Frost DK early PvE guide: pre bis & tier 7.

update: Tier 8 BIS: https://imgur.com/a/lRemupn

ONLY DPS MACRO YOU NEED: (Open to suggestions here, I really never used macros because on some servers you can toy with your UA / BT manually and achieve a free obliterate once per minute, EXAMPLE HERE. However on Warmane, I just use the macro.)

#showtooltip Unbreakable Armor
/use Blood Tap
/use Unbreakable Armor
/use 10
/use Blood Fury

/use 10 would be your engi gloves. Remove the Blood Fury line if you are not an Orc.



I'm taking the time to make this write-up because I see DKs improperly spec'd & geared constantly on fresh servers. This guide is for realm launches & tier 7 frost DK raiding.

This guide will cover 1) pre-bis, 2) basic spell priority, 3) talents/glyphs/consumables/professions, and finally 4) your bis items. The spell priority is the single most important thing to understand if you wish to be an excellent frost DK in early raiding.

1) pre-bis:

helmet --> Spiked Titansteel Helm (blacksmith craft)
neck --> Pendant of the Outcast Hero (heroism badge vendor) [This item is your lowest priority pickup from the badge vendor.]
shoulder --> Sprinting Shoulderpads (Old Kingdom HC) or Snake Den Spaulders (Gundrak HC). Depends how much you value expertise.
back --> Cloak of Bloodied Waters (Gundrak trash mobs).
chest --> tier 7 chest (heroism badge vendor)
wrist --> vengeance bindings (blacksmith craft)
gloves --> tier 7 gloves (heroism badge vendor)
belt --> Sharp-Barbed Leather Belt (Utgarde Keep HC)
legs --> Staggering Legplates (Utgarde Keep HC)
feet --> Death-Inured Sabatons (Ebon Blade reputation vendor - exalted)
ring1 --> Hemorrhaging Circle (Gundrak HC)
ring2 --> Titanium Impact Band (jewelcraft BoE) or Mobius Band (CoT Stratholme HC)
trinket1 --> Mirror of Truth (heroism badge vendor)
trinket2 --> Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood (Nexus HC) or Incisor Fragment (Drak'Tharon Keep HC) depends if you enjoy hit or innate AP more.
weapon1 --> Reaper of Dark Souls (Ebon Blade reputation vendor - revered) [Krol Blade and Titansteel Bonecrusher are options here]
weapon2 --> Reaper of Dark Souls (Ebon Blade reputation vendor - revered) [Krol Blade and Titansteel Bonecrusher are options here]
sigil --> Sigil of Awareness (valor badge vendor, on some realms its possible to rush this item pre raid, probably not on warmane.) If that's the case, then just get the ****ty heroism badge sigil.) You can purchase an even ****tier sigil in Grizzly Hills to boost your ilvl somewhat to queue heroics.

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2) spell priority: (KM = Killing Machine, FS = Frost Strike, etc.) This priority list works perfectly fine in tier 8 too.

blood subspec frost DKs do not follow a rotation, we follow a spell priority. below I will write out a basic priority list. in low gear (pre bis) you can afford to prioritize KM+FS over obliterate, as they hit around the same in this gear. when you upgrade your weapons and get some other pickups (Sigil of Awareness), then you will begin to rigidly prioritize obliterate > KM+FS.

1. maintain diseases
2. Oblit / [FS if KM and nearing runic power cap] (discretion based, ideally you dont encounter this often if you expertly manage RP)
3. FS if KM
4. FS without KM if RP <72ish
**less important stuff below. be certain you are not doing this **** with oblit runes / km up / near RP cap with upcoming oblits.**
5. Rime without KM (near expiration ideally. this takes lower priority than #6 if you have really low crit >25%)
6. Extra Pestilence (discretion based. you can refresh pesti often if you have self buffs rolling/stacking. ie: greatness is going to expire in 1 second, you might want to consider pesti because those diseases will snapshot your greatness.)
7. Horn
8. Blood Strike

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3) talents, glyphs, raid consumes, and professions: Click this link to see talent & glyph build.


blood subspec is best in tier 7 and tier 8. if the link doesnt work you can armory "Cope" or "Affa" for talent setups.
guess now is a good time to say your bis professions are JC + Engineer.

Your best pre-pot is going to be Indestructible Potion. Indestructible pots give you about ~100 attack power for 2 minutes, coupled with the blood subspec talent "Bladed Armor". During execute phase on a boss, wait for some nice CDs & ICDs to line up such as Unholy Strength + Unbreakable Armor + Greatness, then use a Speed Potion.

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4) bis: with this gear setup, you are able to gem full strength for maximum attack power. You can change out the bracers I've listed below for Bracers of Unrelenting Attack if you dont care about having 20 expertise. I consider expertise cap a luxury and don't feel it's required until you are able to itemize it naturally, so until I'm full bis I generally wont gem for expertise.

24 expertise, 5.79% hit, 27% crit unbuffed. 3795 attack power unbuffed.

helmet: obsidian greathelm (os25 2d)
neck: favor of the dragon queen (sapphiron - naxx25)
shoulder: tier 7.5 shoulder (badge vendor or naxx 25)
back: drape of the deadly foe (kel'thuzad - naxx25)
chest: tier 7.5 chest (naxx 25)
wrist: bracers of the tyrant (faerlina - naxx25)
gloves: tier 7.5 gloves (os 25)
belt: girdle of chivalry (grobbulus - naxx25)
legs: tier 7.5 legs (naxx 25)
feet: sabatons of sudden reprisal (anub - naxx25)
ring1: circle of death (sapphiron - naxx10)
ring2: ruthlessness (naxx25)
trinket1: fury of the five flights (os 25)
trinket2: darkmoon card: greatness (inscription BoE)
weapon1: angry dread (noth the plaguebringer - naxx25)
weapon2: angry dread (noth the plaguebringer - naxx25)
sigil: sigil of awareness (valor badge vendor or heigan - naxx25)

i'll add if you want to see gameplay vods of Frost DK with this gear & priority, the link is https://twitch.tv/milfhunters1

posted on wrong acc but i am the OP

Ive played with this dude many times, and he knows he's talking about. id suggest passing on this to your DK friends to help them become an ultimate pumper. thanks Krule great post!!

+1

Many thanks for this Cope!

Do you by any chance have any BiS list for T8 as well as T8 HM for frost?

Best regards,
Casius

Hello fellow blue-eyed friends,

Just saw the post and I really like the idea of making a thread that would have a BiS list for every tier, especially on a rapidly progressive server. I didn't want to make another thread so maybe at some point this can be amalgamated to a true one-stop-shop.

Since someone asked for an Ulduar BiS list here's my proposition, along with a few comments on the choices made:


Helm: Warhelm of the Champion From Thorim 25 HM
Neck: Strength of the Heavens From Algalon 10
Shoulder: Valorous Darkruned Shoulderplates From Algalon 25
Cloak: The Frost Lord's Battle Shroud From Ahune (Midsummer event) or Drape of the Skyborn From Algalon 25
Chest: Valorous Darkruned Battleplate From Hodir 25
Bracer: Armbands of Bedlam From Mimiron 25 HM
Gloves: Gauntlets of Ruthless Reprisal From Freya 25
Belt: Belt of Colossal Rage From Iron Council 25 HM
Legs: Plated Leggings of Ruination From Flame Leviathan 25 HM
Boots: Sabatons of Lifeless Night From Algalon 25
Ring 1: Seal of the Betrayed King From Yogg Saron 25 HM
Ring 2: Sif's Promise From Thorim 25 or Crazed Construct Ring From XT-002 25
Trinket 1: Comet's Trail From Algalon 25
Trinket 2: Darkmoon Card: Greatness From Darkmoon Faire (Nobles Deck reward)
Weapons: Caress of Insanity From Yogg Saron 10 HM
Relic: Sigil of the Vengeful Heart From XT-002 25 or 19 Badges of Conquest



To echo the original post, i believe that the talent choices and stat priority stated above will be the same for Ulduar. I selected the items based on the following priority:

Hit (melee) > Expertise > Strength > Haste > Crit > Armor Penetration > Spell hit ------> Follow this stat priority on the way to the full set.


How close are the essential caps?
The set is designed so that you don't have to socket/enchant a single item with Hit/Expertise so you can go all out on them juicy red gems. Your hit will be capped at 226 or 230 respectively. Your expertise will be capped at 160 or 157 respectively.

Why not cap spell hit?
With 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel you will need 5% hit or 164 hit rating. To achieve spell hit cap (17%) you will need to drop 3 points from Dark Conviction and put them in Virulence. In combination with Misery/Improved Faerie Fire on a boss, you will need a total of 289 rating to achieve this. In my opinion this is not worth the trouble and will result as a net DPS loss in this patch. If you do decide to do it, do it only as a Draenei.

Expertise?
You need a total or 26 expertise or 144.6 expertise rating from gear. This will be easily overachieved with the items above.

Why not go for 4set Tier 8?
From experience on Lordaeron when it was progressing, it will be a DPS loss. To take full advantage of the 4set bonus you need gear with armor penetration as priority. You will lose strength, haste and still will not have a reasonable amount of arpen to make it worth while. The set is entirely different and you will literally need to re-gear if you have any regrets along the way. Trust me, don't do it to yourself.

Why do some "BiS" items have options?
As of yet, we don't know if and when the cloak form the Midsummer event will be available during Ulduar. If it is, it is most likely BiS. If not, choose the other cloak and cap expertise with the proposed ring.


To conclude, this by no means has to be the final version of the set. If you have any suggestions, I'll definitely amend it. Hope this helps.

https://imgur.com/a/cq6Xm24
I didn't want to start a new thread or look the old one that discussed these differences, so I will post it here with another comment regarding gear after that.
In the pic with Sigil of the Vengeful Heart, I used Blood subspec.
In the pic with Sigil of Awareness, I used regular Unholy subspec.

I had another attempt where I used Unholy subspec and Sigil of the Vengeful Heart that yielded same 840k dmg as Blood subspec did.

Overall Blood subspec seems to be more noob friendly, meaning, you dont need to perfect the rotation and rune usage to maximise Obliterate count. On top of that, you are fed with extra runic power, so you can just mindlessly spam Frost Strike while your target has Frost Fever and do good amount of dmg.
This stops working with higher gear and more ArP especially with T10 2/5 bonus that rewards more Obliterates even more.

I am not sure how will this work on situations where you have to swap targets, where you are not sticky to the main target for a longer period of the time and which subspec wins in those situations.

This is also all on Icecrown, where batching is hitting harder, so its even harder to keep the Unholy subspec rotation going.
I will do some more testing on this subject as well since I need to make a working rotation for the new batching system.

Will post again or edit once more as I get more screenshots and maybe make some videos.

As for BiS ulduar gear list, I will only say that you are ignoring a lot of awesome agility items that have higher overall stats on top of extra gem slots.
As for stat prio, I would prio higher amount of Hit over ArP especially, and maybe some Haste, depending on the difference, meaning, if item A gives more Hit than item B gives Haste, while other stats would be more or less the same, going for Hit item might be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6hK...ature=youtu.be
With the delay/lag gone, the DPS of Unholy Subspec goes even higher. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnimo

https://imgur.com/a/cq6Xm24

As for BiS ulduar gear list, I will only say that you are ignoring a lot of awesome agility items that have higher overall stats on top of extra gem slots.
As for stat prio, I would prio higher amount of Hit over ArP especially, and maybe some Haste, depending on the difference, meaning, if item A gives more Hit than item B gives Haste, while other stats would be more or less the same, going for Hit item might be better.

---

Very vague on this one. What items exactly would you replace and for what? I did consider looking at some agility pieces in the neck, cloak and ring slots. However, I also wanted to be realistic and not add any leather pieces. They may be better, but waiting for all rogues, ferals, enh shammies and hunters to be done rolling them does not make it a very realistic list.


And you can cap spell hit easily by replacing the gloves with t8.5, you will lose cri/haste and gain crit/hit. This might be a good idea since you also get an extra socket.

Well I never got into the 239 item level gear, but from Herald of the Titans itemisation which is 226 gear and 232 weapons, most of the items that are "bis" should be Agility items, since they give more overall stats and gem slots.

You have Pendulum of Infinity, Brann's Signet Ring, Gloves of the Endless Dark, etc... That are not in the list for some reason, and are awesome items, regardless of if any Rogue or Feral needs them.
I get that both Rogues and Ferals cant use Mail or Plate, but if Shaman or a Hunter can need on those items, so can a Frost dk, Fury warrior, etc...
Its Wrath of the Agility King after all. :D

Also, if you want to take this to the next level, you should do the math if 4/5 is even worth the passive stat loss from 226 vs 239 items, cos both 2/5 and 4/5 from the Ulduar meta T8 seem to be weak.

Overall, at this meta you should go for the items that give most amount of stats overall, both in base stats and gem slots.
There is a lot of Hit/Expertise items so capping those stats should be top prio, and after that probably going for Haste since there is bunch of it in items.
Armor Penetration in small numbers is not that great, but if its in the items like Brann's Signet Ring its more than welcome. :D

Dont make a big fuss over items in these 3 months anyway, as ToC patch comes out, it will be SUPER easy to get the gear, and even easyer as ICC patch hits the server (this is an advice for more "casual" players on Frostmourne).

Oh those are real nice! I think for the moment I will replace the neck and gloves with your suggestions because they seem to fit perfectly into the overall set, including the spell hit cap. I will look into some more agility replacements when I get the time.

The ring I am not that crazy about. Now that we have 99% confirmation that the Ahune cloaks won't be available until ICC, it's a bit more awkward to get the expertise cap without losing out on better stats elsewhere.

I think the 4set is definitely not worth the loss anyway, but 2set is very nice. I can't exactly prove it in simulated numbers, but last time we progressed Ulduar you definitely felt the increase when you put it on.

I'll update the list over the weekend and maybe will make a new thread to keep it all the same format through the tiers. I do need to learn how to embed items links into posts, must have missed it in the commands section.

My suggestion would be to just go in Warmane Icecrown Point shop...
After you are there, look for all the items from plate, to agility, to w/e slot u want to fill in, and search the shop.
Highest ilvl in that shop is 239, aka the current Frostmourne patch. :D

helm: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45472
neck: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45517
shoulders: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46117
cloak: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45461
chest: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46111
wrist: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45611
gloves: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46043
belt: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45241
legs: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45134
feet: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45599
ring: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45456
ring: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45534
trinket: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=42987
trinket: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45609
weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46097
weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46097
sigil: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40207

With this itemisation you should be at 25.738 expertise which should be more than enough.
If you want that 26 expertise, 1x 10expertise10hit accurate ametrine should do the trick.

I have the itemisation for 226 items mainly, in case you are not in a guild that does 25m hard modes in the Frost dk guide tho, and ALL the items that you can get from that item level range.

The only thing that needs some further investigation is if 4/5 is worth it with the Awareness Sigil and proper max Obliterate usage rotation. Some Armor Penetration from Helm and agility 239 Ring, 226 Cloak, and maybe couple of more items could be useful here, but again, in these small numbers, no stat at that point wont make a difference.

If you prefer the "Blood subspec" go for Sigil of Vengeful Heart and this exact itemisation that will maximise melee and Frost Strike dmg done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gnimo

My suggestion would be to just go in Warmane Icecrown Point shop...
After you are there, look for all the items from plate, to agility, to w/e slot u want to fill in, and search the shop.
Highest ilvl in that shop is 239, aka the current Frostmourne patch. :D

helm: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45472
neck: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45517
shoulders: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46117
cloak: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45461
chest: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46111
wrist: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45611
gloves: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46043
belt: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45241
legs: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45134
feet: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45599
ring: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45456
ring: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45534
trinket: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=42987
trinket: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45609
weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46097
weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46097
sigil: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40207

With this itemisation you should be at 25.738 expertise which should be more than enough.
If you want that 26 expertise, 1x 10expertise10hit accurate ametrine should do the trick.

I have the itemisation for 226 items mainly, in case you are not in a guild that does 25m hard modes in the Frost dk guide tho, and ALL the items that you can get from that item level range.

The only thing that needs some further investigation is if 4/5 is worth it with the Awareness Sigil and proper max Obliterate usage rotation. Some Armor Penetration from Helm and agility 239 Ring, 226 Cloak, and maybe couple of more items could be useful here, but again, in these small numbers, no stat at that point wont make a difference.

If you prefer the "Blood subspec" go for Sigil of Vengeful Heart and this exact itemisation that will maximise melee and Frost Strike dmg done.

---

I disagree with a number of items on this bis list, namely the rings, gloves, and neck. Our Unbreakable Armor scales off of total strength and so I aim for strength oriented items such as Frigid Str of Hodir & Seal of the Betrayed King / Sif's Promise & Tier gloves. I've included an imgur link of my preferred bis at the top of the guide.

Agility off pieces are actually great, at the cost of hoarding strength you gain haste/crit and armor that helps Bladed Armor stack more. Haste EP value is still quite high this early. Having said that, the only item I really would consider using is the leather gloves from Algalon - those are beastly. The neck from Vezax HM is nice too.

In your list why would you use Shoulderpads of the Celestial Watch while going for tier gloves? They are crit/arp.... is it only for the sockets? You can just get tier shoulders for 2 set and something like Gauntlets of Ruthless Reprisal if you like plate that much or, as Gnimo suggested, get the leather gloves from Algalon 10man.

UA has a 33% up time, on top of that, if u lose 100 str from gear, u lose 20 str from UA which is basically nothing in comparison with other stats that you gain.
On top of that, If an agility item has 1 more Socket than strength item, there u get passive 20 str.
There is a good reason why Toskk's and Aldriana's are considered BIS, even tho there are Strength counterpart items.
Same goes for Naxx gear, Ulduar gear, ToC gear, and ICC gear, if an agility item gives more stats and better stats overall, you go for that item.

Also, going for full STR build at this tier might reduce your overall Crit, cos STR items in Ulduar tend not to have the passive Crit in them on top of everything else, which most definitely wont improve your DPS.
Overall it wont matter if you decide to go for the list I suggested or the list Krulekrule or Kapii or anyone else did, at this point of gear weapons with highest dmg on them are the most valuable thing you want to get.

Although the only thing I do not agree or understand is you still going for Blood Sub Spec.
Once you have this gear, there is no chance in hell that those talents are better if you know your ****.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gnimo

UA has a 33% up time, on top of that, if u lose 100 str from gear, u lose 20 str from UA which is basically nothing in comparison with other stats that you gain.
On top of that, If an agility item has 1 more Socket than strength item, there u get passive 20 str.
There is a good reason why Toskk's and Aldriana's are considered BIS, even tho there are Strength counterpart items.
Same goes for Naxx gear, Ulduar gear, ToC gear, and ICC gear, if an agility item gives more stats and better stats overall, you go for that item.

Also, going for full STR build at this tier might reduce your overall Crit, cos STR items in Ulduar tend not to have the passive Crit in them on top of everything else, which most definitely wont improve your DPS.
Overall it wont matter if you decide to go for the list I suggested or the list Krulekrule or Kapii or anyone else did, at this point of gear weapons with highest dmg on them are the most valuable thing you want to get.

Although the only thing I do not agree or understand is you still going for Blood Sub Spec.
Once you have this gear, there is no chance in hell that those talents are better if you know your ****.

---

I do enjoy haste, so I will consider what you and Kapii have said, I could def be overvaluing UA bonuses, unholy subspec is something that might perform well in Uld but there will always be encounters where constant movement and target swapping will favor blood subspec. Unholy sub is something I'd like to try on Algalon, or Ignis, but on encounters like Freya or Yogg I'm curious about yalls thoughts on blood subspec. As an example here is a vid on launch of Freya w/ blood subspec (sorry for the low quality) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/680733158

As I collect more BiS over time, I'll aim for some of these pieces you've listed and test them out.

The thing about Unholy VS Blood sub spec is that Blood increases DMG of Frost Strike mainly, Obliterate should do more or less the same, while Unholy has an advantage when it comes to melee DMG - Melee + Necrosis + Blood Caked Blade.

However, I am not sure if Haste would be supreme over small Armor Penetration, since as I switched to different trinket and a bit more Armor Penetration:
- https://imgur.com/a/yDhqJqg (might be the better trinket proc)
I got these results, that are a lot better than the previous I posted here (I even forgot to use Haste active on gloves from Engineering for the majority of the fight as u can see the up time on auras).
You can see that Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade did 90k dmg as Melee did 270k, which is A LOT.

At 4653 GS I have on that DK: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
I don't think I can get past 5100 to 5200 DPS on a dummy after 1 million dmg. Its a peak performance with those items from my point of view.

If you can, with the similar gear score, weapons and stat value from your itemisation, do more dps/dmg while playing Blood sub spec, please do post it here for others to see, since I can not get used to Blood sub spec rotation (or I am doing it right, but it feels wrong because its a lot easyer than the usual unholy sub spec thing I do), and I might be doing something wrong (I would try and practice more on it, but I don't have a lot of free time for it).
Maybe even recording a video of a 5min dummy run would be a good idea as a guide to everyone else playing on a similar server like Frostmourne.

Also, I did not run the list I posted here as "bis" trough any tests. It was just me going to Icecrown point shop and looking for most of the 239 items, getting the Expertise and Hit capped, and going for the rest that had highest item level and most gem slots in it.
On top of that, 2/5 T8 bonus doesn't seem good, so maybe going for Chest from T8 only and Algalon shoulders with 2 gem slots might be better.

There are also items like:
shoulders: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45245
chest: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45473
That I just noticed in the shop, and that are rather overpowered (higher item level, more gem slots than strength items) if you ask me.

I think there is a balanced list of 0/5 T8 with these kind of agility items that can work nicely on a Frost DK at this tier.

Sadly it will all go to waste as ToC patch hits the servers, and I personally think 3 months is a bit short period of time for those lists to shine. :D