70% played requirement removal for Arena Titles on Lordaeron/Wotlk

[rumbleshotz]

Hello

I would kindly like to suggest that the current system where you need:

1.) to be within 150 personal rating range to team rating
2.) 70% played of all games
3.) 2k teamrating for title

Is an overkill for wotlk expansion.

Why?

On Lordaeron you will need approx 150 games alone for 2k team rating if you are good and have a really good win/loss ratio.
So everyone needs to have atleast 105 !! games played in this team to be eligible for title. + the personal rating requirement

Which in reality is impossible to achieve in any way when you inv someone new after around 120 games its just impossible to grind 70% played even when he gets into the 150personal rating range.

Compared to cata/mop with different mmr and rating system you cant get to 2k with just 20-30games.

Last Season i joined a 3v3 team with 28 games j4f on last day of the season since there were some teams in que to paly some 3v3. we did 40games. I had more games played than any other team from rank 10 to 3 has done. but because of this 70% rule i didnt get a reward


What are the cons of this 70% played rule?
- impossible to get title for a 4th person in the team
- impossible to find replacement when someone of your team leaves/quits after 60- 70 games since nobody wants to join and play 80 games in a 3v3 team on serv like lord/icecrown without rewards. which he would got if he had joined at begin.
-you have to stick the whole season for aprox 150-200games to same team if you leave /cahnge mates you are screwd


What are the pro of this 70% played rule?
can't see any from a experienced arena player standpoint in Wotlk . CATA AND MOP are something totally different because of different working arena system

How was it on retail?
1)Your team needs to be within the top .5% of your battlegroup.
2)You need to be within 100 personal rating of the team rating (doesnt apply if your personal rating is above team rating.).
3)You have to have played 20% of the total games played by the team for the season.


So what to do?
-Remove the 70% played rule or atleast reduce it to 30% but this doesnt motivate anyone to play 3v3. The 2k requirement for proper title and 150 personal range are enough imo for WOTLK

[Zelda1220]

Is an overkill for wotlk expansion.

Meant to be an overkill. Nothing to read.

What did u expect. Everyone to be gladiator?

[rumbleshotz]

you either didnt read or didnt understand it?!

[rumbleshotz]

here to show the difference how personal rating catch up between the addons and why this rule is good for Cata/MoP but not WOTLK:

1.) WOTLK example:

http://armory.warmane.com/team/meier...daeron/summary

over 100games which is a lot and in personal rating range for quite some time but still only 71% played

2.) Cata example:

http://armory.warmane.com/team/asfaf...harion/summary

The second shaman has 8 games in team and is already within personal rating so this rule here kinda makes sense.

[Mercy]

Why?

On Lordaeron you will need approx 150 games alone for 2k team rating if you are good and have a really good win/loss ratio.
So everyone needs to have atleast 105 !! games played in this team to be eligible for title. + the personal rating requirement

Which in reality is impossible to achieve in any way when you inv someone new after around 120 games its just impossible to grind 70% played even when he gets into the 150personal rating range.

We want people to have worked to earn their titles. Not be carried by a team to the titles. Being carried to a title, even being sold on ebay and whatnot, is a "blizzlike" feature we can happily do without. There's more than enough trouble already with the arenas on here.

What are the cons of this 70% played rule?
- impossible to get title for a 4th person in the team

Working as intended. See my response to the previous quote.

I could see about being more lenient with the rule if 1) it was more active, 2) people didn't cheat like they do, and 3) there weren't rewards that would be handed out to people who hadn't really earned it.

It's really a no-win situation for the staff, and people might have "more fun" if they could do all this. But at the same time, there are a variety of people who would have less fun because of others taking advantage of the leniency in order to get the top-end rewards. So the system will most likely stay as it is.

[meiergodx]

We want people to have worked to earn their titles. Not be carried by a team to the titles. Being carried to a title, even being sold on ebay and whatnot, is a "blizzlike" feature we can happily do without. There's more than enough trouble already with the arenas on here.


Working as intended. See my response to the previous quote.

I could see about being more lenient with the rule if 1) it was more active, 2) people didn't cheat like they do, and 3) there weren't rewards that would be handed out to people who hadn't really earned it.

It's really a no-win situation for the staff, and people might have "more fun" if they could do all this. But at the same time, there are a variety of people who would have less fun because of others taking advantage of the leniency in order to get the top-end rewards. So the system will most likely stay as it is.

do you even know anything about pvp ? because i dont think so

[Lucatiel]

do you even know anything about pvp ? because i dont think so

You think 4 ppl even queue 3s? :)

[Mercy]

do you even know anything about pvp ? because i dont think so

Such an ironclad argument. I'd prefer to see more objective counter-points to my post rather than personal attacks.

[feraldinio]

either take r1 title into 2s or make 3s seasonend tournament

cant see any reason to keep r1 title in 3s tbh

[rumbleshotz]

We want people to have worked to earn their titles. Not be carried by a team to the titles. Being carried to a title, even being sold on ebay and whatnot, is a "blizzlike" feature we can happily do without. There's more than enough trouble already with the arenas on here.


Working as intended. See my response to the previous quote.

I could see about being more lenient with the rule if 1) it was more active, 2) people didn't cheat like they do, and 3) there weren't rewards that would be handed out to people who hadn't really earned it.

It's really a no-win situation for the staff, and people might have "more fun" if they could do all this. But at the same time, there are a variety of people who would have less fun because of others taking advantage of the leniency in order to get the top-end rewards. So the system will most likely stay as it is.

So if someone who ends up with 60 % games played hasnt worked enough for their title? I brought up my own example not that im crying for the title just want to point it out how this % played system isnt the right thing:
t
I did 40games in a team with 68-70games. 2nd most team between r10 and r3 had maybe 20games as a team. yet no reward because no 70% played.

Also i showed in my reply before the difference how personal rating goes up compared to cataclysm expansion i can totally and agree with this rule for cataclysm but not for wotlk especially on Lordaeron.

Its all these small things combined which make laddering in 3v3 here really unattractive since you cant even swap out 1 mate of your team since the new guy will help you grind for no reward in return.

Also on a Realm like Lordaeron where you maybe have 4 activ /decent 3v3 teams at all and you cant bring 4 player into your rooster to change comps its just scissor /stone/paper system. There is a reason you can inv up to 3 more peopel in a 3v3 team and any WoW 3v3 tournament has the rule to bring up 1 replacement player for alternative comps.


And regarding Ebay/carry title:

Why do titles on Warmane not get removed after 1 season like they did on retail? would also make ladder activ again because right now you wear the title for eternity. and if you arleady have a title why play activ and try again for a top spot when you have the title anyway forever

and pls 12 year old pvp kids dont spam this thread thats exactly the reason nothing will change when staff has this impression of pvp players

[Remphan]

We want people to have worked to earn their titles.

Work hard like that guy, current rank 1 on Icecrown? Don't take this as report or something since its public youtube video, I just share it.
-video removed-

[Mercy]

Work hard like that guy, current rank 1 on Icecrown? Don't take this as report or something since its public youtube video, I just share it.
-video removed-

Posting that video here is inappropriate. But I do get your point, which is why I referred to cheaters in my initial post.

So if someone who ends up with 60 % games played hasnt worked enough for their title?

I don't disagree with you on this point. I really don't. But as I said in my initial post, there are other factors that we have to take into consideration before changing anything. If we were to changing it a little bit, what would be the chances of people saying we didn't change it enough?

Also i showed in my reply before the difference how personal rating goes up compared to cataclysm expansion i can totally and agree with this rule for cataclysm but not for wotlk especially on Lordaeron.

I expect that Cataclysm has just been left behind with their old rating model. The system for Lordaeron is more recent. Do consider that Lordaeron is the newer realm, and the bulk of the content on the realm had been completely re-scripted.

Also on a Realm like Lordaeron where you maybe have 4 activ /decent 3v3 teams at all

It is the same case as it is for Icecrown. I can assure you of that. I'd honestly be surprised if the Cata or MoP realms were any better.

There is a reason you can inv up to 3 more peopel in a 3v3 team and any WoW 3v3 tournament has the rule to bring up 1 replacement player for alternative comps.

I'm aware of this. However, the issues I presented above doesn't exactly make adjusting this easy. I'm well aware there are issues with the PvP scene, and especially 3's. However, I also know that our team is unsure of what changes could be made to improve upon the situation. Currently, 3's is most widely used for wintrading, and lifting this restriction would only make it easier to do. So we have to ask ourselves if making a change like this, would it make things better or worse? It would make it better for the teams that already exist and play legitimately, sure. But those are also very few people. Would it bring in more players to 3's, and would they play legitimately? I don't believe the answer to that would be as positive as any of us (me, the staff, etc. and yourself as well) would like.

So what we need to figure out is how to approach this without improving the situation for people who use 3's for win-trading to get gear and titles and etc.

[feraldinio]

Posting that video here is inappropriate. But I do get your point, which is why I referred to cheaters in my initial post.

I don't disagree with you on this point. I really don't. But as I said in my initial post, there are other factors that we have to take into consideration before changing anything. If we were to changing it a little bit, what would be the chances of people saying we didn't change it enough?

I expect that Cataclysm has just been left behind with their old rating model. The system for Lordaeron is more recent. Do consider that Lordaeron is the newer realm, and the bulk of the content on the realm had been completely re-scripted.

It is the same case as it is for Icecrown. I can assure you of that. I'd honestly be surprised if the Cata or MoP realms were any better.

I'm aware of this. However, the issues I presented above doesn't exactly make adjusting this easy. I'm well aware there are issues with the PvP scene, and especially 3's. However, I also know that our team is unsure of what changes could be made to improve upon the situation. Currently, 3's is most widely used for wintrading, and lifting this restriction would only make it easier to do. So we have to ask ourselves if making a change like this, would it make things better or worse? It would make it better for the teams that already exist and play legitimately, sure. But those are also very few people. Would it bring in more players to 3's, and would they play legitimately? I don't believe the answer to that would be as positive as any of us (me, the staff, etc. and yourself as well) would like.

So what we need to figure out is how to approach this without improving the situation for people who use 3's for win-trading to get gear and titles and etc.

why not just a 3s seasonend tournament for title/coins on lordaeron/icecrown
this would make the titel fight fair also it could be streamed so maybe ppl who dont know the server can pick him up

[Obnoxious]

So if someone who ends up with 60 % games played hasnt worked enough for their title? I brought up my own example not that im crying for the title just want to point it out how this % played system isnt the right thing:
t
I did 40games in a team with 68-70games. 2nd most team between r10 and r3 had maybe 20games as a team. yet no reward because no 70% played.

70% is an arbitrary number decided as the point where you have shown dedication to the team and have given a major contribution to them being where they are, without necessarily having to be there from the very beginning. It does means if you join a team with a very large amount of games midway you will have a long road ahead of you to be eligible. None of that makes the value invalid or impracticable, just harsher based on the team activity. If anything it encourages teams with a lot of games to stick together to the end (since getting a replacement would be tough) and for people wanting to jump in to favor teams that are closer to the start of their "games career" instead of "sure win" ones.

[Jakkre]

Thats a bit of a offtopic but think about how active 3s would be if blackrocks solo queue system was implemented on the other realms and would overlap with the normal 3s ladder.
Solo queue would make the 3s ladder probably even more active than 2s and therefore also reduce win trading.