WotLK Combat Daggers. Is it viable? What about 30/34/7?

[kesshi]

Hello,

I'm looking to see if anyone has any experience with Combat Daggers or other dagger builds that aren't Mutilate.

The reasoning is that Hack and Slash is bugged so I'm seeking alternates to Combat Axes/Swords until Hack and Slash is fixed. Thus I've reverted to my Vanilla roots and want to see if Combat Daggers is viable. I have two ideas on how to make this work.

First idea: 18/51/2 with 1 floating point in Combat (I stuck it into Sinister Strike, you can put it anywhere you want.) This is your basic Combat Axes/Swords build with Daggers instead and some points moved out of Assassination into Sub for the bonus damage.

Second idea: 30/34/7 (Change the poisons around as you feel necessary. Also change 2/2 Fleet Footed to 1/2 and take 2/2 Quick Recovery if you wish.) This one is basically a mimic of an old 30/31/0 TBC build that a few Rogues I knew used right when TBC came out with some extras throw on there since we have 10 more talent points.

The concept for both builds would be to use almost the exact same equipment as Combat Swords/Axes, except you would be using Daggers as weapons of course. This would permit an easy transition into and out of this spec if one already has Combat gear. The other minor difference in gear would be less Expertise needed for any dagger build. You might even consider moving some points around in the 30/34/7 build. Take 2 points out of Weapon Expertise and add them to Endurance for some bonus health.

Both builds will have a base crit chance on Backstab of 45% (5% base + 5% Malice + 30% Puncturing Wounds + 5% Close Quarters Combat) before agility is considered. Both builds do things with Crit Backstabs differently.

18/51/2 will have great scaling with Prey on the Weak.

30/34/7 will get many combo points with Seal Fate and a lot of extra Energy with Relentless Strikes in Sub.

I haven't tried these out, and as of right now they're just brainstorms and theories; I've no idea if these build are even viable. If someone has experience with these builds, or similar Combat Dagger builds, I'd love to hear what you have to say. Even if you don't have experience I'd love to hear your thoughts or comments.

Thank you.

[Sanecorez]

No. Combat daggers is not viable.

You're better off with mace spec.

[Dongwise]

HnS being bugged doesn't change the fact that combat spec reigns supreme on this server and the standard 20/51/0 is still best as well.

The first spec will be atrocious because your poisons will struggle to hit and stick. The wasted point in SS would be better off in Imp Sprint and Blood Splatter is entirely useless since bleeds aren't part of combat rotation in 3.3.5, better to put those in Imp Evi since that's still your finisher.

Second spec might as well play like sub pve. CP overflow, energy starved nightmare. Doesn't matter that Quick Recovery and Relentless Strikes are there to prop you up, without Surprise Attacks you'll spend a good portion of the fight whiffing on finishers.

What will likely happen is you'll see nice big numbers from backstab, ambush, evi but your white damage and poisons will lag behind bringing down your overall dps.

[taralej]

First spec looks pretty much like a CQC spec, only that you're emphasizing on Backstab instead. Would be better off using a fist MH and a dagger OH, which is totally viable, even more so with crit cap being bugged on lolten.

Second spec looks hideous - you're sacrificing a lot of goodies in Combat just for Seal Fate. It's quite a bad deal, don't you think?

All in all, if it's an alternative for HnS you're looking for, then CQC is what you need since there are no maces in ICC25, and even if there were any - ArP cap. The best you can get as CQC is Black Bruise + Heaven's Fall.

[kesshi]

Thanks for your feedback everyone. I'm not about to give up on this idea just yet; I'd like to see some hard numbers before giving up on it entirely. My Rogue is new and in just a few days since hitting 80 is almost up to ICC level gear. As soon as I start ICC with my guild I'll try to nab a few daggers that are going to be otherwise disenchanted. If I get some daggers and do some tests I'll post the results here.

Also I really do like taradej's idea of fist weapons, especially with the crit crap (or lack there of) on Warmane. One thing about combat rogues that has always bothered me is that you prioritize almost every other stat before crit but you also have all these goodies that give you bonus crit damage. Going CQC with fists may change this.

[Bensten]

I don't understand why you wanna go this way.

Only thing you need on a combat rogue is your arp cap. Reaching those 1400 arp is the key to kick ***.

Last time I went ICC25 I bursted to 41.5k on Marrowgar single target. This is insane. Imagine this with HnS working properly.

[kesshi]

I don't understand why you wanna go this way.

Because I have two specs and it will cost me virtually nothing to try this.

[Dongwise]

I don't understand why you wanna go this way.

Only thing you need on a combat rogue is your arp cap. Reaching those 1400 arp is the key to kick ***.

Last time I went ICC25 I bursted to 41.5k on Marrowgar single target. This is insane. Imagine this with HnS working properly.

Burst would barely change with HnS working and you didn't do 41.5k on Marrow alone. Post the recount.

[taralej]

Honestly, with crit cap not working and HnS being bugged, I believe CQC should perform quite well, compared to HnS. However, I'm not sure if the damage of Necrotic Touch - Black Bruise's proc - is correct.