WotLK Some Sub rogue PVP questions..

[nikola315]

So the first and most important question is, should i use rapture in my standard rotation as sub spec? Or should i use it for rogues and ferals for anti stealth spell?
Second, and kinda noobish, but should i use sword (axe,mace) in off hand or just stick with two daggers?
Third.. Should i stack Arp or go attack power?

Ty in advance. :D

[Stepmom]

So the first and most important question is, should i use rapture in my standard rotation as sub spec? Or should i use it for rogues and ferals for anti stealth spell?

If you're running a bleed spec (2/2 blood spatter in assassination), then yes. Sometimes it's worth using rupture on plate classes if you know you're going to be tunneling them for a long time. It's worth noting that sub's playstyle usually doesn't do this, and Blind (and any other rogue CC besides stuns) breaks from ANY damage, including your own bleeds and poisons. There is no glyph that makes blind remove dots (although mages can glyph polymorph to do that, and typically do). But, if you're not using blood spatter, typically it's better to eviscerate. You always wanted to bleed a rogue, though. Feral isn't as important to bleed because they don't have any instant escape mechanics similar to Vanish, unless you count shadowmeld/prowl. Mostly just bleed when you anticipate a vanish or restealth though.

Second, and kinda noobish, but should i use sword (axe,mace) in off hand or just stick with two daggers?

Rule of thumb is to stick with 2 daggers. However, you can still backstab with a sword/axe/mace in the offhand. The reason why 1.4 weapon speed daggers are used in the offhand is because of poison procs (faster dagger = faster poison application at the cost of lower high end damage). Poisons are obviously pretty important on a rogue, so you want them to constantly be up. But you should be fine playing casually as long as you have a dagger in the mainhand.

Third.. Should i stack Arp or go attack power?

This has been slightly debated from what I've read. You usually want somewhere between 30% and 40% armor penetration to eat through plate, but too much armor pen actually hurts you. 40% of a plate's armor and 40% of a cloth's armor are very different numbers, and obviously it's worth going AP against clothies because your raw damage will be higher. I haven't seen a rogue gem armor penetration as subtlety since WotLK was live in retail, and I'm fairly certain they didn't have much success as it. I gem attack power and prefer it, and then get my armor penetration from offset pieces. Be careful swapping out resilience pieces for armor penetration PvE pieces, though. If your resil dips too low, you'll be a really easy kill. Try and stay somewhere around 900-1100 resil.

I hope this helps. Good luck and have fun!

[Wreckingbawl]

You usually want somewhere between 30% and 40% armor penetration to eat through plate, but too much armor pen actually hurts you. 40% of a plate's armor and 40% of a cloth's armor are very different numbers, and obviously it's worth going AP against clothies because your raw damage will be higher.

FYI this isn't how arp works. Arp actually increases your damage more vs clothies than vs plates. More arp never hurts, and every point you get is worth more than the last was. The reason rogues go for 30-40% is that's how much you get with two pve trinkets and a few pve off-sets.

[Stepmom]

FYI this isn't how arp works. Arp actually increases your damage more vs clothies than vs plates. More arp never hurts, and every point you get is worth more than the last was. The reason rogues go for 30-40% is that's how much you get with two pve trinkets and a few pve off-sets.

I did a little research on it. It's actually not more or less effective depending on armor. Also, there's only one PvE trinket with armor pen (DBW).

From this article, http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=...or-penetration,

So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.

So, it seems that it is designed to be equally effective against both high armor and low armor targets. However, if plates didn't have high armor, ArP wouldn't be as much of a priority compared to other stats (raw AP, crit). You do need ~30% to be effective against plate. Clothies, not so much. But it still is equally beneficial against clothies.

[Ogrepowered]

I did a little research on it. It's actually not more or less effective depending on armor. Also, there's only one PvE trinket with armor pen (DBW).

From this article, http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=...or-penetration,



So, it seems that it is designed to be equally effective against both high armor and low armor targets. However, if plates didn't have high armor, ArP wouldn't be as much of a priority compared to other stats (raw AP, crit). You do need ~30% to be effective against plate. Clothies, not so much. But it still is equally beneficial against clothies.

There's many PvE trinkets with Arp, notably STS. Take a look at this well researched and in-depth guide: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=298787

[nikola315]

Thank you for all the info, it was really helpful. I think i am gonna skip Blood Spatter talent and just go for more bursty playstyle. :D