onyxia deserves its own battlegroup in wotlk

"something something constructive", "something something reasons"

No one likes nor wants to be attached to blackrock.
Like a poorly chosen marriage, its more painful to stay than to just pay her off in the proverbial divorce.


it is a fallacy that there is parody between the two player bases.
it is a fallacy that somehow "slow wait times" is reason enough to ruin the entire experience.
it is a fallacy that removing the ability for onyxia players to get ahead in gear is somehow not a driving force behind the many man hours we invest in it.

i accept that you refuse to split the battlegroup during TBC, but there is no logical reason to put us through this for WOTLK.
instead of making excuses, or simply ignoring the problem entirely.....just fix it?

blackrock wont miss us, please dont put onyxia through that again.
there is nothing wrong with admitting to a mistake.

Yeah, it was a very unpopular choice when they fused Blackrock with Onyxia in the early phases. Becasue it essentially spat on the efforts of people investing a lot of time and effort in gearing on Onxya for PvP, since Blackrock just got pieces of gear that required quite some effort to grind on Onyxia for free. Their reasoning about "slow-que" times is utter bull****. The PvP scene on Onyxia before the fuse was booming and it was absolutely glorious! Then they decided to just add Blackrock to the battlegroup. A lot of people quit after that, myself included. Rightfully so.

WotLK release would be a great time to split Blackrock and Onyxia.

Announcing that change with the release date would also attract more people.

W/o Blackrock PvP on Onyxia would be pretty much dead. No BG except WSG would pop up. 3s would be completely dead and the highest rated 2s team would have like 2k rating on season end.
I rather have unfair PvP than no PvP at all.

Better bad games than no games at all.

Edit : maybe split rewards conditions can add a sentiment of fairness ?

Example : top 0.5% of Onyxia's ladder get Gladiator title, instead of top 0.5% of shared ladder

ive heard this argument before, and it absolutely doesnt hold water. my proof?, the bgs are filled PRE blackrock addition when a person reaches that gear level.
meaning the wait times would improve if our better geared players were added back into their own battlegroup.

and even if that werent the case, i see plenty of people who owuld otherwise play more if their effort wasnt reduced to wasted time by having to play against people who dont invest that same amount of effort.

Onyxia is a PvE realm with a bit of PvP as side activity. When you remove Blackrock from the pool Onyxias PvP would be like Lordaeron before the cross-realm era. Means only WSG as BG, no 3s arena and same teams over and over again on 1800 rating in 2v2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brutone

Onyxia is a PvE realm with a bit of PvP as side activity. When you remove Blackrock from the pool Onyxias PvP would be like Lordaeron before the cross-realm era. Means only WSG as BG, no 3s arena and same teams over and over again on 1800 rating in 2v2.

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no then it would have been seen as a pve realm. you may not wish to do pvp but you would be in the minority the community for pvp on onyxia is healthy.

What is this argument "no blackrock = no battlegrounds" nonsense?
Before the merge battlegrounds were alive and well. All day round. Even AV.
Only after the merge it went to ****. People lost interest in BG's real fast. Lots's of Blackrock ppl AFK'ing. Chat turned real toxic.

I'll just say this: Blackrock characters fill the gaps to make a Battleground happen; if there were no gaps, there would be no Blackrock characters.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

I'll just say this: Blackrock characters fill the gaps to make a Battleground happen; if there were no gaps, there would be no Blackrock characters.

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im sorry, but they dont. point blank. this is 100% verifiable by the fact that bgs pop regularly for low geared onyxia players WITHOUT any players over 1500 gs. blackrock isnt even needed

if the argument is that all rbg games dont happen instantly then the problem in on the PVE side. because it takes 5 minutes to get a BG but an HOUR to get a heroic. its not even close. by that logic, onyxia is a pvp oriented server

100% verifiable that apples aren't oranges.
Do Blackrock players go into those low geared matches at all? Even if they did, you would be just proving my point.

About PvE, it's mind-boggling that I have to say this yet again, but Burning Crusade never had RDF, we left it active as a bonus since we're on a Wrath of the Lich King anyway, but most players know the dungeons need more skill and coordination to do than what you'll get 9 out of 10 times putting together a bunch of randoms. That is why the queues are long, people who know the game aren't using RDF, they are creating groups the old fashioned way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

100% verifiable that apples aren't oranges.
Do Blackrock players go into those low geared matches at all? Even if they did, you would be just proving my point.

About PvE, it's mind-boggling that I have to say this yet again, but Burning Crusade never had RDF, we left it active as a bonus since we're on a Wrath of the Lich King anyway, but most players know the dungeons need more skill and coordination to do than what you'll get 9 out of 10 times putting together a bunch of randoms. That is why the queues are long, people who know the game aren't using RDF, they are creating groups the old fashioned way.

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The short answer is that they solved a problem that didnt exist with a new more prevalent problem. if we have enough players for full games without our more geared players, then why would we need blackrock when we DO have them?

So no they dont go in those early games, and thats with the added pain of having none of our own players over 1500gs. and just imagine how many players you have lost on onyxia because of this ruined long term experience.. The reality is that without this hanging over our heads the pvp community on onyxia is more than healthy.

its not unpopular because we are asking for something we shouldnt. its unpopular because its a failed experiment. a bandaid for a problem that was never really that bad to begin with.

obviously there are times of day that are low population, but thats not a problem, thats just life. I dont hold it against the server when i cant find people to play with at 4 am. The short answer is that they solved a problem that didnt exist with a new more prevalent problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

100% verifiable that apples aren't oranges.
About PvE, it's mind-boggling that I have to say this yet again, but Burning Crusade never had RDF, we left it active as a bonus since we're on a Wrath of the Lich King anyway, but most players know the dungeons need more skill and coordination to do than what you'll get 9 out of 10 times putting together a bunch of randoms. That is why the queues are long, people who know the game aren't using RDF, they are creating groups the old fashioned way.

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and ANOTHER THING, please stop making strawman arguments. No one here things rdf was native to TBC. and we are fully aware that undergeared players cant beat it. that was never the point, and the ability of the player to complete the dungeon has almost NO bearing on the number of people in to the pool to try. IF anyhting edf only increase pleyer engagement event if they fail.

so theres another dead argument.

Here's an example: Say you have five full battlegrounds running. You have 25 horde in queue on Onyxia and 8 alliance in queue. The match making will create a Warsong Gulch game. Then you have 17 horde stuck in queue. There's a gap.

Introduce a server of PvP only with instant level 70 and mercenary mode then suddenly you have players to fill that gap. The match making system now compiles two games of Warsong Gulch or a full game of Alterac Valley with a mixture of both realms.

You can't argue exactly what those gaps are because Warmane is the only one with that exact data. Nobody thinks Blackrock is ideal at all, but that's why it exists to fill those gaps.