Understanding Pay to Win

Revenue is necessary to keep these servers up.
If it cost money to keep them up versus generate profit to pay for the servers up-keep. It simply wouldn't exist in most circumstances.
That being said, it's necessary.
Now, I looked at this sites store.
Whether people like this or not...
When you donate to a cause, you don't receive material items, and if you do.. they are not going to be of value.
You donate to save the orc foundation, they send you a blanket with a logo.
Understand?
Warmane is offering items that bare more than cosmetic value, but are more effective than items you have access to as a regular player.
When you give items that have an advantage over standard items in exchange for a "donation".
It's no longer considered donating, it's considered as a paid service. Sorry not sorry.
But it's necessary to maintain these servers, It won't stop me from playing. I just am not afraid to be straight forward about what is in the food I am eating. I'm just saying it indeed is pay to win until they remove everything other than cosmetic items.

every regular player have access to all gear in game. It's up to you to make yourself valuable enough for guild to be next person for SM/Val shards collecting. So you are not straight forward, you are just crying out loud abot "unfair".

I have a complete full bis pvp and pve warrior, with shadowmourne. I did hc raids, arenas, sold golds for coins to buy some pieces, took me less than 1 year to complete it. Never donated anything for it.

Tell me again about that pay to win thing please

How far does 20 bucks get you? Should at least be enough for a hc Sts or DBW

I'm not criticizing their system, it is what it is. I just see people constantly bickering and arguing about what the definition of a pay to win server would be lol.
I wouldn't bother putting this out there if I had an issue with it, I simply wouldn't play on here. I'm actually surprised, none of your responses are ridiculous or ignorant. Actually worth reading and understanding. Totally necessary to keep one of the only genuinely WELL-OPTIMIZED servers alive, I forgot to mention that part.

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Originally Posted by Bangin7grams

Warmane is offering items that bare more than cosmetic value, but are more effective than items you have access to as a regular player.

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Sorry would you be more specific what items are those? I would really like to know, no in the context of what you wrote, I DEMAND to know!

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

Sorry would you be more specific what items are those? I would really like to know, no in the context of what you wrote, I DEMAND to know!

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He's implying regular players won't ever see Shadowmourne and LK 25HC weapons and that's the items that are offered on the store, among others.

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Originally Posted by Thorbjorn

He's implying regular players won't ever see Shadowmourne and LK 25HC weapons and that's the items that are offered on the store, among others.

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I am sorry but i am pretty casual player, I have just started entering random 25 pugs, so far I'm only 5 saronites behind what's required to complete the first quest.
Its not that regular players won't see, its that they want everything to be easy and fast, when in fact even now, 6 versions of the game (as of current 9.0.1) some wotlk stuff are still grindy as ****.

So from my point of view a pay 2 win would indicate something that someone got and i cannot get without paying any amount of money. In the context of my understanding about what pay 2 win neither HC items, nor Shadowmourne is considered pay 2 win.

Not to mention Warmane has actually made it possible for each player (not sure if donation is required) to sell gold for coins so every player in practice is able to earn coins to use them to buy the item he wants.

Now I understand why people would dislike being at a disadvantage, but hell there are people with max achievement points earned like year or two ago. Why is it so hard to accept that when joining such community you are already at a disadvantage and its basically of your own choosing. Most of the people i've seen typing how the server is pay 2 win are newly registered users, that just manipulate the term to their own needs.

Now because i do not mind conversations on this topic, but how can i take seriously a member who joined like 2 weeks ago. YES YOU - Bangin7grams - registered 28 October 2020. I know you already want to be full wrathfull and have SM, well play for it earn it like many people did and still do.

Yours Ogiboogy (character name)


@Thebjorn regular players won't ever see Shadowmourne and LK 25HC - No regular players can actually start farming this like in the first week if they do the time to find a raiding guild invest some time in that guild. I might be wrong but i define a regular player by someone who plays wow on regular basis. I went in my first ICC like a week after i got 80 level and I am a regular player.



Also i've seen a lot of people using the term donation in a really wrong way.
A donation to a charity would be considered - When you donate to a cause, you don't receive material items, and if you do.. they are not going to be of value.


BUT THIS IS NOT A CAUSE YOU **********************, this is WOW Private server. It is actually stated when you look on the tab of the site you entered.
When did private servers became a cause? You guys see where i am going, again he is manipulating the words and terms for his own gains.

So tiresome...

Spoiler: Show

https://i.imgur.com/Oa9s6HG.png

I wanna make myself clear first and say i dont dislike p2w on Warmane. There is clearly demand for p2w realm and Warmane is providing for the demand. My acount exist since 2010 and i have personally geared multiple character with coins. I also have zero sympathy for new players who complain about p2w for 2 reasons. First one is that server is too old so its normal there to be tons of BIS geared players. 2nd one is that Warmane provide no store realm where you can play, so whoever picked Icecrown over Lordearon cant complain later on about p2w.

That been said what is really annoying when people come up with this insane excuses that Icecrown is not p2w. There is nothing wrong with p2w since there is clear demand for it and the server need to have income. I dont understand why people are so unwilling to just admit it and own it, but instead come up with all kind of mental gymnastic to make it sound that its not p2w.

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

I am sorry but i am pretty casual player, I have just started entering random 25 pugs, so far I'm only 5 saronites behind what's required to complete the first quest.

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Great story. Keep pugging and come back here in 6 months to tell us did you got your shadowmourne or not, my guess will be you didnt. Good luck farming Shadowfrost Shards and killing LK as casual player who pug random groups.

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

So from my point of view a pay 2 win would indicate something that someone got and i cannot get without paying any amount of money. In the context of my understanding about what pay 2 win neither HC items, nor Shadowmourne is considered pay 2 win.

Not to mention Warmane has actually made it possible for each player (not sure if donation is required) to sell gold for coins so every player in practice is able to earn coins to use them to buy the item he wants.

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FIrst of all you do have to donate to be able to trade gold, so this alone put payment barier for regular player. 2nd on current rates of gold price you need to sell 500k+ gold to farm the coins needed for Shadowmourne. This is more then close to 3 times the gold cap you can possible have on 1 character. And then you have like 8 HC off-parts which avarage player will never have the chance to get, so thats like 600-700k more gold. Good luck farming and selling this gold. I will make guess and say that even if you dont, 99.99% of MMORPG players do concider this p2w.

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

Now I understand why people would dislike being at a disadvantage, but hell there are people with max achievement points earned like year or two ago. Why is it so hard to accept that when joining such community you are already at a disadvantage and its basically of your own choosing. Most of the people i've seen typing how the server is pay 2 win are newly registered users, that just manipulate the term to their own needs.

Now because i do not mind conversations on this topic, but how can i take seriously a member who joined like 2 weeks ago. YES YOU - Bangin7grams - registered 28 October 2020. I know you already want to be full wrathfull and have SM, well play for it earn it like many people did and still do.

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Problem comes when you are in disadvantage against people who have 2k echiev point and have never dont any raids on their characters., this is the frustratng part for most people. Especially if you are someone who play for months and echiev like 6-6.1k gs and then you see some guy who hit 80 last week been 6.8k GS. It complete deminish any since of character progression and make you feel like you are wasting your time. This is also why all p2w games on the west have failed. Except BDO, great game even if its p2w.

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

Also i've seen a lot of people using the term donation in a really wrong way.
A donation to a charity would be considered - When you donate to a cause, you don't receive material items, and if you do.. they are not going to be of value.

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So the reason why private servers use "donation" term is to free themself of any future responsability and so they dont get sued to profiting by selling someone else product. However we all know the reality is there is a store and people donate not to some charity for the server, but to buy items from the store.

I'll address one or two points as the rest is your own view and i presume it will stay like that till it doesn't.

Okey for shadowmourne i might never get it, i've come to accept that. Never stopped me from having fun in game and never gave me a reason to start whining how something is p2w just because i cannot push myself enough to obtain it.
Regarding the donation thingy thats what i said, just because it say donation doesn't mean its like a charity donation its just a legal term for something that is considered non taxable. Its a way to support your server.

The first answer he got was literally what everyone else say its not an excuse - every regular player have access to all gear in game. It's up to you to make yourself valuable enough for guild to be next person for SM/Val shards collecting. So you are not straight forward, you are just crying out loud abot "unfair".

There is nothing in what i wrote as an excuse, i don't excuse the server, i just don't mind their business model as its what has kept them alive for so long, i just hate all those short sighted guys that use terms of p2w as an excuse to them being either too noob, or too casual to actuall progress.


And to address your first sentence you clearly haven't really played pay2win mmos so far. Just because something is available for a lot of money or for a lot of grind doesnt make it pay2win. I don't state i'm too old i'm 28, but when we first saw the term pay2win it was for things that are obtainable only by donating money and there is no way you could ever grind it, nor by gold, nor by playing unlike all those HC items.

This sentence from the author is what actually triggers me most:

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Warmane is offering items that bare more than cosmetic value, but are more effective than items you have access to as a regular player.

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That statement there makes everything else he say irrelevant as its total lie.


Its all thats wrong with the mentality of today's wow players. Cuz you know we all have access to everything except maybe few flying mounts and tabards and those things don't really change the gameplay for the said player./Even you said it yourself you check guys achievement and you are already judging. Tell me what has some other person's achivs got to do with your own character progression. What you said as an example is just being a Small persona.


Like you guys should understand we all understand p2w as a different thing. Its not about arguing, its about getting to a common ground an understanding where communication will be actually constructive, not some whiners whining for easy gains.

In my years of gaming i've come across this terms:

Pay to progress
Pay to skip
Pay to play
pay 2 win is none of those terms.

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

Pay to progress
Pay to skip
Pay to play
pay 2 win is none of those terms.

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One could say pay to progress and skip are aspects of pay to win, and they would be right, partially.. sort of.
Icecrown has been up since 2015, people have had 5 years to train, learn, improve as well as gain and obtain items. Somebody who joined two minutes ago and bought all the BiS items, won't "win" anything. He lacks the 5 year experience others already have. However, another player who joined two minutes ago too, sees the other new player having all BiS items, he could consider it P2W.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

So the reason why private servers use "donation" term is to free themself of any future responsability and so they dont get sued to profiting by selling someone else product.

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If that was the case, why was "that-other-server," which people loved to say didn't sell any items, the one who got shut down by Blizzard? Why did others who also called it donation or similar terms get shut down the same? Despite this recurring myth, as I've said before, Blizzard's lawyers aren't fidgeting on the edge of their seats just waiting for a slip up where someone in the Staff calls it "sell" to take action, the use of the word donation being what keeps them at bay. The reality is pretty simple and doesn't goes into conspiracy theory territory. People looking at it as them buying doesn't make it so.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

If that was the case, why was "that-other-server," which people loved to say didn't sell any items, the one who got shut down by Blizzard? Why did others who also called it donation or similar terms get shut down the same? Despite this recurring myth, as I've said before, Blizzard's lawyers aren't fidgeting on the edge of their seats just waiting for a slip up where someone in the Staff calls it "sell" to take action, the use of the word donation being what keeps them at bay. The reality is pretty simple and doesn't goes into conspiracy theory territory. People looking at it as them buying doesn't make it so.

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The cease and desist letters are something Blizzard have to do to protect their IP rights. However i dont know of any example outside NA where they took legal actions against pservers and it dont seem like there is any interest of going further then cease and desist letters. But if you actually start selling stuff which will be making a business out of their IP, Blizzard may start talking some action.

I don't know why I bother some times.