Is rogue weak?

I wanted to start leveling rogue but what i read and heard from other players was:

-class has very low playrate
-are not sought after for raids low utility (only tot)
-low survival
-need 6k gear to be good ,still outclassed by many
-and one of the worst classes of wotlk

thats what my guildies said to me when i said i wanted to reroll rogue.
Please prove them wrong i really like the class but i like being strong too.

(sry for bad english...)

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Originally Posted by filippapic

I wanted to start leveling rogue but what i read and heard from other players was:
-class has very low playrate

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Every half decent guild runs 25 mans with at least 2 rogues

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Originally Posted by filippapic

-are not sought after for raids low utility (only tot)

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+4% Physical damage says hello, Expose armor says hello(if warriors're trash) etc..

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Originally Posted by filippapic

-low survival

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Highest survival. CoS, Feint, Evasion, Vanish, ToTt(yes tott it rips threat yes), gazillion of hard cc

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Originally Posted by filippapic

-need 6k gear to be good ,still outclassed by many

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Needs brain-cells, proper gear/talents/gems and rotation to be good. No class is outclassed

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Originally Posted by filippapic

-and one of the worst classes of wotlk

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Every class is good. Rogue is one of the best imo

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Originally Posted by filippapic

thats what my guildies said to me when i said i wanted to reroll rogue.
Please prove them wrong i really like the class but i like being strong too.
(sry for bad english...)

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Tell them to L2P. You should gquit that guild.

Also, being a "frog in the well" is not recommended nowadays.

Feel honored for getting advice from rogue like you.Your [Guide] Combat Rogue - The top kek DPS, In depth guide is what made me want to start rogue from the start.Leaving the guild as soon as possible.

Combat rogue is one of the best dps specs out there.

Muti rogue is close in dps but doesn't buff the raid in any unique way compared to Combat -though you can have a longer ToT duration because of having 1 optional glyph slot.

If you play both specs right you can be top 5 dps on a lot of fights -but Muti has more fights where it performs worse compared to a combat rogue.

I like rogue enough that I've geared a bis Combat and I'm in the process of gearing a second one as Muti. Both specs are fun, and you'd be surprised how big of an impact Tricks can have (especially on fights like LK where raging spirits need to be killed quickly during transition).

I think if you want to main a rogue then there's nothing wrong with that. It's a useful class with good dps and a load of utility.

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Originally Posted by filippapic

I wanted to start leveling rogue but what i read and heard from other players was

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Originally Posted by filippapic

thats what my guildies said to me

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Fluffy did a really good job at tackling all the points raised, so I'll just offer a bit of an advice.

Please take anything you hear from random players in-game with not one, but two grains of salt preferably.
Even though this expansion is so old now, it's astonishing as to how misinformed or plainly ignorant people are about things.
Find and pick your sources, and make sure they're trustworthy before letting them affect your judgement.

PS: Read your talents! All of them, and the spells in your spellbook! Half the 'arguments' your guildies raised can instantly be torn down just by linking Feint/ Cloak of Shadows / Evasion / Tricks of the Trade and Savage Combat, and that's not even half the things rogues have in their arsenal.

First of all i completely agree with fluffly's points

Second think of the people who think rogues are trash, that they probably had a really bad time when leveling from rogues.

Rogues are easily top 3 in raid DPS and easy as **** to play.

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

+4% Physical damage says hello, Expose armor says hello(if warriors're trash) etc..

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Only prot warriors have to stack sunders, not fury or arms, and u dont see lots of them as dps do you ?

Why wouldn't any warrior stack sunder on the boss?

If you are under the impression that having 100% arp means you ignore all of the boss' armor, you're wrong.
Even if it were the case, Sunder provides a raid-wide physical damage 'buff', so I don't see a reason to forego it.

Spoiler: Show

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Armor Penetration Rating
Armor Penetration Rating effectively increases the damage dealt by most of your attacks by reducing the damage reduction incurred from a target’s armor. Every 13.986 points of armor penetration rating grants you 1% armor penetration. This percentage reduction is not applied to your target's total armor, but rather a part of it. Due to game balancing mechanics, a certain amount of a target's armor cannot be affected by the reduction. The maximum affected armor that can be removed is referred to as the "ArP effectiveness cap".

Armor Values and Damage Scaling

Debuffs	Boss Armor	Damage done 0% ArP	Boss Armor with 100% ArP	Damage with 100% ArP
None	10643	58.87%	2017.83	88.30%
5SA/Expose Armor	8414.4	64.42%	498.77	96.83%
5SA/Expose Armor,FF	8088.68	65.32%	314.95	97.97%
5SA/Expose Armor,FF,ST	6470.94	70.18%	0	100%

SA = Sunder Armor
FF = Faerie Fire
ST = Shattering Throw

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Originally Posted by Flaterwick

Only prot warriors have to stack sunders, not fury or arms, and u dont see lots of them as dps do you ?

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Originally Posted by Sky

Even though this expansion is so old now, it's astonishing as to how misinformed or plainly ignorant people are about things.

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What Sky said to you it goes to you directly. Every warrior who's GOOD'll use Sunder armor. Just look at Blood Oath , TFK etc.. who do you think is keeping up the sunders eh?

Pls don't gief such weightless and clueless statements my dear frog in the well, let alone feed such miss information to new plebs it's getting really annoying.

So yes every warrior that's not using sunder armor is garbage to me. It's flat ~-10% raid physical damage for no reason. So yeah Expose armor is a superb finisher in every low,casual etc.. guild and in pug rejds since furry/arms warriors're almost always worthless.

Rogue weak? WAT?? I think the most popular class in game! One of top DPSers. He said weak.. Hunters -> pls killshot OP.
Also if serious: Just try to play, and don't ask people. Rogue got his own play style. If you like it, you will NEVER play other classes. GL in choice!

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Originally Posted by Flaterwick

Only prot warriors have to stack sunders, not fury or arms

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This hurts on multiple levels

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Originally Posted by Flaterwick

Only prot warriors have to stack sunders, not fury or arms, and u dont see lots of them as dps do you ?

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Noob level greater than 9000.

Error.

System overload.

Cannot compute.

leave ur guidl thx

Also, one thing to take into account is that Rogues scale very hard with group buffs. More so than other classes I think, not entirely sure? But from what I have noticed rogues tend to get the largest dps boost out of buffs than other classes.