The difference between Griefing and PVP?

Okay let me just start by saying that Icecrown and I imagine the other servers as well under warmane are cancerous toxic tumours, designed to make our lives a living hell when it should be a pleasant gaming experience that said, I have made several characters and each time, I come across the same problem over and over again, yes, I am talking about the fine line between Griefing and PVP, now don't get me wrong, I enjoy PVP as much as the next person, what I don't enjoy is me trying to quest and constantly being camped by the enemy, furthermore the enemy killing my mobs so I can't even progress after waiting 5 minutes to spawn because they've killed me that many times it's brought me to the forums to complain!

where is the line drawn from PVP to Griefing, it wouldn't even be that bad if the respawn timers didn't stack up, but no, I think collectively i've spent around 30 minutes dead in the same area and the time i've been alive is roughly 5 minutes, during that time, out of a quest to kill 10 mobs, I've managed to kill 1 or 2 before a rogue comes along, saps me and just watches me, doesn't kill me, no no, he lets the warlock slap dots on me and then a DK comes along and Icy chains me, this is the problem, it has to stop, I donated to this server because I genuinely enjoy world of warcraft and I enjoy WotLK, but it's getting to a point where I am unable to play due to griefing, you know what im getting at, the community is so toxic that it even stems into the forums, navigating a forum such as this, for a new person like me, is daunting, DO NOT POST ON GMS page, jesus christ, where do we go for help? we all acknowledge this server is cancerous, why can't the GMs do something to help the genuine players of this game and why oh WHY!?!?!?! are the PvPers not in a battleground, instead killing players that aren't even leveled to 80 whilst their own GS is around 6k or above where even if you did have a level 80, it can't do jack all because they usually come in droves of 10 or 15 man, but when I want to put together a raid, I can't even collect up more than 3 people. awesome jobs, absolutely awesome jobs. what do I do?

My question is this, is it punishable or a bannable offence to camp, kill quest givers and quest mobs, killing players to the point where even if they respawn after 30 minutes of seeing the ghost realm or respawning at a graveyard, they are slapped with sickness which upon makes them even weaker, thus easier to kill. when does the bull**** end?

EDIT***
Also to add to it, there is a Human Warlock called Soulpicker who has been camping me for well over 30 minutes now. I even have screenshots of him waiting for me.

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Originally Posted by Proterean

Disruption of gameplay is something we had to basically come up with to note a ban reason for absolute extreme cases. Ganking, relatively normal NPC farming and such are not extreme cases.

Think extreme as in so disruptive that it's causing massive hysteria and problems, possibly even to the extent of disrupting server stability. If we were to give an example, best would be someone managing to kill all the quest NPCs for low level zones to an extent where players can't level for days. As in someone committing a genocide in Elwynn Forest to the extent that no fresh player can do a single quest. A highly unlikely extreme case and even this would go under careful examination by the GM team.

It's not a ban reason you'll see often announced. Keeping this thread open, in case you have other questions.

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from http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=368452

only thing you can do is either switch zones or log out for a bit.

Thank you Skuddy, I was unaware that the gaming community basically sat with their asses firmly in the air for consecutive butt****s, Ugh I hate this game even more now, can solidly say I wont be donating ever again, especially when something as infuriating as this happens, yet they get banned for stealing a piece of loot. Unbelieveable!

out of curiousity what zone are you leveling in?

I'm questing in Scholazar basin, but I am leaving this area as luck be have it they were distracted killing others so I managed to slip in and pull a mob, 1 by 1 I got there in the end, but it still doesn't drop the fact that the moment someone sees a enemy their dicks get hard. if it helps im Horde, im a Lv78 Deathknight but like I said, im leaving this area because it's just too damn hostile.

Yeah, it really is too hostile. Sholazar Basin, and the Nesingwary quest hub in particular, is the go-to spot for players in your level range for quests. As a result, it's a really popular spot for gankers.

ya the basin can be a pain. i just leveled 1 of my alts there the other day and it sucked, and that's being a druid with swift flight form and stealth as a cat. i'd try to do some quests in ice crown maybe.

personally can't say anything against ganking in general, as i do it often enough. i do however dislike campers.

for future reference if you ever decide to level an alt, http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Zones_by_level_(original) shows you the levels roughly for each zone, so you can easily pick a different 1 if you get camped again.

Holy smokes! some Orc rogue just came out of nowehere and merc'd the guys killing me, I managed to actually escort this demolition women out safely,
thank you Skuddy i will use this map in the future, I have a lock Lv40 that im leveling up to counter some of the pains that keep killing me

One advice I can give you: never ever level in Sholazar Basin. The ONLY zones that should matter to you are those that give reputation to any of the major factions. This means you should ignore Sholazar Basin, Howling Fjord, and Grizzly Hills. If you're leveling there, you're basically just wasting your time because you will (most likely) go through these other zones anyway...

I can't remember the last time I leveled in Sholazar. I think it was retail or something like that when I was a complete noob and knew nothing about WotLK factions. Sholazar Basin is just a useless zone, that's all. The only two things it has are the Nesingwary achievement chain and the two minor factions which give trash rewards, unless you're masochistic and want the green proto-drake.

But then again, from your description you do sound a bit masochistic...

My leveling path on Icecrown is usually: Borean Tundra (into Coldarra ASAP), then Dragonblight (into the Wyrmrest Accord questline and the dragonshrines), then Zul'Drak (Argent Crusade + Knights of the Ebon Blade), then Icecrown (more Argent Crusade + Knights of the Ebon Blade). By that time, I will be 80lvl (even on x1) and be at least Revered (Honored on x1) with all of the major factions, bringing me to 2.9k GS as soon as I hit 80. A couple of cheap items from the AH and I can queue for RDF Hc after 1-2 hours of reaching 80lvl.

Meanwhile, the average noob would barely be 1.5k GS, begging people for FoS/PoS boosts, organizing ICC trash runs with reserved items, wasting time on Normals, and complaining how hard it is to gear up on Icecrown.

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Originally Posted by taralej

One advice I can give you: never ever level in Sholazar Basin. The ONLY zones that should matter to you are those that give reputation to any of the major factions. This means you should ignore Sholazar Basin, Howling Fjord, and Grizzly Hills. If you're leveling there, you're basically just wasting your time because you will (most likely) go through these other zones anyway...

I can't remember the last time I leveled in Sholazar. I think it was retail or something like that when I was a complete noob and knew nothing about WotLK factions. Sholazar Basin is just a useless zone, that's all. The only two things it has are the Nesingwary achievement chain and the two minor factions which give trash rewards, unless you're masochistic and want the green proto-drake.

But then again, from your description you do sound a bit masochistic...

My leveling path on Icecrown is usually: Borean Tundra (into Coldarra ASAP), then Dragonblight (into the Wyrmrest Accord questline and the dragonshrines), then Zul'Drak (Argent Crusade + Knights of the Ebon Blade), then Icecrown (more Argent Crusade + Knights of the Ebon Blade). By that time, I will be 80lvl (even on x1) and be at least Revered (Honored on x1) with all of the major factions, bringing me to 2.9k GS as soon as I hit 80. A couple of cheap items from the AH and I can queue for RDF Hc after 1-2 hours of reaching 80lvl.

Meanwhile, the average noob would barely be 1.5k GS, begging people for FoS/PoS boosts, organizing ICC trash runs with reserved items, wasting time on Normals, and complaining how hard it is to gear up on Icecrown.

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i feel extremely stupid right now for never thinking of doing this. i always farmed rep once i hit 80.

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

i feel extremely stupid right now for never thinking of doing this. i always farmed rep once i hit 80.

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Glad I enlightened you, mate ;)

Still, those 3 zones I mentioned do have their merits.

- Sholazar Basin has the third, last part of the Nesingwary meta-achievement, two sub-factions, and the very important lore-wise chain about the titans.

- Grizzly Hills has the Ursoc chain, and the first part of the meta-achievement Guru of Drakuru. It also contains Blizzard's failed attempt of wPvP, but let's not talk about that.

- Howling Fjord is, in my opinion, THE most beautiful zone in Northrend with nice lore and an absolutely stunning scenery, and zone music.

Too bad that none of these 3 zones has a quest hub to any of the major factions, really.

The reps are important, however I feel gettin to level 80 asap would benifit you more, reps can be gotten at 80, seeing as you will be 80 for a very long time. I do agree with both you guys on staying away from SB, however HF, GH, DB, and onto SP is the usual path I take and rarely get ganked till I try for the arena quest chain to go from 79-80... less rep, but way less gankers.

Mate, I'm ready for RDF Hc within hours of dinging 80. I think my record was half an hour: got 80, learned my spells, reset my talents, bought cheap AH items, equipped all rep items I got, relogged and queued up. Boom.

Meanwhile, if you just rush to 80, you would need at least 2 more days of backtracking and low-level questing for something that you could've done before. You level slower by around 20-30% but you don't waste hours, even days of doing reps when you could be doing RDF Hcs already. Out of all these places I mentioned, Coldarra is the only hostile one. That place is cancerous but it contains huge amounts of Kirin Tor and Wyrmrest Accord rep as well as the Nexus quests. The rest - I barely meet anyone, even from my own faction.

OP, you're not entitled to any piece of contested content. No matter how much you donated or how new you are, once you put yourself in a position where you are able to be attacked by enemy players, you have to be aware of that and accept the risks like everyone else. If you notice that an area is being heavily populated by enemies and the odds are against you, you can do the revolutionary act of going to a different, less populated area like the people in this thread suggest instead of staying in the same one and getting killed repeatedly until you become the author of this week's ganking thread.

The difference between PvP and griefing is blurry as griefing is by definition PvP, it's just PvP with the very particular intent of pissing off someone or a group of someones, which can be accomplished in a variety of creative ways, not all of which involve killing the target. Sometimes it's more satisfying to throw them in a ditch, only to have them realize that there's only one way out and that way is blocked by the same sadistic individual that just threw them in, waiting to give them a serious case of deja vu. Not that there's any particular purpose to even bother differentiating them, as both are fully allowed and carry no threat of punishment.

Yeah it sucks, but that's how PVP servers have always been, especially in Retail which won't be true anymore when Battle for Azeroth launches. However, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy doing World PVP sometimes. I also do agree that Warmane has a pretty damn toxic community, but I've also met cool people on Icecrown (where I currently play) which has prevented me from completely abandoning this server. Hell, there have even been people who just go out of their way to deter gankers just because they have nothing better to do.