Having ToC and ToGC share lockouts but not having Defense Protocol dungeons, what's up with that? You're making yourself look silly.
The wording in the changelog is particularly annoying: "Fixed not being able to dynamically switch..."
Admit it for what it is, not a bug fix but a deliberate design change that you are unable/lazy to follow up with complete Classic gameplay changes.
-
Member
If Warmane wants to be like Classic, they should not half-*** it
-
Member
Warmane stated repeatedly that they are not trying to be Classic. They are following 2004 WOW progression. Not 2019 Classic wow progression. I won't comment whether it's good or bad but it is what it is.
-
Member
I mean OP is right tho this change was introduced in classic wotlk and was never present in 2009 wrath for toc.
However it does make sense that they would implement it considering there are only 3 heroic raids in the entire game two of which had this feature back in the original game.Edited: December 15, 2025
-
Moderator
No, he isn't right. Not sure what part of the "stated repeatedly they are not trying to be Classic" from the quoted post somehow managed to not register. Picking and choosing a handful of Classic tweaks doesn't make it "wanting to be Classic" in any way, and that's what the "argument" was.
-
Member
He is right about the toc thing, which is obviously what the reply implies it was about.
-
Moderator
So it was quote-reply to something that was never said. It keeps getting better (from a shrink's point of view).
-
Forum Veteran
It's a simple concept. You give a kid too much candy and they get sick. It's one candy today then wait till tomorrow for another one.
Of course it won't be popular, but some things require moderation for a better gaming experience. It's not a Classic change, it's just a logical decision to improve gameplay.
-
Member
Its very much a classic change when it was implemented in classic wrath and not in 2009 wrath.
Dont matter how much you try to spin it.
-
Member
Many "bugs" Warmane has fixed are technically deviations from 3.3.5a. It just comes down to what the server chooses to do, but let's not pretend keeping true to 3.3.5a is an unbreakable promise. If so, let me mind control + teleport people again, and remove all open-world phasing in the spirit of keeping it blizz-like. Many bug fixes are assumed to be the right decision without the need for undeniable evidence from retail because the devs can logically deduce Blizzards original intent (eye of the storms recent area restriction on starting spot). QoL changes can be applied with the same logic. What frustrates me is Warmane choosing to make custom changes that negatively impact gameplay (zone phasing), while declining changes that would improve gameplay, all while using the scapegoat of "no custom content" toward 99% of QoL suggestions.
-
Member
how is it a logical decision to improve gameplay, if it limits people to only play 1 5boss raid per id during toc patch? the only reason this change could work in wotlk classic was because of the higher ulduar gear making toc less relevant.
allowing people to wear death choice nm and death choice hc for example, while both of those trinket come from the same lockout, is an awful idea. farming emblems will be even worse than it already is anyways. there WILL be cases of a guild swapping to nm on valks just to get dc nm to their leader or officer, making other people in the raid lose out on the other gear they could get on hc difficulty.
It's just an awful change and not rooted in anything else than copying a wotlk classic change without context.
-
Forum Veteran
So you're implying that in Cata and Mop their changing of 10 and 25 man to shared lockouts and dropping the same loot destroyed the game?
We're talking about taking four raids and consolidating into two. The above I mentioned was taking two raids and consolidating into one. So why then wouldn't you be arguing the opposite of making ICC into four raids or Ulduar into four raids or changing all future expansions? TOC was simply an outlier and they changed it to match the rest of the content, the end. And it is progressed no different than any other content. That's logic.
Classic doesn't put name brands on changes. They don't own anything. I don't go over to Blizzard and cry to them about them using whatever idea from a private server as if it means anything. It doesn't. Warmane owns this server and can do whatever they want with it. Make TOC like the other raids? It's common sense.
-
Member
They don't want to be Vanilla either. They've created this limbo state what with not compensating for the lack of Triumph/Trophies and increased scarcity of gear.
The main "complaint" for a nonshared lockout is that people don't want to play the same raid 4 times a week, but this is not 3.2.0 progression anymore, people have had later raids to choose from (ICC and RS) for years.
-
Member
Toc is balanced around having seperate lockouts, emblem-wise, gearwise and length-wise, you cannot just change lockouts and nothing else and expect it to work, other raids are balanced around sharing a lockout.Despite liking hc mode, I also wouldnt want a heroic mode for ulduar, because it wouldnt work properly with the hardmodes. swapping lockout and fixing none of the problems it brings, is just nonsense. let it be like it was for 15years
-
Forum Veteran
It works because Warmane applied a Warmane exclusive change called stuck in 3.3.5 forever (I hope Classic doesn't steal that idea). And in this lovely patch we barely even need TOC. Good times though when we spammed TOC a million times in a row for orbs and Warmane exclusive scrolls and boosting alts. Remember when ICC wasn't dynamic? Those days when people actually had to beat normal mode to get good loot. Those were good times too.
-
Member
barely anyone does toc on lordaeron/icecrown, so the swap being a downgrade didnt matter. But onyxia will hit toc patch at some point, and that will be a disaster if they leave it like this
Quote
