Transmog scrolls & Battlegrounds

Now, first of all, we all know the drop rate is crazy low. We also know how brain dead some battlegrounds can be, with players focusing on PvP only, neglecting to actually win.

My suggestion is to implement a low chance to obtain a scroll via:
- Assaulting or defending a base in Arathi Basin;
- Capping or returning a flag in WSG;
- Assaulting/defending a tower in Alterac/killing the boss etc;

You get the point. It will make players focus on the objective of the battleground & will make transmogging a bit more bearable.

Well winning usually is focused on objective base gameplay. As far as i know winning a bg has a low chance so i'm good with that.

This seems like a good suggestion on paper, however, there seem to be a few questions to be made as to how it would work in reality. Stealthers would simply farm said bases (AV/AB) and stay out of the fight. Actually, they would be discouraged from STOPPING a cap even if it happens in-front of them, because then they get another opportunity to re-cap for another % chance at the scroll. This suggestion, I believe, would work way better if we put it in lines such as these:

Instead of everybody having the flat % chance to win a scroll of deception at each battleground win, instead, increase & decrease the likelihood based on the amount of effort the person has seemingly put in said battleground. If the chance to win a scroll / bg win is 1% at the moment, make a formula that looks something like this:

if the honor gained is between 0 and X, the chance become 0,75%;
if the honor gained is between X and Y the chance becomes 1%;
if the honor gained is over Y the chance becomes 1,25%

Which works with your suggestion because what gives the most HONOR in battlegrounds actually is doing objectives like flag-capping or destroying walls and such; boss killing, etc.

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Originally Posted by theonemoh

This seems like a good suggestion on paper, however, there seem to be a few questions to be made as to how it would work in reality. Stealthers would simply farm said bases (AV/AB) and stay out of the fight. Actually, they would be discouraged from STOPPING a cap even if it happens in-front of them, because then they get another opportunity to re-cap for another % chance at the scroll. This suggestion, I believe, would work way better if we put it in lines such as these:

Instead of everybody having the flat % chance to win a scroll of deception at each battleground win, instead, increase & decrease the likelihood based on the amount of effort the person has seemingly put in said battleground. If the chance to win a scroll / bg win is 1% at the moment, make a formula that looks something like this:

if the honor gained is between 0 and X, the chance become 0,75%;
if the honor gained is between X and Y the chance becomes 1%;
if the honor gained is over Y the chance becomes 1,25%

Which works with your suggestion because what gives the most HONOR in battlegrounds actually is doing objectives like flag-capping or destroying walls and such; boss killing, etc.

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so what you're saying is: screw the healers because they get few HK and might not cap a single thing, therefore they "do little" and do not deserve a scroll?

so what you're saying is: screw the guy who was a pain for the enemy team by constantly capping bases without fighting even if the cap never completed, because he was alone vs a group or just too low to fight them, so he does not deserve a scroll either?

so what you're saying is: the guy who got 60 HK in WSG via farming the enemy graveyard and lost the BG because he did not cap a single flag and lost the chance to kill the enemy flag carrier, he DOES deserve the scroll?

system works fine as it is. want to farm scrolls? make a naxx raid. you can clear full naxx with very low geared and/or skilled ppl, and you can clear naxx twice a week (10 man and 25 man in case you're wondering...)

Based on the experience of multiple characters of mine, I can give you a rough estimate. Around every 1800-2000 Honorable Kills, I get a scroll. Doesn't matter if I win 30 BGs in a row or lose every single one that day. The scrolls only drop from BGs that I won, but it seems not to be important. For me, it is the HKs that matter. This number is an avg. number, there were times when I got 5000 HKs without a scroll, but the next day I got 2 scrolls. This calculation method might not work if you're only doing 1-2 BGs every day, if any. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of HKs across multiple characters that gave me this number.

Anyways, if you want to farm out let's say 10 scrolls, it's nowhere near impossible. Around 20k HKs. Some ppl do that in a week, some ppl do that in a month. Does not matter. I think BGs are hands down the best method to farm scrolls, especially if you enjoy doing some nice PvP along the way, while getting better in your class and earning achies.

ToC drops were just horrible for me, I still do them of course but like 90% of the scrolls I got are from BGs and not raids.

I don't think that adding this would be a wise decision. The same idea with RHC scroll drops. Scrolls are a precious thing and they were not a thing in retail wotlk and they should remain hard to get, if you don't want to pay for them.

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Originally Posted by bakkhos16

so what you're saying is: screw the healers because they get few HK and might not cap a single thing, therefore they "do little" and do not deserve a scroll?

so what you're saying is: screw the guy who was a pain for the enemy team by constantly capping bases without fighting even if the cap never completed, because he was alone vs a group or just too low to fight them, so he does not deserve a scroll either?

so what you're saying is: the guy who got 60 HK in WSG via farming the enemy graveyard and lost the BG because he did not cap a single flag and lost the chance to kill the enemy flag carrier, he DOES deserve the scroll?

system works fine as it is. want to farm scrolls? make a naxx raid. you can clear full naxx with very low geared and/or skilled ppl, and you can clear naxx twice a week (10 man and 25 man in case you're wondering...)

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Okay so I will start that totally admitting to you that raiding is the best way to obtain scrolls BY FAR. As far as the other points - some of them appear to be in bad faith and I will dissect them here, one by one, starting off with the main one which is that you are failing to differentiate between HONORABLE KILLS and KILLING BLOWS. As the system is now, healers get honorable kills by assisting (healing) the players, that ultimately killed the person. I played a WSG as a healer and got 41 kills for doing so. With that said, deriving from what we know of the game mechanic, a single killed player is 124 honor, or if EVERY player was present for the kill of another, that would be around 12-13 honor per kill, which would have given me the insignificant 533 honor, counted alone. However there are other factors that play into the obtaining of honor, such as caps, flag defends and whatnot - all of these things, are displayed when you open the battleground score page where it says the kills, heals and assists. In the rightmost tab of that is: "honor", which is what I was speaking of in my post. Honor built by the accumulation of all honor giving sources. This is for your: "screw the healers" point.

As for your second point of "the guy who was a pain for the enemy" : that person is OF COURSE valuable and necessary for the completion of the battleground, however, their gameplay is something that is out to be more of a "one of" thing while the rest go around and fight over the other objectives. What this threat's OP is suggesting, to me at least, risks turning this "one of" gameplay into something any stealth class will now instead PRIORITIZE doing as it would give them the highest possible NET scroll gain, giving them an unfair advantage in the collection of said scrolls in comparison to other classes that cannot stealth, wait for someone to cap the flag and re-cap it again, making it a, generally, unfair suggestion.

As for the third point - the guy who got 60 killing blows, I presume you meant, farming the enemy graveyard in WSG and lost the BG, would by no system get a scroll, because if the BG was lost, nobody on their team would get a scroll at all. By my suggestion, nobody but the winners of the battleground are receiving a chance on a scroll (as is currently in-game), therefore, incentivizing people to win. What my system proposes differently than the current one is to look at honor (as it is largely the only way we can determine how useful someone has been in said battleground (as I have above explained how HK's barely play a part the accumulation of honor)).

I agree, there is in need of some reward for those who actually go for the BG objective rather than pew pew people down and not giving a crap about the real thing.

How about being able to buy scrolls for honor&arena points? has it ever been discussed?

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Originally Posted by Camarosix

How about being able to buy scrolls for honor&arena points? has it ever been discussed?

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Probably, same goes for emblems.

I believe Warmane's stance on transmogrification isn't "it should be easy". It's an extra feature, and should be worked towards to achieve it. It's something to achieve over a longer term, not some "I walk to shop and buy it with in-game currency". It's same as getting that low % mount drop after you grind for it a long time. It was never meant to be quick and easy, like it's in Cataclysm.

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

Probably, same goes for emblems.

I believe Warmane's stance on transmogrification isn't "it should be easy". It's an extra feature, and should be worked towards to achieve it. It's something to achieve over a longer term, not some "I walk to shop and buy it with in-game currency". It's same as getting that low % mount drop after you grind for it a long time. It was never meant to be quick and easy, like it's in Cataclysm.

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There can be non-easy ways that can be accomlished though:

50 Emblems of Frost per [Scroll of Deception] OR 1000 [Arena Points];
25 Emblems of Frost per [Scroll of Purification];

At most via the EoF method, a player will be able to obtain 1 per week if they do they raid quest, 10, 25ICC and a daily HC. With the way [Scrolls of Deception] are right now, the chance of getting one is so outstandingly low, that it is more of a background thought, rather than a foreground one, for most players. As in - I have 3 scrolls of deception and want to transmog my holy pve, holy pvp, ret pve and ret pvp gear that is to require a lot more than that. I COULD theoretically buy some odd 30 from the marketplace OR buy 2 Shadowmournes OR buy nothing at all and keep transmog opted-out from the website because I am bored of my current t-mog appearance. If I, and I imagine a lot of other players, had a way to grind towards my 29th scroll and needed 3 more after that, the likelihood of bulk-buying them would be a lot higher. Or in other words, they are extremely rare & expensive for MOST people to be arsed to buy them.

This will also help reduce the [Primordial Saronite] inflation and give end-game players something to spend their non-utilazable resources on, other than primos or honor, which they use to buy cardinals.

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Originally Posted by theonemoh

There can be non-easy ways that can be accomlished though:

50 Emblems of Frost per [Scroll of Deception] OR 1000 [Arena Points];
25 Emblems of Frost per [Scroll of Purification];

At most via the EoF method, a player will be able to obtain 1 per week if they do they raid quest, 10, 25ICC and a daily HC. With the way [Scrolls of Deception] are right now, the chance of getting one is so outstandingly low, that it is more of a background thought, rather than a foreground one, for most players. As in - I have 3 scrolls of deception and want to transmog my holy pve, holy pvp, ret pve and ret pvp gear that is to require a lot more than that. I COULD theoretically buy some odd 30 from the marketplace OR buy 2 Shadowmournes OR buy nothing at all and keep transmog opted-out from the website because I am bored of my current t-mog appearance. If I, and I imagine a lot of other players, had a way to grind towards my 29th scroll and needed 3 more after that, the likelihood of bulk-buying them would be a lot higher. Or in other words, they are extremely rare & expensive for MOST people to be arsed to buy them.

This will also help reduce the [Primordial Saronite] inflation and give end-game players something to spend their non-utilazable resources on, other than primos or honor, which they use to buy cardinals.

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or you can just start raiding lower raid tiers too and hope for drops.

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

or you can just start raiding lower raid tiers too and hope for drops.

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The key words in what you said there is: "lower tier" and "hope" and for most people, the mere HOPE of getting a =< 1% chance at a cosmetic item is not enough to actually push them to do said lower tier content. WoW in general is structured towards you receiving endorfins from progressing your character via gear which makes the grind worthwhile as you progress through the raid tiers & going to raids that cannot do that (say you're in your character's endgame) can feel unrewarding.

Going for a % chance at something that doesn't progress your character (like a scroll of deception) has diminishing returns over your overall enthusiasm. An example I had with this was when I farmed Raven Lord. After 69 daily, consecutive runs, my interest towards obtaining this purely cosmetic method of moving around diminished and now, farming Anzu has turned into an afterthought. And do note, this is something I can do on the daily. Raids lock out weekly, which only promises to hit that enthusiasm DR even faster.

And say I obrained the Raven Lord on attempt #70. My grind would have been over and I would have obtained the cosmetic thing I wanted to obtain. With the scrolls, I have only obtained 1/30 I need (in the example above) after say, 2 weeks of raid grinding. Truly turns transmog grinding into something more tidious than enjoyable and I think hinders other sells warmane can be making, which is a suggestion I will make a threat of my own for.

Rofl, I just play, doing almost all raids I can during the week and don't care about when I get it... And I already got full transmog. Maybe just change attitude, because it looks like this will not change soon.
For example - last 2 weeks = 2 ToC normal = 2 Scrolls.