and cant purchase abilities. Now the money they gain gets divided by 7 as do the prices, but that also means that the purchase-ability of the gold they receive remains the same, therefore suggestion is useless.

Reason part:
-As mentioned earlier, thanks to the exp boost it will be too fast still. Therefore this won't work.
-It leads to high inflation number-wise, but not percentage-wise. If base price is 50k and it goes up to 75k, inflation is 50%. But so it is if from 100 the price is changed to 150 - again the inflation is 50%. So it doesn't matter. It's like number squish in WoD, the inflation remains.
-This is the only part I can agree on - the worth of trash drops is close to none. Not sure if it's intended by Warmane to be so or not.
Also, AFAIK, daily quest rewards are incresed by gold rate, so worth of those doesn't change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deathmastered

-Together with first one no change in any direction would happen. They outlevel the content and cant purchase abilities. Now the money they gain gets divided by 7 as do the prices, but that also means that the purchase-ability of the gold they receive remains the same, therefore suggestion is useless.

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What is better to catch up with gold while leveling on x7 rates?
A) x3 gold rates with x1 vendor prices
B) x1 gold rates with 7 times reduced vendor prices
Its obvious that solution B is better so how is it a useless suggestion compared to http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=339560?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deathmastered

-This is the only part I can agree on - the worth of trash drops is close to none. Not sure if it's intended by Warmane to be so or not.

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And the worth of trash drops would increase by x7 if vendor prices are divided by 7.
Sounds like the perfect solution to catch up with gold while leveling on high rate realms especially when u consoder that selling trash mob junk at vendors should be a significant income during leveling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

What is better to catch up with gold while leveling on x7 rates?
A) x3 gold rates with x1 vendor prices
B) x1 gold rates with 7 times reduced vendor prices
Its obvious that solution B is better so how is it a useless suggestion compared to http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=339560?

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Excuse me in that case, I understood you meant x7/7=x1, not x1/7=...

Quote:

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And the worth of trash drops would increase by x7 if vendor prices are divided by 7.
Sounds like the perfect solution to catch up with gold while leveling on high rate realms.

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Only if all prices would be divided by 7. If I still get a drop that's worth 25g and someone used to and still is selling something for 5, I can still buy only 5 of this. Therefore it wouldn't be worth of trashdrops increasing, that would be worth of skills decreasing as far as I understand.

There is something called inflation.

Too much gold on the server?
Increase all prices by X.

In matter of few weeks, everyone will burn their gold most likely since ordinary stuff such as flying would be changed from 5k to 35k (OriginalPrice*RealmRate)

Even ordinary stuff such as food from vendors etc would be costly. With that in mind, auction house would go nuts for 2-3 weeks but it would burn everyones money down.

Once we reach the point where we can say that certain amount of gold is burned out then simply return the gold rate to x3 as it was planned.

I know many people will say things such as "But people will stop simply buying stuff then while inflation is undergoing", well actually thats wrong. If the inflation was introduced with the proffesion nerf then this would go lovely with eachother.

This could even be automatic for all realms.
Example:


if there is 100.000.000+ gold on the server turn on the inflation mode that would drop down Gold rate to x1, increase prices by x5 etc.
Once we drop bellow 100.000.000 the prices will go back down to original and Gold rate drop would be back to x3


Why are people complaining?
Lets take Frostwolf as an example. This realm is barely working. Most of the stuff is either broken or half-working. Now Warmane thinks this way
"We will tell people that we are going to flush their gold, drop down reputation rates, drop down gold & proffesions, but thats all Okay since we will push few patches that will fix existing bugs".
Can you see the problems? First they are telling people about the nerf and **** while the server is half working.

There was a HUGE mistake by doing this. People wont look at it as in matter of "Oh cool, they will fix everything and then they will do this then. Great!", they are looking it this way "Oh my ****ing god, what the ****. You are trying to make this broken **** even harder. Too many things arent working and you want to now reduce our reputation rates and proffesions... **** off!".

That is the main problem as it goes to MOP atleast.

Regarding Icecrown, well I am not sure lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deathmastered

-It leads to high inflation number-wise, but not percentage-wise. If base price is 50k and it goes up to 75k, inflation is 50%. But so it is if from 100 the price is changed to 150 - again the inflation is 50%. So it doesn't matter. It's like number squish in WoD, the inflation remains.

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U forgot about the natural gold sink factors such as repair costs, vendor materials, projectiles, etc...
These things arent more expensive on high rate realms and therefore the gold sink is less.
The consequence is a higher inflation on high rate realms than on low rate realms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deathmastered

Also, AFAIK, daily quest rewards are incresed by gold rate, so worth of those doesn't change.

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As mentioned above the inflation is less on a x1 gold rates and therefore also daily quests lose less worth than on high gold rates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheSerbian

There is something called inflation.

Too much gold on the server?
Increase all prices by X.

In matter of few weeks, everyone will burn their gold most likely since ordinary stuff such as flying would be changed from 5k to 35k (OriginalPrice*RealmRate)

Even ordinary stuff such as food from vendors etc would be costly. With that in mind, auction house would go nuts for 2-3 weeks but it would burn everyones money down.

Once we reach the point where we can say that certain amount of gold is burned out then simply return the gold rate to x3 as it was planned.

I know many people will say things such as "But people will stop simply buying stuff then while inflation is undergoing", well actually thats wrong. If the inflation was introduced with the proffesion nerf then this would go lovely with eachother.

This could even be automatic for all realms.
Example:


if there is 100.000.000+ gold on the server turn on the inflation mode that would drop down Gold rate to x1, increase prices by x5 etc.
Once we drop bellow 100.000.000 the prices will go back down to original and Gold rate drop would be back to x3


Why are people complaining?
Lets take Frostwolf as an example. This realm is barely working. Most of the stuff is either broken or half-working. Now Warmane thinks this way
"We will tell people that we are going to flush their gold, drop down reputation rates, drop down gold & proffesions, but thats all Okay since we will push few patches that will fix existing bugs".
Can you see the problems? First they are telling people about the nerf and **** while the server is half working.

There was a HUGE mistake by doing this. People wont look at it as in matter of "Oh cool, they will fix everything and then they will do this then. Great!", they are looking it this way "Oh my ****ing god, what the ****. You are trying to make this broken **** even harder. Too many things arent working and you want to now reduce our reputation rates and proffesions... **** off!".

That is the main problem as it goes to MOP atleast.

Regarding Icecrown, well I am not sure lol.

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Inflation may or may not go down. Auction house will get inflated, but gold won't go down through it. Or the amount that will will be very small. Raiders often use food created by cooking and if the materials will be more expensive, the price will go up, but the gold won't be drown close to enough. Or, more the point, the only way to do this is to do it without any warning - so people wouldn't get all the items before the increase of prices.
Regards riding skill - it will badly affect ANYONE new to the server - they just came to play here, so where to get 35k? 5k for new is much, but 35k...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

U forgot about the natural gold sink factors such as repair costs, vendor materials, projectiles, etc...
These things arent more expensive on high rate realms and therefore the gold sink is less.
The consequence is a higher inflation on high rate realms than on low rate realms.


As mentioned above the inflation is less on a x1 gold rates and therefore also daily quests lose less worth than on high gold rates.

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The natural gold sink tools are there, but they are miniscule.
Vendor materials - I have leveled the profs I want and almost all food I buy is from AH cus of food buffs. If you increase innkeeper food's price it will barely affect me at all.
Projectiles (if you mean arrows or w/e) - since I play on Icecrown I buy all of them from AH as well simply cus enginnering ones are so much better.
Now repair costs do make a point, but this might only affect people who aren't in a guild. Why? Well, at least from what I've seen many guilds do on Icecrown, all BoEs are taken for gvault and then sold on AH. And this money is used for guild-sponsored repairs. Therefore, while many raids are made with BoE+PS reserved already, then all of them will be such just to get the gold for repairs. And then guild leaders just increase the amount of gold for repairs. So again, only new people w/o guilds will be affected. Ok, guilds will lose money, but... again, not too much.

no wrath of the lich king used to be good on here when every thing was high and 80 was simple to get.now, people with 80 characters are rude and have no interest in helping others. so do i want the lowered rate? no. because with lowered rates makes it even more difficult to get any gold from anywhere.

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Originally Posted by moltengurl

no wrath of the lich king used to be good on here when every thing was high and 80 was simple to get.now, people with 80 characters are rude and have no interest in helping others. so do i want the lowered rate? no. because with lowered rates makes it even more difficult to get any gold from anywhere.

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It will actually be exactly the same just instead of earning 1000gold you will earn 300-400gold (maybe less). Naturally prices will adjust to this. Its all going to be exactly the same as it comes to grinding gold.
Of course getting proffesion to max skill will be way harder but just get the proffesions before the nerf happens.

Do NOT forget with x1 proffesions being placed, you will have waaay bigger market for low level materials, therefore it will make grinding gold even easier!
You could just get enchanting, grind Stockade or such & sell materials you get from it on AH. Im not saying it will be the best method but its a gain.

The fundamental issue is that anyone who complains about the economy being "unhealthy" will ALWAYS complain about the economy being "unhealthy".
It does not matter what the prices are, what the gold rates are, none of that matters at all, the people complaining about "unhealthy economy" are simply incompetent at using the auctionhouse.

People like me are HAPPY about gold squish etc, not because it "helps" some people (it doesn't, they will actually find it harder post squish), no, we are happy because we understand the game economy and the psychology of different layers of players. Any change results in winners and loosers. And we are always the winners. And those who cry about unhealthy economies are usually the loosers.

The only time an economy becomes unhealthy is when certain items are duped or hacked... but even when primos got hacked/duped on molten, I just cut my losses as fast as I could, then made a totally ridiculous profit in the long run.

TL;DR: Stop QQ, L2AH, The AH-competent will always profit, the AH-incompetent will always think the economy is unhealthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by purr3g

The AH-competent will always profit, the AH-incompetent will always think the economy is unhealthy.

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which is why the upcoming changes seems highly unnecessary, especially other areas such as quest and instances needs fixing. but w/e makes them more donation money i guess

it was interesting watching old players being weary and new players taunting old players for being weary

What about adding a web shop system to use your gold on? Like the Vote shop, just with Gold. And add pets, mounts, gear and so on. People would use so much gold on that and there wont be a problem with people having to much money and bossing around the economy.

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Originally Posted by r0bgutt

What about adding a web shop system to use your gold on? Like the Vote shop, just with Gold. And add pets, mounts, gear and so on. People would use so much gold on that and there wont be a problem with people having to much money and bossing around the economy.

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Because that would nullify the other ways to get those items. You want this mount? Instead of farming this rep, or this instance... just farm gold and buy it. You want that gear? Just buy it! Why bother doing a raid?!

A gold sink can't be something you can obtain in other means. It has to be something that adds no value to the economy, but something people will use... E.G Transmog

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Originally Posted by FoliuS

Because that would nullify the other ways to get those items. You want this mount? Instead of farming this rep, or this instance... just farm gold and buy it. You want that gear? Just buy it! Why bother doing a raid?!

A gold sink can't be something you can obtain in other means. It has to be something that adds no value to the economy, but something people will use... E.G Transmog

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lottery like the one we used to have is much better, but that's just my opinion

besides, our opinions are worthless here anyways

x1 rates are adjusted so gold somewhat "drains out" of server(repairs, AH cut, vendor purchases), with x7... lots of gold just collecting dust in banks, over years there are millions on those who play AH... it took like 2 weeks to get 200k from 0... with "passing by" playing on AH for 20mins a day. Gold has no worth whatseover. From passive looting, like boss kills, random quests you get enough for all the sockets and enchants you need.

Don't bother with gold, this aspect of game does not exist.