Why are the raid quests so tedious? And why are there so many?

I am trying to understand why it needs to take 15-20x longer for us to complete our raid quests than it would be to just run a full Kara. It seems counter to the point of an instant 70 server to have way grindier mechanics. I can't imagine doing this every week. It's insane how much time you have to spend to get these done weekly unless you get extremely lucky.

Assuming every quest takes an average of 30 minutes which would be an insane pace, this would still take 7.5 hours to complete all of the quests.
On top of that, a lot of the quests encourage griefing.
Cap a WSG flag? Everyone just stands by the flag and doesn't help their own FC.
Cap 3 AB bases? Everyone just tries to cap the AB base and not kill the enemies so nobody ends up capping the base.
Cap a EOTS flag? Same situation, but not as egregious as the other two.
Win AB with 5 towers? With a premade with good players, it's realistic to get this, but even with a premade it could take a lot of games to get this done.
Win EOTS by +1000 pts? This one isn't as bad as the AB one, but it still has the issue of this could take multiple EOTS to complete. Assume you get it done on your 3rd try which is still pretty good in # of attempts - this will already be longer in EOTS than a full kara for 1 item.

A lot of the quests in the chain will take longer than a full kara. I don't get why it has to be so grindy on an instant 70 server.

Then you have quests like win 5x arenas in a row - this just encourages tanking mmr for an easy 5 free wins and smurfing. Why even have this in the first place?

Having the quest chain take XYZ amount of hours isn't really the biggest deal for myself (and friends). Obviously we would like gear faster and easier, but you can understand how it would be a bit counterproductive to the overall "life" of the server as well as BG/arena activity. So even if the chain takes a long time, I'd be totally fine with it as long as it's not mind-numbingly boring.

The biggest issue is that the bulk of the quest chain is BG-related. The quest chain takes 7.5 hours under ideal conditions, as you said, but 6 of those hours are *guaranteed* spent in BGs, which seems utterly insane for a server that was advertised as "an arena server". INB4 Obnoxious comes in here and says "ITS A PVP SERVER NOT JUST AN ARENA SERVER!!".

I have not encountered a single person on Blackrock (call me biased, call my friends biased, call the random people I talk to biased, whatever) that thinks the quests should remain this BG-focused.

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Originally Posted by alexjones

which seems utterly insane for a server that was advertised as "an arena server". INB4 Obnoxious comes in here and says "ITS A PVP SERVER NOT JUST AN ARENA SERVER!!".

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No, I'll just point out you're delusional on top of anything previously established.
https://forum.warmane.com/showthread...=1#post3235190

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

No, I'll just point out you're delusional on top of anything previously established.
https://forum.warmane.com/showthread...=1#post3235190

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Excellent response from an excellent mod

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Originally Posted by alexjones

Excellent response from an excellent mod

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And the truth shall set you free.

Can you guys take it to DMs? This is just spam in my thread and not contributing to the discussion.

Between your constant snide remarks to anyone who interacts with this forum, the only thing you've actually said about this topic is this (paraphrased of course):

"An increased ratio of arena quests to BG quests would cause people to wintrade (or otherwise abuse) at a higher rate, in order to earn gear easier"

Do you genuinely believe that? You just abandoned the other thread when I asked you to elaborate.

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

Can you guys take it to DMs? This is just spam in my thread and not contributing to the discussion.

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There isn't much of a discussion in the first place. You are complaining and asking why it works like this, when that has been explained even before Burning Crusade started in Onyxia. Blackrock is crossed with Onyxia, therefore progress will be made to simulate the effort and time as it would for someone gearing up doing PvE and dealing with grinding and RNG. It's made to take long by design, the aim is just for it to be a server where you progress alongside Onyxia, just exclusively with PvP.

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Originally Posted by alexjones

Do you genuinely believe that? You just abandoned the other thread when I asked you to elaborate.

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If you really can't see it, it isn't worth my time elaborating. BurgerMan himself sees it and mentions at the end of his post, and he is just talking about the current amount of arena-related quests, so I'm confident there's no hidden mystery for anyone not pretending blindness.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

There isn't much of a discussion in the first place. You are complaining and asking why it works like this, when that has been explained even before Burning Crusade started in Onyxia. Blackrock is crossed with Onyxia, therefore progress will be made to simulate the effort and time as it would for someone gearing up doing PvE and dealing with grinding and RNG. It's made to take long by design, the aim is just for it to be a server where you progress alongside Onyxia, just exclusively with PvP.


If you really can't see it, it isn't worth my time elaborating. BurgerMan himself sees it and mentions at the end of his post, and he is just talking about the current amount of arena-related quests, so I'm confident there's no hidden mystery for anyone not pretending blindness.

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No, I never said anything about wintrading. I said about losing on purpose to tank mmr to be able to do the 5 consecutive win quest. This isn't the same as wintrading at all. The current system you have is promoting tanking mmr which should show you there is a problem there.

It's not simulating similar effort/time is the problem. It's not even remotely close. I'm thinking that none of the server staff has gone through and actually done all the quests to experience how miserable this is vs running the raids. If the goal was to simulate similar time/effort why would it not be possible to complete all the quests in under 90 minutes?

I agree in that it isn't worth the time I guess - you are simply stuck in your belief and me in mine.

All I am saying is that every single person I have encountered on the server wishes it was more arena focused - you can take that however you want.

edit: talking to obnoxious ofc

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

No, I never said anything about wintrading. I said about losing on purpose to tank mmr to be able to do the 5 consecutive win quest. This isn't the same as wintrading at all. The current system you have is promoting tanking mmr which should show you there is a problem there.

It's not simulating similar effort/time is the problem. It's not even remotely close. I'm thinking that none of the server staff has gone through and actually done all the quests to experience how miserable this is vs running the raids. If the goal was to simulate similar time/effort why would it not be possible to complete all the quests in under 90 minutes?

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Welcome to visit us for onyxia, everything is very easy with us. I'm sure if you level up, dress up the character, farm gold, reputation, go 5 times to the raid to get DKP. Then you will definitely get the trinket or weapon you need, much faster than quests

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Originally Posted by suipklolka

Welcome to visit us for onyxia, everything is very easy with us. I'm sure if you level up, dress up the character, farm gold, reputation, go 5 times to the raid to get DKP. Then you will definitely get the trinket or weapon you need, much faster than quests

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Make a blackrock char finish all the raid quests post your /played and then we can talk.

quests that made players grief in bg should be changed someone suggested to swich some quests to Win 1 ab win 1 wsg that would be a very decent change for that griefing quests

I think Warmane could take easy measures that make it harder to abuse arena quests and make arena better over all.

The first step should be to make mmr dropping impossible. That can be easily enforced by giving a 15 min deserteur when a team doesn't enter the arena or leaves a arena match with zero dmg or healing done. It's insane that mmr dropping is still a thing in 2024!

In addition to that the arena quest could be smth like win against 5 different teams in 3vs3 and newly created teams don't count.

Yes, even with these changes it would be still possible to abuse the arena quests but it would be more difficult to do so.

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

No, I never said anything about wintrading. I said about losing on purpose to tank mmr to be able to do the 5 consecutive win quest. This isn't the same as wintrading at all. The current system you have is promoting tanking mmr which should show you there is a problem there.

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He called it wintrading; I said people would abuse arena quests to get easy completion and rewards. The only difference is you're only singling out one way it can be abused. Or are you going to say people wouldn't wintrade or use alts to win against themselves, that all you see them doing is losing on purpose to lower ratings?

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Originally Posted by BurgerMan6969

It's not simulating similar effort/time is the problem. It's not even remotely close. I'm thinking that none of the server staff has gone through and actually done all the quests to experience how miserable this is vs running the raids. If the goal was to simulate similar time/effort why would it not be possible to complete all the quests in under 90 minutes?

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Doing the same PvP you would supposedly be doing in a PvP server, except with goals now, is miserable? Interesting. Also, why 90 minutes? In what world do raids only take 90 minutes, from starting the organization to waiting for people to running and wiping and losing members and recruiting new ones and ending the raid and trying it all over again from the beginning, until you eventually manage to complete one, just to get the item you wanted ninja'd away, so you have to start over?

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Originally Posted by gabriel243

quests that made players grief in bg should be changed someone suggested to swich some quests to Win 1 ab win 1 wsg that would be a very decent change for that griefing quests

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This I consider a fair critic. Quests ideally should encourage people to play properly, not try to essentially do what would happen if even more arena quests were available.

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Originally Posted by Brutone

I think Warmane could take easy measures that make it harder to abuse arena quests and make arena better over all.

The first step should be to make mmr dropping impossible. That can be easily enforced by giving a 15 min deserteur when a team doesn't enter the arena or leaves a arena match with zero dmg or healing done. It's insane that mmr dropping is still a thing in 2024!

In addition to that the arena quest could be smth like win against 5 different teams in 3vs3 and newly created teams don't count.

Yes, even with these changes it would be still possible to abuse the arena quests but it would be more difficult to do so.

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Like you admit yourself, any such measures could make it more tedious or take more preparation, but it would still be abuseable for easy completion. That has to do with the nature of arenas, it being a couple characters vs. a couple characters, something that can easily be arranged, be with alts that anyone can create for free or with someone else helping. Battlegrounds are much more difficult because even with a premade or two, there will still be randoms who can report such cheating.