Is it normal for a raid leader to kick someone without any excuse or warning then /ignore him?
Not only I got ID for nothing but I lost items too, didn't even roll, does Warmane punish this kind of behavior? Is it considered as Ninja?
I have the screenshots as evidences so is it worth posting or he will not get any punishment?
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Member
Kicking someone from raid for no reason
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Forum Veteran
You could read through this topic.
If I'd get a random kick without loot rolls and an ignore on top.. I'd report and leave it up to GM's. In general RL/ML should distribute loot before a player is removed, but it seems it's not always the case. Grey area I suppose.
Reporting Players [Updated: May 22, 2020]
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Member
Well the raid was RS 25 I got kicked during the fight with the 3rd mini boss, I managed to talk with someone inside the raid and the trinket I was looking for dropped, and even if it didn't, still he didn't have to kick me to begin with...
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Member
I wanted to update this issue so maybe someone could clarify, a GM took a look at my screenshots and told me exactly "The screenshots do not show any rules being offended".
Well the problem is there were no rules to begin with, I cannot take a screenshot of something that doesn't exists, the raid leader didn't state anything like "if something then you're kicked".
In this case I can make my own raid without any kicking rules then in the end I kick everyone for no reason and get away with it right?
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Member
Well there are no kicking rules, every raid is different, every raid leader is different. We dont really know what really happened, you might have been afk, doing miserable dps, not listening to call outs, not buffing people
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Member
I don't know either, I'm in top 5 when it comes to dps and it's not my first RS 25 xD, I didn't do anything stupid nor going afk, like I said I can do the same thing if this behavior is allowed in Warmane, get my own raid, kick the ones that will probably roll on items I need, /ignore them and make a list of fake excuses in case a GM contacts me like:
-He was afk for 5 seconds.
-I didn't like his tone.
-Not reactive enough.
...
Not to mention if I obligate each player to be on a discord channel that way the excuses can be infinie, I can come up with whatever excuse I like and I'm 100% confident that even with the entire recording of the voice chat during the raid where I'll ninja items, not a single GM will bother to investigate into listening or whatever the case will be I'll assure you.
I know that from the fact that I once recorded an entire video from grouping stage until loot distributing (including rules and everything) and the RL gave an item "by mistake" to someone else instead of me, the dude that got the item disconnected during that day and the RL just told me he can't do anything about it.
I uploaded the video on youtube, Talked in Warmane forum and in-game GM and both players didn't get a ban nor the item was removed.
Anyway I'll probably will screenshot every respond of the GM and get a confirmation that I can start ninja legally soon :)
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Moderator
It's on you to question the raid leader about the looting rules if they don't state any. Showing the raid's loot rules is one of the mandatory things you have to show in a report. Without that anyone could create false reports for things that were covered by loot rules.
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Member
I wasn't talking about looting rules, but kicking rules, which rarely someone states or mentions them, I was kicked during boss fight for no reason at all.
I really don't know why you're making reporting players this difficult, well part of the reason as you said is not to create false claims but the GM has to talk with both, the victim and the accused, and If turns out for example that I'm lying or making a false story then I get banned too.
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Forum Veteran
So the RL, who almost never gets asked what are reasons for a person to be kicked, can kick on players on a whim. If a player questions the legitimacy of a kick, the RL can come up with a reason on the fly (who could confirm/deny it was ever in place to begin with?). This reason can be w/e and ends up being abused. "I didn't know that was a reason for a kick." "Well, you never asked. And there's also the rule that states that I can kick anybody for whatever reason whenever I want. Especially if they want/need same items as I do, but nobody asked if that kind of rule existed so I thought you're okay with it. :)"
Reserves, loot bans and kick conditions should be stated on raid rules. How can something be a rule, if it isn't stated anywhere.
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Moderator
There are no "kicking rules" requirement nor any rule being broken by kicking someone, unless there was loot involved, which makes it a "ninja" case, or "without a reason," which I can't recall anyone claiming they got banned for, since you'd basically need to screenshot the leader saying they did it just because they felt like it to prove it was without any reason at all.
As the article on reporting states, "GMs should NOT be your shield against ninjas. Please bear in mind that this will not stop all ninjas and it's your best intent to take measures yourself and avoid suspicious raids, especially when leaders refuse to explain looting rules."
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Member
I don't know why I was kicked because the dude /ignored me before I even get the chance to ask.
Let us say there were 5 kicking rules, if I do one of these 5 mistakes I get kicked, then suddenly I find myself "kicked without any reason" so far, I open the chatbox to talk with the RL about that only to find that he is ignoring my messages, in this particular case what can I do?
Assuming I took the "perfect" precautions, which is recording a video containing everything. After uploading the 30-60mins video, I give the link to a GM. Do you think he will bother noting the kicking rules and follow my actions to see if the RL had the right to kick me or not?
If yes, then I will hunt down that person with my other characters and trick him to make the same thing again so he will get banned.
If no, then Warmane is neglecting this kind of behavior and I have the right to do the same thing without getting penalized.
If you haven't read the total discussion, this case is about being "kicked without a reason" which is stated in the article. I can create a macro or an external program that kicks players that may roll on the same item that I need just before the boss gets killed, that way I can say "there was no loot involved" since at that moment the boss was alive, and I come up with whatever reasons I want.
I have 2 objectives regarding this matter, either this dude gets banned, or I join the ninja community and using your arguments and what the GMs told me so far against the rules stated in the article, and I will carefully follow each one.
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Moderator
No one is going to get banned because you started a thread. People get banned from reports with proper evidence. You already got a reply from a GM after you tried a report. If that's the objective you had, this thread should have ended when you got that reply, and has no point going further.
