WotLK [Guide] Advanced Subtlety Guide by Qu

[IzzyData]

I dunno, I doubt if both Feral and Subtlety are equally skilled the Sub has a chance. Evasion? lolnope Cyclone Chain and/or Entangle Chain. Faerie Fire, Bear form, Lifebloom, Rejuv, and they can kite you till they heal to full.

Whenever I duel a feral druid I'm usually the one that ends up kiting them with bleeds until I have stun CD back.

You can deadzone them like a warrior and win pretty easily. They are basically forced to stay in bear or else they die instantly in a kidney.

[Archetyp]

Whenever I duel a feral druid I'm usually the one that ends up kiting them with bleeds until I have stun CD back.

You can deadzone them like a warrior and win pretty easily. They are basically forced to stay in bear or else they die instantly in a kidney.

But Druids just powershift out of slows and snares :|

[IzzyData]

But Druids just powershift out of slows and snares :|

What's your point. I think that is probably one of the main reasons I end up winning. They try and shift to travel or cat form to get away and then I either just kidneyshot or if for some reason they are to far away then I will shadowstep kidneyshot.

If you have a feral druid or know someone on neltharion or ragnaros I'll be glad to demonstrate.

Edit: Went out and recorded a video of the first wrathful druid I could find. I was on my furious glad rogue so it wasn't as easy as it could have been but I won pretty easily regardless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OKVj9AJoY

Well there you go. For some reason vanish accidently went off. As you can see he took most of his damage by trying to get away with shapeshift as usual. Btw my rogues have zero ARP because I play by my strengths instead of trying to compensate for the weaknesses of my class.

[Kimblee]

What's your point. I think that is probably one of the main reasons I end up winning. They try and shift to travel or cat form to get away and then I either just kidneyshot or if for some reason they are to far away then I will shadowstep kidneyshot.

If you have a feral druid or know someone on neltharion or ragnaros I'll be glad to demonstrate.

Edit: Went out and recorded a video of the first wrathful druid I could find. I was on my furious glad rogue so it wasn't as easy as it could have been but I won pretty easily regardless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OKVj9AJoY

Well there you go. For some reason vanish accidently went off. As you can see he took most of his damage by trying to get away with shapeshift as usual. Btw my rogues have zero ARP because I play by my strengths instead of trying to compensate for the weaknesses of my class.

When you duel it looks so easy. Hope u didn't make video when owning me xD

[QuBro]

What's your point. I think that is probably one of the main reasons I end up winning. They try and shift to travel or cat form to get away and then I either just kidneyshot or if for some reason they are to far away then I will shadowstep kidneyshot.

If you have a feral druid or know someone on neltharion or ragnaros I'll be glad to demonstrate.

Edit: Went out and recorded a video of the first wrathful druid I could find. I was on my furious glad rogue so it wasn't as easy as it could have been but I won pretty easily regardless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OKVj9AJoY

Well there you go. For some reason vanish accidently went off. As you can see he took most of his damage by trying to get away with shapeshift as usual. Btw my rogues have zero ARP because I play by my strengths instead of trying to compensate for the weaknesses of my class.

Oh, I just now saw your vid., I do against ferals similar to you, nice one :). Thanks

[sidewaysfcs07]

ruthlessness and improved eviscerate are a waste of points imo , you will rarely eviscerate ...since backstab does almost as much dmg as evis its pretty much just a "meh" skill ...rupture does more dmg overtime anyway, and with the points in it it will always be a better finisher than eviscerate.

and ruthlessness is a waste of 3 points, since HaT gives way more combo points for 2/3 (diregarding the current molten bug wich makes it proc @ 1/3 100%) , on retail 3.3.5 2/3 HaT is all you need for combo points.

master of subtelty is a must-have for burst .

and for competitive arena you need 50% arp , wich u can easily get with DBW and STS + a few arp gems (or if u have the heroic versions just 1-2 arp gems and ur @ 50%), then gem full AP after 50% arp ....

without 50% arp you might aswell switch ur dagger to pillows vs warriors/bears/dks/pallies


and gemming resil is useless , you dont need more than 900 resil as a rogue , since ur role is control and BURST ....not having lethality will mean ur crits are very low and ur role in arena will diminish quite alot , you NEED to have atleast 2-3 pve items to have decent burst in arena at high ratings ....

[QuBro]

ruthlessness and improved eviscerate are a waste of points imo , you will rarely eviscerate ...since backstab does almost as much dmg as evis its pretty much just a "meh" skill ...rupture does more dmg overtime anyway, and with the points in it it will always be a better finisher than eviscerate.

and ruthlessness is a waste of 3 points, since HaT gives way more combo points for 2/3 (diregarding the current molten bug wich makes it proc @ 1/3 100%) , on retail 3.3.5 2/3 HaT is all you need for combo points.

master of subtelty is a must-have for burst .

and for competitive arena you need 50% arp , wich u can easily get with DBW and STS + a few arp gems (or if u have the heroic versions just 1-2 arp gems and ur @ 50%), then gem full AP after 50% arp ....

without 50% arp you might aswell switch ur dagger to pillows vs warriors/bears/dks/pallies


and gemming resil is useless , you dont need more than 900 resil as a rogue , since ur role is control and BURST ....not having lethality will mean ur crits are very low and ur role in arena will diminish quite alot , you NEED to have atleast 2-3 pve items to have decent burst in arena at high ratings ....

All what you wrote, is your option, I wrote my options in guide, I have been playing with lot of specs but this one suits my play style.. and as i said in guide:

INTRODUCTION

Keep in mind that Subtlety Rogue is not just about Shadow Dance and the huge burst in it. It is mostly about control, especially in the arena. This guide is from my point of view on Subtlety Rogues, so please keep it in mind. Some of my arguments may not be correct so feel free to correct me.

Thanks

[009911]

pf my protection pvp pala will smash u rogues just no shance vs prot pala =D

[QuBro]

pf my protection pvp pala will smash u rogues just no shance vs prot pala =D

And then mage will come @ you and he will steall all your stuff and makes you fall on your knees

[009911]

ye ye if come mages i take my 6.3 k gs lock or my dk and then mages will be raped :D
---------------------------------
pala and shadow priest in arena just rlz u only will stay and watch what we do :D

[QuBro]

and then you woke up all sweaty and you will just think how weird that dream was

[QuBro]

Added "Arena Combos" as a request from "Subj3ct"

Thanks for the suggestion.

Enjoy :)

[Zahen]

I know the ArP % that is needed, but how much AP and Crit % should i have unbuffed?
And the two guides of Sub disagree regarding the off-hand speed, one says 1.5 this one says 1.4 is better, its confusing.

[QuBro]

I know the ArP % that is needed, but how much AP and Crit % should i have unbuffed?
And the two guides of Sub disagree regarding the off-hand speed, one says 1.5 this one says 1.4 is better, its confusing.

Well, as I know there is nothing like ap, crit cap that you should have.. But you will be probably somewhere around 5k ap. Maybe little bit less, maybe more... Also crit depends on your gear and talents. I have around 53% but Its because I changed every pvp item without agility to pve item that gives agility also.

The off-hand weapon depends about your play style. With 1.4 weapon have little bit better chance to proc cripling poison. Like I said cripling poison doesnt scale with the weapon speed, there is set poc rate which is 50%...

Another difference is, that with 1.4 weapon, Shiv ability cost little bit more energy than with 1.5 weapon. So its up to you which speed you will choose. I choose 1.4 because usually I dont have time for shivs, but I dont say im not using shiv at all, Its very usefull spell, especially in arena where you can control lets say focus target by focus shiving him. So I just prefer 1.4 weapon because of little bit faster procing of cripling... Also back days on retail, most of the sub rogues at high rating used 1.4 daggers so Im sure I roll the right.

I hope this explanation will help you.
-Qu

[Zahen]

Should i put +20 armor penetration rating, on all my gear? Even on daggers?
BTW, i talked with other rogue and he said that ArP is not useful against cloth/leather geared players and that AP stacking would be better. My question is rogues benefit anything from ArP stacking against cloth/leather or nothing?