Miltiboxing.

I'm sure this was brought before me multiple times, but after some search I was unable to find anything besides statements like "multiboxing is ok", "multiboxing requires skill" etc. But can you please give me real arguments why this is fair and should be allowed? I mean you could say that blizzard allowed it, but the whole point of this was that you need to pay for each account if you play on official server, so of course they are not interested in banning multiboxers. But here on warmane you can create as much account as you want for free, so what is your reasoning? Blizzard often said that everything that is not possible to do with just a pair of hands is not allowed, such as fishingfarming bots, which do things automatically without a player. But how is multiboxing any different from just botting? It's literally a program that mirroring player input. Can you possibly control 5 characters with a 5 keyboards at the same time without a second of delay without this software? I don't think so. Yet it considered fair for some reason. The statement that multiboxing requires skill is also laughable. If a person is capable to find this server and download a game client he already most likely will be able to download multibox software without any problem from a literally first google result which is ironically lead to warmane forums lol. And if we talk about ingame usage skill it's even more pathetic. Do you really think that it's requires skill to use your most powerfull spell in a span of 0.5 sec which originally was intended to be used once in a while since is so powerful and thus oneshot almost anyone? 5 Rogues can use ambush and you can do absolutely nothing versus this. There is literally no counterplay to this. Of course you can say that people can do it and without a miltiboxing. YES THEY CAN, but the thing is that if they are different people the human factor is kicking in. Someone could missclick, fail timing, their latency can be different and so on. This is more or less fair. But when the software is controlling 5 characters there is no room for mistake, latency delay, missclick and such which GIVES the multiboxer an unfair advantage over regular people. He just removing these factors from his game completely. So, I really want to hear a actual argumentation why is multiboxing is allowed especially on BGs. And please don't link me to the topic "uhhhh we limited multiboxing to 5" there was 0 proper argumentation related to my question.

Nah, I won't bother. Maybe someone else will, but not me. It's obvious you don't care about any argumentation. No matter what's said you already made up your mind and no argument will ever be "good enough" for you. At most you want to "show" that any argument is "flawed" - in your point of view - but you know what? It isn't going to change our policy on this, so it's an exercise in futility. If all the arguments around aren't enough, you can simply stick to this one: it's allowed because we decided to allow it on our servers.

Just be glad warmane changed it to 5 man teams, we used to have this https://i.imgur.com/GC8O0ev.jpg

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Nah, I won't bother. Maybe someone else will, but not me. It's obvious you don't care about any argumentation. No matter what's said you already made up your mind and no argument will ever be "good enough" for you. At most you want to "show" that any argument is "flawed" - in your point of view - but you know what? It isn't going to change our policy on this, so it's an exercise in futility. If all the arguments around aren't enough, you can simply stick to this one: it's allowed because we decided to allow it on our servers.

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Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I didn't say, but you're wrong. Yes, I came here with the opinion that multiboxing is unfair and not fun to play against, making it unhealthy. But I gave you some valid arguments with examples of why I think that way.
And your reply was what exactly?
"Uhh your experience is insignificant and you're so stupid because I don't like your opinion that I won't even bother talking to you".
Very nice indeed.

But what makes you think that I don't care about arguments when you haven't even given me one? Why are you threatening this like a personal attack on you or the warmane staff? I came here with my opinion, and I'm not even asking for changes, I'm asking for your reasoning, because I, who would have thought, want to know the reason.

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If all the arguments around aren't enough,

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Excuse me, what arguments?

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you can simply stick to this one: it's allowed because we decided to allow it on our servers.

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So you're telling me that community opinion (formed by individuals like me) doesn't matter and you and other staff can basically do whatever you want, I'm right?

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less. I came here to hear a reason why multiboxing is allowed and everything else is irrelevant and uninteresting.

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Originally Posted by kuroimato

Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I didn't say

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I'm not sure you understand what your above line means. I drew conclusions from your post.
Meanwhile, your own post... lol.

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Originally Posted by Disktrasa

Just be glad warmane changed it to 5 man teams, we used to have this https://i.imgur.com/GC8O0ev.jpg

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It's looks horrible, indeed, but I don't really understand why the logic "it was even worse before, therefore it's impossible to make it better than it is now and it's not worth trying" is valid

Any actual arguments? If not, please don't reply to this post, and make your "I won't bother" actually true, thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by kuroimato

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less. I came here to hear a reason why multiboxing is allowed and everything else is irrelevant and uninteresting.

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Yet there was rather lengthy post.

You paint multiboxing being super easy, why don't you do it yourself then?
Unfair advantage? In PvP? If 1 < 5, then 5 < 7. Speaking of unfair advantages: lvls1-79 < 80. You won't bat an eye when you kill a player 10 levels below yours, but you do so when a MB kills you with the same effort. It's like MB would bring safety from ganking/involuntary wpvp as who would challenge them. Then again, in all of my years here, I don't think I've seen a MB ganking low levels. I've only seen them at end game zones killing players of equal level. It's kinda funny isn't it.
Multiboxing is still niche activity.

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

Unfair advantage? In PvP?

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Actually yes. Multiboxers has advantage to switch five characters into one target almost instantly, dwindling enemy numbers quite fast. Even basic 5 druid stack are still powerfull enough to overheal burst damage and kill targets in a few seconds, let alone something like 5 DK.
4-5 multiboxers (25 players) could easily win wintergrasps agaisnt full 40 man raid, and after that camp graveyards.
To actually beat that setup you need a really good team, effort of multiple people. While for 5-account multiboxer need only one player.

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You paint multiboxing being super easy, why don't you do it yourself then?

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>How can you say the Sun is hotter if you haven't flown there and touched it?

First, in case you are confused by my arguments, let's imagine a situation where player 1 has the goal of killing player 2 and consider several possible cases. Let's say player 1 is a sub rogue and player 2 is an ench shaman.
In the first case, player 1 plays as usual using one character's arsenal. Statistically his chance of killing player 2 will be 50% on average assuming both players have the same skill level, classes are balanced and character level is the same.
In the second case, player 1 uses multiboxing and has 5 rogues under his control. I wonder what chance player 2 has to win if player 1 just walks up in stealth and presses "Ambush"? I'm guessing it's more like 0%.

Second:

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You won't bat an eye when you kill a player 10 levels below yours

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Why are you saying what I will do if you have never met me and have no idea how I play? In case you're wondering I don't enjoy killing players with a lower level than me, neither does multiboxing, because for me it just doesn't bring any satisfaction because I haven't overcome anything or achieved anything meaningful. It's like using a cheat code or aimbot, what's the point of winning in an unfair way?

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Originally Posted by kuroimato

Any actual arguments? If not, please don't reply to this post, and make your "I won't bother" actually true, thanks in advance.

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I can, but i wont cuz im gonna get banned tf out of here lol. For some reason they don't like when this being brought up in conversation. Trust me, the argument is as valid as it gets.
The one i won't get banned for is - this is just probably fun. Idk, in my eyes they are cursed derranged half-human half-alttab machines from the deepest depths of this earth but i guess everyone has their own ways of having fun who am i to judge.

The biggest problem i had with (besides it looking ugly as hell), was on FM3. Like, when i log on WG for tokens, i wan't to bomb the gates and grab my tokens. I don't want to play this stupid extra mini-game event called "Outjuke the moonkin multiboxer".

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Originally Posted by kuroimato

?

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You seem to have confused a question for an argument. Still.. have you tried it though? You must've since you say it's easy, and something that everybody can do. What's holding you back? Fight the fire with fire.

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Originally Posted by kuroimato

First, in case you are confused by my arguments, let's imagine a situation where player 1 has the goal of killing player 2 and consider several possible cases. Let's say player 1 is a sub rogue and player 2 is an ench shaman.
In the first case, player 1 plays as usual using one character's arsenal. Statistically his chance of killing player 2 will be 50% on average assuming both players have the same skill level, classes are balanced and character level is the same.
In the second case, player 1 uses multiboxing and has 5 rogues under his control. I wonder what chance player 2 has to win if player 1 just walks up in stealth and presses "Ambush"? I'm guessing it's more like 0%.

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How about if the1st case is the same. 2nd case it's not a multibox, it's a (premade) PvP team of 3? (Could go for 5, but why do so when 3 is enough). The end result is the same. Thus somebody killing another player with MB or friends is quite irrelevant. Nothing that the solo player could've done to change the outcome. The solo gets annoyed/salty regardless and makes a forum post about being ganked or how MB is unfair.

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Originally Posted by kuroimato

Why are you saying what I will do if you have never met me and have no idea how I play? In case you're wondering I don't enjoy killing players with a lower level than me, neither does multiboxing, because for me it just doesn't bring any satisfaction because I haven't overcome anything or achieved anything meaningful. It's like using a cheat code or aimbot, what's the point of winning in an unfair way?

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Didn't mean it as you specifically. Ganking is unfair. Killing with MB is unfair. A win is a win and people who want that rarely care about the means. It's just min-max to the biggest advantage you can get. Which is something all PvPers seem to strive for, or is it just a coincidence top arena teams are filled with humen with their racials. If you want fair PvP, those days are long gone.

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Originally Posted by CutterWizz

The one i won't get banned for is - this is just probably fun. Idk, in my eyes they are cursed derranged half-human half-alttab machines from the deepest depths of this earth but i guess everyone has their own ways of having fun who am i to judge.

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I'm not judging MB, everyone can do what they want, but only if it not gonna be a problem for someone else. Why do you think laws even exist? In our case MB is unhealthy and I said why. Have you ever met a person who has told you anything good about their experience with MB (don't count MB's themselves obv)?
It's like having a server where some people use aimbot and then some other people who don't want to play using aimbot come to the forums and say: "Hey, I'm getting constantly killed by aimbots, that's not fair!" and got replies like "lol, just use aimbot yourself", "I'm not gonna tell you anything, you are dumb, aimbot stays just because we want"

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

Still.. have you tried it though? You must've since you say it's easy, and something that everybody can do. What's holding you back? Fight the fire with fire.

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No, I never have, and I never will, because I don't find it fun, so why should I? If you think that is the correct logic, unfortunately it is not. Like I said, you don't have to experience everything first hand to form an opinion about something. Have you ever tried to touch the Sun? Have you not? Then why are you so sure that it's hot? Have you ever driven an F1 car? Why are you so sure it's difficult? Have you ever tried to kill a bear with a gun? No? Then why do you think it's easier than killing a bear with a knife? Should I continue?

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

How about if the1st case is the same. 2nd case it's not a multibox, it's a (premade) PvP team of 3? (Could go for 5, but why do so when 3 is enough). The end result is the same. Thus somebody killing another player with MB or friends is quite irrelevant. Nothing that the solo player could've done to change the outcome. The solo gets annoyed/salty regardless and makes a forum post about being ganked or how MB is unfair.

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Another example of flawed logic. In both of my cases we had a total of two people. And if we keep this in mind and for more clear example assume that there is no other people on the server right now, we will see the whole picture where player 1 suddenly has x5 resources in his hands compared to player 2. And this is unfair on the level of player vs player.
In your case, however, there are more than two people in total, and even if it makes it unfair from player 2's perspective, objectively it's not unfair because everyone is only using x1 amount of resources at the time.
At the same fashion being ganked is not unfair if characters are more or less on the same level. If it's 80s is ganking a 40s it's obviously unfair. If 40s is ganking a 38 or 41 it's fair. Because both players have roughly the same amount of resources.

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

Which is something all PvPers seem to strive for

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This only applies to multiboxers who for some reason think that if they want to multibox, then everyone else should accept it without question, but when someone says they don't want to play with multiboxers, their opinion is considered unimportant. You see what the problem is? I and many more people don't care if people multibox. Just the fact that someone is playing with a few windows opened at the same time is not make us lose our sleep. They can do whatever they want with their life. The problem is that they can do whatever they want when they want, but everyone else is forced to play with multiboxers without a choice. You can't go to some other WG without multiboxers when they can choose if they going to multibox or not.